Golf R engine blown
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Um you have to notify DVLA of an engine block change... I'd dare say if OP reads his T&Cs in detail it might state what he can and cannot do.
OP have you got legal cover in your house insurance or motor insurance policy? If so it's worth calling them and seeing if there is any way you can mitigate this potentially huge cost (possibly you simply do not have the ability to pay for it who knows as such what happens in that case? Etc)
Is this something new? Why would the DVLA need to know about an indentical, replacement engine being fitted? If the OP bought a different engine then yes, DVLA would need informing but an identical engine? OP have you got legal cover in your house insurance or motor insurance policy? If so it's worth calling them and seeing if there is any way you can mitigate this potentially huge cost (possibly you simply do not have the ability to pay for it who knows as such what happens in that case? Etc)
xjay1337 said:
Quite so. In the real world I don't think it matters!
a decent used engine for <£1500 and <£1000 inc full service for replacement is a lot nicer than a 5 figure bill.
The thing is it isn't OPs car it is he lease company. a decent used engine for <£1500 and <£1000 inc full service for replacement is a lot nicer than a 5 figure bill.
They have to be informed (likely stated very clearly in the contract) - will they accept a used replacement? Likely not. But to go ahead without even consulting them might mean even more costs.
Remember a car sold with a replacement engine (even if it's brand new) is always worth less than one without - just he way the market is and frankly why should the lease company have to take a financial hit for a (appears to be unless otherwise confirmed) user error.
A used "eBay or similar" replacement engine is not fair wear and tear + it will have to be logged with DVLA so trying to do it and not inform them is not going to work.
Welshbeef said:
xjay1337 said:
Quite so. In the real world I don't think it matters!
a decent used engine for <£1500 and <£1000 inc full service for replacement is a lot nicer than a 5 figure bill.
The thing is it isn't OPs car it is he lease company. a decent used engine for <£1500 and <£1000 inc full service for replacement is a lot nicer than a 5 figure bill.
They have to be informed (likely stated very clearly in the contract) - will they accept a used replacement? Likely not. But to go ahead without even consulting them might mean even more costs.
Remember a car sold with a replacement engine (even if it's brand new) is always worth less than one without - just he way the market is and frankly why should the lease company have to take a financial hit for a (appears to be unless otherwise confirmed) user error.
A used "eBay or similar" replacement engine is not fair wear and tear + it will have to be logged with DVLA so trying to do it and not inform them is not going to work.
zedx19 said:
Welshbeef said:
Um you have to notify DVLA of an engine block change...
Is this something new?zedx19 said:
Why would the DVLA need to know about an indentical, replacement engine being fitted? If the OP bought a different engine then yes, DVLA would need informing but an identical engine?
Go and get a V5C. Doesn't matter what it's for. Flip it open. Look at field number P5, just beneath the VIN. The one that says "ENGINE NUMBER"...I just don't get the replacement engine DVLA/devalue thing. If you get the exact same engine, put it in and everything looks the same, no-one will ever know? How do you know the car you're currently driving has its original factory engine in? Every single second hand car you buy could have a replacement engine in, how do you check its original? I'm speaking from experience here as well, had a GTI-6 that needed a replacement engine, ran the car for 8 years afterwards, sold to a friend who ran it for 3 years, recently sold on again. Clocks showed 40k when I needed a new engine, new engine had 30k on so technically the engines done 10k less than showing on the clocks. I currently have a Mazda 5 I bought 2nd hand private sale, only upon it's first service did it become apparent it's probably on it's 2nd engine, there's tipex wrote on the top back of the block, impossible to see unless you take the undertray off and stick you're head up there.
zedx19 said:
Is this something new? Why would the DVLA need to know about an indentical, replacement engine being fitted? If the OP bought a different engine then yes, DVLA would need informing but an identical engine?
Because the engine no. is recorded on the V5 and is part of the identity of the vehicle. I changed the engine in a motorbike and informed them of the new engine no. although in my case it was a different displacement but they want to know anyway even if just a straight like-for-like replacement. They also ask for some evidence of the change, e.g. invoice from the garage etc. and this presumably could help with fraud/crime prevention?
That said I'm not sure if anyone ever checks engine nos when buying a car?, usually just the VIN but it's there to be checked if required.
I'd be surprised if an over-rev actually 'wrecked' the engine, more likely 'bounced' the valves into the pistons which although an expensive repair, shouldn't require a completely new engine...
catso said:
I'd be surprised if an over-rev actually 'wrecked' the engine, more likely 'bounced' the valves into the pistons which although an expensive repair, shouldn't require a completely new engine...
True, I would imagine it just needs a new block and head.. unless any part of the engine were shot into the turbo that is.Alot of people are being very high and mighty in this thread... if it were you in the same postion, would you honestly pay a 5 figure sum and notify the DVLA of the engine change?.... No, you'd be on ebay sourcing a used engine just like everyone else, run it until the end of the lease and hand it back.
zedx19 said:
I just don't get the replacement engine DVLA/devalue thing. If you get the exact same engine, put it in and everything looks the same, no-one will ever know? How do you know the car you're currently driving has its original factory engine in? Every single second hand car you buy could have a replacement engine in, how do you check its original?
Only way I can think of is to use V888 to get the entire V5C history, and look for a change in number.Dunno if HPI would flag it up, but I doubt it.
AllyBassman said:
if it were you in the same postion, would you honestly pay a 5 figure sum and notify the DVLA of the engine change?.... No, you'd be on ebay sourcing a used engine just like everyone else, run it until the end of the lease and hand it back.
If the dealer changed the engine, the number would need changing on the V5C, just the same as if the replacement engine comes from CoPart or eBay or wherever. The risk of the lease company spotting an engine number that doesn't match the V5C is far higher than spotting one that doesn't match the start-of-lease paperwork.B'sides, the car's history with VW now includes "Engine borked, not covered under warranty due to over-rev"... All it takes is the lease company to check that...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Thursday 5th October 13:04
AllyBassman said:
True, I would imagine it just needs a new block and head.. unless any part of the engine were shot into the turbo that is.
Alot of people are being very high and mighty in this thread... if it were you in the same postion, would you honestly pay a 5 figure sum and notify the DVLA of the engine change?.... No, you'd be on ebay sourcing a used engine just like everyone else, run it until the end of the lease and hand it back.
OP needs to read the contract. Alot of people are being very high and mighty in this thread... if it were you in the same postion, would you honestly pay a 5 figure sum and notify the DVLA of the engine change?.... No, you'd be on ebay sourcing a used engine just like everyone else, run it until the end of the lease and hand it back.
It isn't his car it's the lease company's car - if this were a house it's like you've f
ked the boiler and changing it for a used example (which might be great or itself be a bag of lies about its age miles usage etc). If OP does change the engine and not inform the lease company that's a punchy move - if they find out (they have a vested interest in getting the wear and tear value as high as possible /increase any exit fees for the user as possible.) it would be epically naive to think oh I'll get away with it.... note IF you did get caught potentially you'd be black listed from lease cars again?
The poster who said about different engines makes no difference.
1. Ever watched any classic car shows about "matching numbers" they make a big difference
2. Ever looked at the low £ range of cars on Autotrader? Yep engine change - take the F10 M5's &24k upwards now read and see how many are engine changes then look again at say £35k you'll find far fewer if any.
You might not think it makes a difference but a potential buyer might think reasons for engine failure
1. Didn't check the oil level... what else doesn't he check.
2. Boy racer over rpm on the engine means everything is far more worn (unless everything is replaced)
3. Like it or not it might be the style of driving of he individual causing excessive damage.
4. Might have been remapped /modified
5. Hmm plenty of others for sale without that engine change history why not govfor those instead as when I sell no doubt buyers will then have the same thoughts.
personally OP i'd be looking to see if the block itself is damaged,
if the blocks sound rebuild it, even to the point of buying a second hand engine for the components if its viable,
Although I very much doubt your block will be usable without some work. even then as long as the car goes back to the lease company running fine and with the engine no staying the same id say you'll be fine. if you start changing engines over your opening yourself up for a whole world of pain down the line
if the blocks sound rebuild it, even to the point of buying a second hand engine for the components if its viable,
Although I very much doubt your block will be usable without some work. even then as long as the car goes back to the lease company running fine and with the engine no staying the same id say you'll be fine. if you start changing engines over your opening yourself up for a whole world of pain down the line
Terminator X said:
If you have to foot the bill just get it rebuilt. £3-5k tops at a guess.
TX.
Block might be shot/ Conrad through the side = new engine TX.
If parts have connected then likely Turbo damage.
OP is it leaking oil on the floor at all be it drip drip or it's emptied itself on the floor?
Actually you say £3-5k "tops". Is that incl VAT.
Heck a lady at work has an XC60 D5 Turbo went on that it was £1.8k fox alone so the price you state is keen to say the least.
Welshbeef said:
The poster who said about different engines makes no difference.
1. Ever watched any classic car shows about "matching numbers" they make a big difference
Engine numbers don't "match" for most manufacturers. Some premium and US manufacturers used to give the same number to engine and chassis for one car - that hasn't happened for decades.1. Ever watched any classic car shows about "matching numbers" they make a big difference
AGK said:
The R records a hell of a lot in the ECU. They should be able to tell you the time/date/mileage that the "fault" has occurred at.
Did you over rev it?
not more than any other mainstream ecu.Did you over rev it?
It would show something like this.
11837 - Maximum Engine Speed Exceeded: Engine Warranty VOID!
P0219 00 [104] - -)
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 17
Mileage: <mileage usually in kmph>
Date: yyyy.mm.dd
Time: hh:mm:ss
Speed : xxx kmph
Revs: xxxx RPM
Welshbeef said:
Block might be shot/Conrad through the side = new engine
Obviously if he's properly bust his engine open then I don't see a way around talking very nicely to the dealer and swallowing a VW repair bill given that it'll need a new engine and therefore have mis-matched numbers on the V5 and new engine. Letting them know would be unavoidable because VW (who are always in possession of the V5 document on a lease vehicle) will need to contact the DVLA to change the number over. If the OP changes it over on the sly and it's discovered at any point in the future then you could leave yourself open to a big bill and possible/probable legal action.Welshbeef said:
Actually you say £3-5k "tops". Is that incl VAT.
End of the day it's just a 2.0 4-cyl engine that's used in a LOT of different vehicles, it's not exotic and from what I understand it doesn't contain any super expensive bespoke internals. If I couldn't get it rebuilt to standard specification for 3-5k including VAT then I'd be extremely surprised.AGK said:
The R records a hell of a lot in the ECU. They should be able to tell you the time/date/mileage that the "fault" has occurred at.
Did you over rev it?
OP went from 5th gear to 1st gear at 70mph apparently. Did you over rev it?
I'd have thought that would catapult the engine well into 5 figure RPM, although he said that VW have told him 8500 is the maximum they recorded... maybe that's when the car realised the damage was done and counting any higher was pointless!
The tricky bit - now they know about it - is that the lease company ask you to “indemnify us against the consequences of anything you do which invalidates the manufacturer’s warranties on the Vehicle”
I wonder whether buying it off them, fixing it then selling it might be the cheapest option
I wonder whether buying it off them, fixing it then selling it might be the cheapest option
essayer said:
The tricky bit - now they know about it - is that the lease company ask you to “indemnify us against the consequences of anything you do which invalidates the manufacturer’s warranties on the Vehicle”
I wonder whether buying it off them, fixing it then selling it might be the cheapest option
Assuming it's a 3+yr lease, then that's not going to be a great issue - because the warranty would have expired at the end of the lease anyway.I wonder whether buying it off them, fixing it then selling it might be the cheapest option
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