VAG Group Petrol 2.0T - EA113 (Good) vs EA888 (Bad)

VAG Group Petrol 2.0T - EA113 (Good) vs EA888 (Bad)

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g7jhp

Original Poster:

6,959 posts

238 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
quotequote all
I've been looking for a 2.0T VAG Group car as a replacement family hack.

The list included Golf GTI, Audi A4 Avant, Audi S3 Sportback and Skoda Octavia all with the petrol 2.0T engines. When you start getting into the detail of which VAG models, variants and engines you soon run into the engine issues associated with some of the newer models.

There are a number of threads on the subject but rarely across the different VAG brands so I've tried to do a quick overview of models.

For those familiar with Porsche engine issues on the 996, 997.1, 986, 987.1 models between (1999 and 2008) before the Gen 2 engines arrived, it seems like a similar minefield of buyer beware.

So what's the difference between the EA113(2005-2008) and newer EA888 (2009 onwards) VAG engines?

The EA113 being the older belt driven engine is seen as good and reliable (if properly maintained).

Golf GTI Mk5 (2005-2008) - 197bhp
Golf GTI Mk5 Edition 30 & Pirelli Edition (2007-2008) - 227bhp
Golf GTI Mk6 Edition 35 (2011-2012) -232bhp
Audi S3 Sportback (8P) (2008-2012 - 265bhp
Audi A4 Avant TFSI 2.0T (B7) (2005-2008) - 197bhp or 217bhp on DTM Edition
Skoda Octava TFSI 2.0T Mk2 Pre-facelift (2005-2008) - 197bhp - Engine code BWA


The EA888 being the newer chain driven engine being seen as bad and unreliable due to timing chain tensioner failures and excessive oil usage.

Golf GTI Mk6 (2009-2012) - 207bhp - Engine code CCZA
Audi A4 Avant (B8) (2009-2015) - 207bhp - Engine code CDNC (from 2008-2013)
Skoda Octavia TSI 2.0T Mk2 Facelift (2008 onwards) - 197bhp - Engine code CCZA

This isn't an exhaustive list just Golf, A4, S3 Sportback and Octavia vRS models.

Hopefully this will help awareness of the potential pitfalls on these models. it's a heads-up which will allow you to read around and decide whether it's worth the risk or not.

We'll see how the next generation of EA888 engine runs in the Golf GTI Mk7 (2013 onwards), Audi A4 Avant (B9) (2015 onwards) and Skoda Octavia Mk3 (2013 onwards).

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
quotequote all
g7jhp said:
So what's the difference between the EA113(2005-2008) and newer EA888 (2009 onwards) VAG engines?
The main differences include:

EA888 gets variable cam phasing on the exhaust as well as intake. Intake only on the EA113.
EA888 is fully chained. EA113 connects the crank to the cam with a belt, and then a chain connects the exhaust cam to the inlet cam.
EA888 has vacuum operated intake manifold flaps. On the EA113 they are motorised.
EA888 gets a plastic sump, EA113 good old fashioned alloy.
EA888 has a weak crank seal which can leak if the PCV blows.
EA888 has a roller follower on the high pressure fuel pump. EA113 uses a tappet.
Plus a load of other minor changes, such as different coils, different MAF & airbox, etc etc.

BYD & CDL engines (Edition 30, S3) are the strongest EA113s and use the least oil. Better pistons, stronger block (cross bolted main caps), better piston rings, better cylinder head (stronger alloy) etc etc. S3s got different cams. Front mounted recirc valve instead of attached to the turbo, better intercooler (S3), bigger turbo discharge and throttle pipes etc etc. So many subtle changes.

Common EA113 issues include:

HPFP tappet wearing through if not serviced regularly, which can destroy the intake cam and the pump in severe cases.
Main thermostat stuck open (only 1 on the BYD engine, AAX has 2 I believe).
Cam chain and tensioner wear.
Front PCV failure (more so on modified engines, i.e. boost pressure increased)
Heavy oil consumption on AAX.
Injector failure.
Coilpack failure.
Blocked oil pump pick up pipe.
Turbo bearing/seal failure when pushed too hard with a remap, which is getting more common these days.
Split recirc valve diaphragms.

I'm not so familiar with the EA888 because there's a couple of generations of it, but the issues I'm aware of include:

Timing chain tensioner failure
Weak PCV, which can cause rear main crank seal failure
Intake flap diaphragm failure

It's too early to say if the EA888 is stronger or weaker than the EA113, but they both have their fair share of issues!








va1o

16,029 posts

207 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
quotequote all
I had the EA113 in my Mk5 GTI which had just under 100k miles on the clock. Seemed a solid engine but a little tappy at idle and the Diverter Valve needed doing, along with the obligatory cambelt change.

Given it's now quite an elderly engine I'd be more inclined to go with the EA888. The trick will be to buy one with a decent maintenance history, i.e. it's had some of those common issues already and documented evidence of the remedial work. Alternatively just get a warranty and then nothing to worry about!

ahenners

596 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
I'm running the EA888 in my Octavia VRS. It's a decent engine, bar the potential for chain cam tensioner failure, but it's smooth, torquey, and can get over 40mpg on a run without trying. It does use a bit of oil, I'd say about 0.3L per 1000 miles, but its well within "tolerance" and I've just got used to it. I've seen plenty of reports of EA888 using next to no oil, or using more than what I'm seeing. Same goes for EA113 too, so I think it's hit and miss and depends on how the first owner bedded the engine in from fresh.

I'd say go for the newer engine and have the chains and the tensioner replaced with the latest revision if it worries you that much. Mine's on 75k and mine hasn't been done (to my knowledge).

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Thursday 15th September 2016
quotequote all
Oh and obviously intake valve carbon issues apply to both engines too.

I think Gen 3 EA888 (Golf R) has port injection as well as direct injection to combat this.

Dandanfings

62 posts

96 months

Thursday 15th September 2016
quotequote all
ok I don't really agree with this, both engines have their downsides.
For instance the EA113 has cam follower issues and also suffers with probably the worst case of carbon build up of any engine made.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Friday 16th September 2016
quotequote all
Dandanfings said:
ok I don't really agree with this, both engines have their downsides.
For instance the EA113 has cam follower issues and also suffers with probably the worst case of carbon build up of any engine made.
It affects ALL direct injection petrol engines.

D'oh

72 posts

124 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
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Just had the timing chain tensioner failure on mine...

New engine needed. Joy

blade7

11,311 posts

216 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
D'oh said:
Just had the timing chain tensioner failure on mine...

New engine needed. Joy
How many miles had it done and were there any warning noises before it went ?

D'oh

72 posts

124 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
blade7 said:
How many miles had it done and were there any warning noises before it went ?
About 68,000 Miles done , but apparently mileage is irrelevant in some cases and that failure has been seen on some low mileage cars.

No warning at all on mine unfortunately , no rattle on startup or anything.

Mine is out of warranty at this stage , so having to fit the bill of nearly 7k Euros for a replacement.
The amount of reported cases of this happening are frightening , a quick google will confirm that.

In hindsight i should have just paid and fitted the revised part as a preventative measure.

MrBarry123

6,027 posts

121 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Don't assume that a car has the EA888 block fitted just because it is a 2009 onwards model. The EA113 is still present in the facelifted Scirocco R available today.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
MrBarry123 said:
Don't assume that a car has the EA888 block fitted just because it is a 2009 onwards model. The EA113 is still present in the facelifted Scirocco R available today.
It was also in the S3 until 2010. CDL engine code.

D'oh

72 posts

124 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Just to point out, i've had problems with the intake manifold flaps in the past too.

Had to replace the entire intake manifold

Tonsko

6,299 posts

215 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
It was also in the S3 until 2010. CDL engine code.
This is totally OT, but you seem to know the block codes and issues.

Are there any ageing problems that you know about in the Mk4 Golf R32 block? Thanks!

g7jhp

Original Poster:

6,959 posts

238 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
MrBarry123 said:
Don't assume that a car has the EA888 block fitted just because it is a 2009 onwards model. The EA113 is still present in the facelifted Scirocco R available today.
Yep, that's why I included the Audi S3 and Golf GTI Mk6 Edition 35. The list at the top wasn't exhaustive.

A quick search on Four cylinder EA888 petrols or Four cylinder EA113 petrols will give you a more complete list.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Tonsko said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
It was also in the S3 until 2010. CDL engine code.
This is totally OT, but you seem to know the block codes and issues.

Are there any ageing problems that you know about in the Mk4 Golf R32 block? Thanks!
MK4 engine code is BFH. MK5 R32 is BUB.

BFH (Bus Fare Home? lol) has only 3 weaknesses:

1) Chain wear
2) High compression causing pinking
3) Coil failure

2 was fixed with a dealer recall to reflash the ECU (known as the '6463 update'), 1 is fixable with new chain gear and 3....well, it's VAG coils isn't it, so replace as and when. Other than that the R32 engines are strong as outhouses if looked after.

The BUB engine got the revised chain gear from the factory from 2006.

HTH

Tonsko

6,299 posts

215 months

Tuesday 20th September 2016
quotequote all
Yup, grand, thanks. Mine's coming up to 130K, is there a mileage on the chain, or is it just keep an eye on it? Pretty sure 6463 has been done - remember checking years ago via the climatronic thing.

Then again, it's since been remapped, so *shrug*.

blade7

11,311 posts

216 months

Wednesday 21st September 2016
quotequote all
D'oh said:
blade7 said:
How many miles had it done and were there any warning noises before it went ?
About 68,000 Miles done , but apparently mileage is irrelevant in some cases and that failure has been seen on some low mileage cars.
I wasn't sure if you have the early engine or the later one, I've read a few reports of tensioner issues on the chain between the cams on the earlier engines.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

220 months

Thursday 22nd September 2016
quotequote all
Tonsko said:
Yup, grand, thanks. Mine's coming up to 130K, is there a mileage on the chain, or is it just keep an eye on it? Pretty sure 6463 has been done - remember checking years ago via the climatronic thing.

Then again, it's since been remapped, so *shrug*.
Only way to be sure is to borrow someone's VAG-COM and check measuring blocks 208 and 209 with the engine running. Chains within spec should read no more than -2KW. F'cked chains usually read -10KW or more. Beyond a certain point the ECU can no longer correlate the cam and crank position and will throw the EML. I think that number is around -12KW.



Tonsko

6,299 posts

215 months

Thursday 22nd September 2016
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Only way to be sure is to borrow someone's VAG-COM and check measuring blocks 208 and 209 with the engine running. Chains within spec should read no more than -2KW. F'cked chains usually read -10KW or more. Beyond a certain point the ECU can no longer correlate the cam and crank position and will throw the EML. I think that number is around -12KW.
Brilliant, thanks again!