im thinking of buying a mazda 6 mps
Discussion
te once they get miles on them IMHO.I wouldn't. Nice looking car ruined by an unreliable engine.
Rod's are made of chocolate and bend easily / put a rod through the block.
They rust
VVT systems are poor
Barely a week goes by without me hearing of one having engine failure. They do seem to have a loyal following, though most of those spend the money to fix them to not lose the money, in a round a bout way.
Rod's are made of chocolate and bend easily / put a rod through the block.
They rust
VVT systems are poor
Barely a week goes by without me hearing of one having engine failure. They do seem to have a loyal following, though most of those spend the money to fix them to not lose the money, in a round a bout way.
Heaveho said:
They seem to regularly have turbo related failures, I avoided them due to this.
The K04's aren't very good on this engine. They need a new banjo bolt fitting to reduce the amount of oil that gets fed to it as it is too much.The breather system on tuned cars isn't very good either. I know of a few that have gone up in flames.
Ahbefive said:
Yet I have a friend that had one for 2 years and 30k miles and it never gave him any issues.
Go on the MPSOC page on FB - There is a new post today about one that has bent a rod. I used to own one of these cars, I have friends with these cars and two of these have both had to be rebuilt due to failure in the last year or so.FSH doesn't mean a thing with these.
At that mileage for a Mazda 6 MPS you'd want to make sure that the VVT system and chain has been replaced at the very least.
Also check for rust - Mazda didn't do the best job of rust proofing on these and some are going very rusty.
There is also an air con pipe that goes rusty which stops this from working. My advice? If you really want to buy one, join the Official Mazda MPS Owners Club page on Facebook. Lots of helpful people and useful advice there. Plus cars come up for sale a fair bit so you'll likely get a better car than just buying one from Autotrader etc.
At that mileage for a Mazda 6 MPS you'd want to make sure that the VVT system and chain has been replaced at the very least.
Also check for rust - Mazda didn't do the best job of rust proofing on these and some are going very rusty.
There is also an air con pipe that goes rusty which stops this from working. My advice? If you really want to buy one, join the Official Mazda MPS Owners Club page on Facebook. Lots of helpful people and useful advice there. Plus cars come up for sale a fair bit so you'll likely get a better car than just buying one from Autotrader etc.
PetrolJosh said:
There's a lot of misinformation about these cars on the net. The engines are NOT "weak", they are "sensitive". If you do your research and know how to treat them, they will look after you. There's examples in the USA with over 150k on them.
Yes they are. The rods have very little on them. There are also examples over here with over 100k on them, but so many go pop it is hard to get away from the fact that they are not a strong engine. Shame as the 6 is a great looking car imo, especially in Velocity red, but ruined by that engine.PetrolJosh said:
First thing, get yourself on the MPS owners club website and check out the buying guide over there.
The Facebook page is better.PetrolJosh said:
I'll state the basics here:
Do NOT floor it under 3k rpm. The turbo is in a way "too good", and spools up too quickly for the engine. In low gears you should be ok, 4th and up you risk low speed pre-ignition occurring and resulting in bending your rods.
The map is too aggressive. The 2.0 TFSi engines found in Vag cars run a K04, they don't go pop. The MZR Disi engine produces too much torque low down which is what bends the rods.Do NOT floor it under 3k rpm. The turbo is in a way "too good", and spools up too quickly for the engine. In low gears you should be ok, 4th and up you risk low speed pre-ignition occurring and resulting in bending your rods.
PetrolJosh said:
Check the VVT chain and actuator. Look up a couple videos on the internet of what good and bad engines sound like and compare to the car you're looking at. The MPS engine is noisy by default due to the cam driven fuel pump, but an overdue chain job will be obvious to the ear.
The only way to really determine if the VVT is done it take the cam cover off, look for marks where the chain runs on the inside of it, paint it, put the cover back on and see chain is hitting it. As you correctly state, these engines are noisy anyway so pump and injector noise can be mistaken for VVT noise.PetrolJosh said:
Turbo seals are weak, but very easy to check. Leave the car idling for 10mins then rev it hard. If you're greeted by very thick smoke out the exhaust, the turbo seals are gone.
True, and a way to extend the life of the turbo is to fit a more restrictive banjo bolt for the oil feed. HEL do one.PetrolJosh said:
If the car has been modified, ensure the owner knows exactly what has been done and who has done it. If he doesn't know, walk away. These cars are extremely sensitive to modifications and only a very select few people can safely remap them.
In the UK there is only one person who can really map these properly. More in the USA. There are maybe 3 or 4 people who know how to build the engine properly as well. The fuel system is limited to around 400bhp due to the injectors so auxiliary fuel such as methanol is often added to take power above that. PetrolJosh said:
The full guide is on the MPSOC website, as well as plenty of other information and people in the know.
I would only use the Facebook page, lots more people seem to be on that.PetrolJosh said:
I disagree with the statement "so many go pop". I know of only a single stock mk1 MPS in the UK going pop due to the owners' wife flooring it in 5th while doing 30mph. The rest of the MPS' that i've heard go pop can be attributed to modifications/poor driving/poor maintenance or multiple of these points. I accept I could be wrong, and if I am then fair enough, and I also accept you probably have more knowledge on the number of zoom zoom booms in the UK through the MPSOC FB page which I am not part of (yet).
The Mazdaspeed forums seem to indicate that the majority of ZZB's are indeed linked to low speed pre ignition events, with some causing instant failure whereas other engines may have actually carried on functioning with a bent rod for a few thousand miles before finally letting go. Again, these LSPI events can be linked to the attributes above or simply due to the inherent flaws associated with a direct injection turbocharged petrol engine. There's a few papers available online of studies into LSPI, quite a good read actually.
The MK2 3 MPS actually has revised piston heads which I and others suspect is to try and prevent LSPI events occuring. In one of these papers I saw, one of the proposed prevention methods was to introduce a raised crown on the piston which seems to have worked because I have definitely not heard of a single stock MK2 going pop, both in the US and in the UK.
Is it something you should worry about? Yes and no. Yes because obviously there's a chance it can happen and it's expensive, and the chances are higher in the MPS than in, say, a WRX Impreza or a Focus ST. Also no because it's still quite a rare occurance, but definitely something to be aware of. However, VVT and turbo issues are way more common.
As a former 6 MPS owner I'm sure you know all of this @TheAngryDog, but just putting it all here so OP knows.
@OP it is unfortunately difficult to recommend one of these as a used purchase. If you find one on the street you have no idea how it has been treated. The previous owner could've floored it in 5th at 30mph hundreds of times, and within 1k miles your engine could pop. On the other hand it could've been treated well and could last another 100k miles. In this sense it's no different to any other used car, but this is obviously more extreme.
Your best bet is to go through the MPS owners club as you know the car will have been owned by someone who knows what they're doing.
Many valid points. Every car has its faults. Focus STs have their liner issues under increased power as one example. The Mazdaspeed forums seem to indicate that the majority of ZZB's are indeed linked to low speed pre ignition events, with some causing instant failure whereas other engines may have actually carried on functioning with a bent rod for a few thousand miles before finally letting go. Again, these LSPI events can be linked to the attributes above or simply due to the inherent flaws associated with a direct injection turbocharged petrol engine. There's a few papers available online of studies into LSPI, quite a good read actually.
The MK2 3 MPS actually has revised piston heads which I and others suspect is to try and prevent LSPI events occuring. In one of these papers I saw, one of the proposed prevention methods was to introduce a raised crown on the piston which seems to have worked because I have definitely not heard of a single stock MK2 going pop, both in the US and in the UK.
Is it something you should worry about? Yes and no. Yes because obviously there's a chance it can happen and it's expensive, and the chances are higher in the MPS than in, say, a WRX Impreza or a Focus ST. Also no because it's still quite a rare occurance, but definitely something to be aware of. However, VVT and turbo issues are way more common.
As a former 6 MPS owner I'm sure you know all of this @TheAngryDog, but just putting it all here so OP knows.
@OP it is unfortunately difficult to recommend one of these as a used purchase. If you find one on the street you have no idea how it has been treated. The previous owner could've floored it in 5th at 30mph hundreds of times, and within 1k miles your engine could pop. On the other hand it could've been treated well and could last another 100k miles. In this sense it's no different to any other used car, but this is obviously more extreme.
Your best bet is to go through the MPS owners club as you know the car will have been owned by someone who knows what they're doing.
Edited by PetrolJosh on Thursday 22 June 21:14
There are definitely more going ZZB on the FB page. It is widely believe that an MPS when modified correctly has less risk of going pop than a standard one, due to the poor standard map. The main UK tuner of these (in terms of remapping) takes some of the risk out by reducing the advance low down to also reduce the torque, as torque kills the standard rods. At higher RPM's the risk is reduced so he can bring it back in.
ZZB comes in many forms, and a few cars have also gone up in flames after putting a leg out of bed due to oil hitting hot components. Running increased boost pressures can also pop the dipstick out and put oil over the engine, resulting in fire (happened to a mate of mine, he put it out quickly).
When modified correctly these are quick cars, no doubt about it. But that niggle would always be there for me. If you're going to by one used, buy one that has already had a forged engine built. There are 2 such 6 MPS's at the moment on the FB page around the £6k to £7k mark. Forged doesn't mean bullet proof though. A few forged cars have also gone bang, but this is mainly because of other failures such as an issue with a methanol injector.
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