VW Phaeton - madness or great idea?
Discussion
My 2003 Audi A4 is now on its last legs, the engine is the 1.9tdi and will last to the end of humanity, but the body has seen better days.
I am a VAG fan and would love a tdi Audi A8. However, whilst researching these i noticed the VW Phaeton. When did these get so cheap?
Anything in particular to watch out with these? I am primarily interested in the 3.0 tdi and of course the auto.
Any help appreciated especially from those running a 07 or thereabouts model. Also does anyone know what the possible options on this car were, there seems to have been a plethora of options that are worth having....
I am a VAG fan and would love a tdi Audi A8. However, whilst researching these i noticed the VW Phaeton. When did these get so cheap?
Anything in particular to watch out with these? I am primarily interested in the 3.0 tdi and of course the auto.
Any help appreciated especially from those running a 07 or thereabouts model. Also does anyone know what the possible options on this car were, there seems to have been a plethora of options that are worth having....
I've been running a 2004 V10 Phaeton now for coming up to four years. When I first started to look at them opinions of non owners were scary to say the least. Then a long term owner of a V10 posted to give an honest actual account of of owning one.
You need to find a decent independent who knows what he is doing and buy yourself the Ross Tech scanning/reading unit well worth it for such a complex car.
Apart from buying the correct oil every two years and changing it I've only paid out for corroded PAS pipes at £500 all in.
Mine has all the toys including the cooled seats which are nice on a hot day but most cars a very well equipped.
I can't bring my self to sell mine despite buying a CL65 AMG to replace it I like the car that much. I've decided to run it for another 2 years then eventually replace it with an 2015 Audi S8 as I need a four door daily.
VW Vortex forum has a very good Phaeton section and some very knowledgable helpful owners.
You need to find a decent independent who knows what he is doing and buy yourself the Ross Tech scanning/reading unit well worth it for such a complex car.
Apart from buying the correct oil every two years and changing it I've only paid out for corroded PAS pipes at £500 all in.
Mine has all the toys including the cooled seats which are nice on a hot day but most cars a very well equipped.
I can't bring my self to sell mine despite buying a CL65 AMG to replace it I like the car that much. I've decided to run it for another 2 years then eventually replace it with an 2015 Audi S8 as I need a four door daily.
VW Vortex forum has a very good Phaeton section and some very knowledgable helpful owners.
Ray Singh said:
Thanks BIRMA - Its good to hear from someone who actually owns one.
I have the Rosstech stuff and am ok with doing most jobs myself. I want to find one with many options and running until the car gives in.
That's a good start, I think the drop links go after a while with it being quite a heavy car and that's just about all I've heard can be a problem. They are sort of old fashioned but every time I get in mine and it does it's party trick with the wooden covered air vents retracting I always say 'hello old friend'. On a long journey they are superb and it makes a 200 mile journey seem like a trip to the shops it's that relaxing. Mine does everything from runs to the local tip full of crap to being a University taxi. The big plus is that it is so anonymous I've taken mine into town to watch a concert many times and have yet to have it vandalised.I have the Rosstech stuff and am ok with doing most jobs myself. I want to find one with many options and running until the car gives in.
Apologies for being late to the party on this one.
I own two. A 2007 LWB 4.2 V8 (which is the rarest Phaeton type, engine-wise, in the UK) and a very early SWB 2003 W12 with the four-seat option which was a VW press car originally.
These are the best cars I have ever owned, they are simply superb - the V8 especially. Nothing wrong with the W12, as such, but it's earlier and the V8 is a more well sorted car.
The V8 I bought first and have had a little over two years. It was well looked after and has cost me little other than tyres, pads and discs on the front and regular servicing. I've done a good mileage and nothing shows any sign of breaking any time soon.
The W12 has cost a bit, unfortunately, but that's entirely due to it not being looked after properly or being mucked about with under previous owners - the bane of expensive cars with epic levels of depreciation, I'm afraid. The biggest bill was a gearbox refurb due to something mechanical being broken internally when I bought it. The part was cheap but removal and stripping of the box is a 16 hour job with obviously the same to put it back. The transmission fluid alone costs well over 100 quid! These transmissions MUST have the fluid changed every three years or 20K miles or they WILL break.
That car also had a defective ABS control unit which causes all sorts of problems, the ride height was screwed up (possibly due to some chav trying to lower it), broken connections causing one of the MAF's to not work and various other issues. All now pretty much sorted but it is as I write this getting it's suspension control arms replaced along with a rear caliper. It should be totally sorted after that.
Phaetons are a wonderful drive especially with those big engines. The V8 is fast but the W12 is noticeably quicker and more raucous. They must be looked after though or they will cost big money. If you start with a properly sorted car then I wouldn't say that running them and keeping them properly looked after is particularly expensive though other than the obvious thirst for fuel. They aren't a Passat though so aren't 'cheap'. Early ones have more delicate electronics and are more prone to throwing up faults so keeping the main battery fully charged is essential. In my opinion Phaetons don't seem to like standing unused for long periods, especially early ones. Use them or keep them garaged with a battery maintainer attached.
Definitely have a read through the VW Vortex Phaeton forum - there is a huge amount of useful information on there.
Phaetons are magnificent cars and are greatly under appreciated.
I own two. A 2007 LWB 4.2 V8 (which is the rarest Phaeton type, engine-wise, in the UK) and a very early SWB 2003 W12 with the four-seat option which was a VW press car originally.
These are the best cars I have ever owned, they are simply superb - the V8 especially. Nothing wrong with the W12, as such, but it's earlier and the V8 is a more well sorted car.
The V8 I bought first and have had a little over two years. It was well looked after and has cost me little other than tyres, pads and discs on the front and regular servicing. I've done a good mileage and nothing shows any sign of breaking any time soon.
The W12 has cost a bit, unfortunately, but that's entirely due to it not being looked after properly or being mucked about with under previous owners - the bane of expensive cars with epic levels of depreciation, I'm afraid. The biggest bill was a gearbox refurb due to something mechanical being broken internally when I bought it. The part was cheap but removal and stripping of the box is a 16 hour job with obviously the same to put it back. The transmission fluid alone costs well over 100 quid! These transmissions MUST have the fluid changed every three years or 20K miles or they WILL break.
That car also had a defective ABS control unit which causes all sorts of problems, the ride height was screwed up (possibly due to some chav trying to lower it), broken connections causing one of the MAF's to not work and various other issues. All now pretty much sorted but it is as I write this getting it's suspension control arms replaced along with a rear caliper. It should be totally sorted after that.
Phaetons are a wonderful drive especially with those big engines. The V8 is fast but the W12 is noticeably quicker and more raucous. They must be looked after though or they will cost big money. If you start with a properly sorted car then I wouldn't say that running them and keeping them properly looked after is particularly expensive though other than the obvious thirst for fuel. They aren't a Passat though so aren't 'cheap'. Early ones have more delicate electronics and are more prone to throwing up faults so keeping the main battery fully charged is essential. In my opinion Phaetons don't seem to like standing unused for long periods, especially early ones. Use them or keep them garaged with a battery maintainer attached.
Definitely have a read through the VW Vortex Phaeton forum - there is a huge amount of useful information on there.
Phaetons are magnificent cars and are greatly under appreciated.
Ray Singh said:
AJL308 - thank you for the update.
Is the V6 TDI worth entertaining? What sort of MPG do these give?
My Audi A4 is currently showing 200k miles and is overdue a cambelt. I recently bought a B3 3.3 Alpina as an investment, but am thinking of swapping out the Audi for a Phaeton.
Depends what you want it for - if it's a regular driver the V6 diesel is the more sensible choice. If it's basically a toy with a bit of investment potential (a small bit, admittedly) then go for the bigger engined ones. I'd have a V10 diesel tomorrow but I have no more space on my drive. Because they are rare you occasionally notice the same car popping up for sale from time to time and there are one or two very well looked after V10's around. There is a black LWB one I've seen a couple of times which is specced so well it actually has 240v three pin sockets in the back the same as your house has! It was I think about six grand last time it was for sale. Is the V6 TDI worth entertaining? What sort of MPG do these give?
My Audi A4 is currently showing 200k miles and is overdue a cambelt. I recently bought a B3 3.3 Alpina as an investment, but am thinking of swapping out the Audi for a Phaeton.
The thing is that any repairs and running costs are still going to be about the same regardless of whether it's a V6 TDI or one of the big engine ones as they are basically the same car with the same complicated electronics, suspension, etc, etc so you may as well get a big one if you are doing a limited mileage.
The V8 presently is giving me about 20-21mpg which is up from around 18-19 since I had a gearbox fluid change done. The W12 16-18mpg if I recall but it's a while since I've used it and I haven't had the opportunity to do a long run with it being totally fault free. I'm hopefully doing a run in the W12 from the North East to Norfolk and back up via Manchester and Cumbria over Sunday and Monday so I should be able to report back in more detail next week.
I mentioned investment potential before; in the context vehicle history, and the history of Bentley Motors specifically, I think the Phaeton is very significant. The story was always put about that the Phaeton was VW's failed attempt to enter the ultra-luxury market in part to get back at Mercedes for intruding into it's territory by bringing out the compact A Class. I never bought that story. VW had recently bought Bentley, a company with ageing (very ageing) products and no money to develop new ones. Piling money into Bentley from VW would never work because a small volume maker would never sell enough cars to pay the interest, let alone the loan its self. So, VW developed the Phaeton as it's own car and basically gave the design to Bentley who re-bodied it and called it the Continental. I don't believe that VW expected it to sell as few units as it did but I don't think they were especially bothered by the fact.
People have said that the Continental GT was the car which saved Bentley Motors. That's not true - the VW Phaeton was the car which saved Bentley Motors and I think well looked after Phaetons with the big engines are likely to see a reasonable appreciation among people who are really into cars. For a while now decent, well sorted W12's have been very rare to the market and have been on and off the likes of Ebay in only a few days. I think the last one I actually saw for sale was mine. You are essentially getting a Bentley for a quarter of the price of what you'd pay for a reasonable similar age Continental GT or Flying Spur. Bodywork and turbo chargers aside they are essentially identical.
I was meaning to post this last time but forgot; my V8 was previously on Piston Heads some years back https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/spotted...
Edit: There's currently a potentially nice V8 on Ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Phaeton-4-2-V8-Long-.... It's been on before so may have more issues then the seller states but could be a very good buy. It's a very rare car - 14 V8 Phaetons currently registered!
Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 2nd August 16:11
We came so close to getting a phaeton. Facelifts were coming into our budgets, and those ones looked very modern and in line with current Volkswagen styling. Only reason why we didn't purchase was the fact that this was a diesel, the petrol V6 was a bit slow for our needs and thus couldn't justify owning one for it to do only 2k miles per year. These are known to be very comfortable cars, Clarkson was known for really liking these cars. They normally have great equipment levels and overall pleasant and rare cars to own.
A V6 TDI model would be akin to an A6 in running costs. These cars are certainly much cheaper to own than an X5, and the list on the X5 is cheaper. I would only say it is expensive to run when we talk about the V10 TDI or the W12, as they both guzzle fuel and repairs are engine out if the issue can't be accessed.
Overall, I would go for one. I believe it to be one of the best luxury cars ever made. It is such a shame that these weren't sold in higher numbers, badge snobbery is simply to blame for . There is a reason why VAG used this car as the basis for their successful Bentley Continental - the press releases when this car was released used to talk about how the car could do 155mph at a steady 21 degrees on the AC.
A V6 TDI model would be akin to an A6 in running costs. These cars are certainly much cheaper to own than an X5, and the list on the X5 is cheaper. I would only say it is expensive to run when we talk about the V10 TDI or the W12, as they both guzzle fuel and repairs are engine out if the issue can't be accessed.
Overall, I would go for one. I believe it to be one of the best luxury cars ever made. It is such a shame that these weren't sold in higher numbers, badge snobbery is simply to blame for . There is a reason why VAG used this car as the basis for their successful Bentley Continental - the press releases when this car was released used to talk about how the car could do 155mph at a steady 21 degrees on the AC.
OK, update Re; fuel economy...
Newcastle to Hunstanton, Norfolk in the W12. Car displaying just shy of 22mpg! The qualifier to that though is that the air-con decided to not work for the majority of the journey. Having said that when I moved it across the car park just after getting here it decided to work again!!! The joys of owning a high-end car that's been standing doing nothing for months!
Seriously - just get one. They're staggering!!!
Newcastle to Hunstanton, Norfolk in the W12. Car displaying just shy of 22mpg! The qualifier to that though is that the air-con decided to not work for the majority of the journey. Having said that when I moved it across the car park just after getting here it decided to work again!!! The joys of owning a high-end car that's been standing doing nothing for months!
Seriously - just get one. They're staggering!!!
Just spotted this yesterday. Identical to mine and registered at the same time. Another VW press car like mine. Needs to be bought by someone who will use it to prevent some muppet breaking it for the engine. I'm coming very close to bidding!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
It was used for pics in an Auto Express article back in the day.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/phaeton/15...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
It was used for pics in an Auto Express article back in the day.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/phaeton/15...
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