Golf R 7.5 DSG - what a miserable gearbox
Discussion
I have the six speed in my Golf R (and had the same box in my previous TT). Absolutely love it - the OP is experiencing the side effect of the box trying to be 'economical' in 'D' mode when driving around town.
On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Lucas Ayde said:
assuming you have set the car up in 'Eco' mode in the first place, they only go into 'coast' mode (i.e. neutral) if you are neither pressing the accelerator nor brake. As soon as you press the brake pedal, it goes back into gear and stays in gear until you give it a quick blip of the accelerator, so the car is always in gear when braking.
Indeed. 
Lucas Ayde said:
I agree that coasting mode is a pain in the backside though and results in it feeling like the accelerator is connected via a rubber band when driving on a regular road, with the box going into neutral and revs dropping to idle every time you take your foot off the gas. Aside from feeling disconcerting, it's downright dangerous if you need power immediately.
I can't think of any situation where you would be in Eco mode and need power immediately and unexpectedly, and where the lack of it would be dangerous. If you anticipate needing power immediately, say approaching a junction or roundabout which may or may not be clear, then a quick tug of the gear lever into Sport mode, or a brush of the brakes or throttle, cancels Eco. It's all about anticipation and modifying your driving style based on the mode you have the car in.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 8th January 15:11
I appreciate it's a different box (7 speed dry clutch) but the DSG in my MK7 Golf 1.4 TSI ACT is less smooth than that in my 30 year old Merc SL with a torque converter, in particular at low speeds.
For example pulling away at low speeds onto a roundabout for the uninitiated I'd say it's borderline dangerous. A great all rounder with 46MPG over 85k miles, but the box is the single most disappointing thing. If I get another auto as a daily I'll look to a regular torque converter.
For example pulling away at low speeds onto a roundabout for the uninitiated I'd say it's borderline dangerous. A great all rounder with 46MPG over 85k miles, but the box is the single most disappointing thing. If I get another auto as a daily I'll look to a regular torque converter.
I have the eco coast mode on my 7 speeder and whilst it does increase your MPG, I can’t help but feeling that you just be increasing wear in the clutch plates as they are re-engaged (even though it must engine speed match).
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
A900ss said:
I have the eco coast mode on my 7 speeder and whilst it does increase your MPG, I can’t help but feeling that you just be increasing wear in the clutch plates as they are re-engaged (even though it must engine speed match).
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
To be fair eco mode in BMW’s with the ZF8 box is equally awful, it makes the car feel broken with about 25% throttle response and the weird feeling of it constantly trying to pull the clutch in and finally in my experience fuel economy is only marginally better than the default D mode. The ZF8 box is lovely in D though, it changes so quietly and smoothly at any speed and will kick down very quickly but smoothly on a moderate throttle input. If the Golf could use the ZF8 box, I’m sure it would be fantastic.As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
Scobblelotcher said:
A900ss said:
I have the eco coast mode on my 7 speeder and whilst it does increase your MPG, I can’t help but feeling that you just be increasing wear in the clutch plates as they are re-engaged (even though it must engine speed match).
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
To be fair eco mode in BMW’s with the ZF8 box is equally awful, it makes the car feel broken with about 25% throttle response and the weird feeling of it constantly trying to pull the clutch in and finally in my experience fuel economy is only marginally better than the default D mode. The ZF8 box is lovely in D though, it changes so quietly and smoothly at any speed and will kick down very quickly but smoothly on a moderate throttle input. If the Golf could use the ZF8 box, I’m sure it would be fantastic.As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
aaron_2000 said:
Scobblelotcher said:
A900ss said:
I have the eco coast mode on my 7 speeder and whilst it does increase your MPG, I can’t help but feeling that you just be increasing wear in the clutch plates as they are re-engaged (even though it must engine speed match).
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
To be fair eco mode in BMW’s with the ZF8 box is equally awful, it makes the car feel broken with about 25% throttle response and the weird feeling of it constantly trying to pull the clutch in and finally in my experience fuel economy is only marginally better than the default D mode. The ZF8 box is lovely in D though, it changes so quietly and smoothly at any speed and will kick down very quickly but smoothly on a moderate throttle input. If the Golf could use the ZF8 box, I’m sure it would be fantastic.As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
I most like the stealthiness of the M135i/140i and in drive, it’s generally quiet (below 1/2 throttle) and driven like that just feels like it’s floating along thanks to its larger engine making peak torque at low revs and shifting gently through the gears. It’s really very relaxing when driven that way. I did over 600 miles in my car over Xmas averaging 42mpg and whilst it’s not designed for all out luxury, it’s quite relaxing to waft along in.
Scobblelotcher said:
I most like the stealthiness of the M135i/140i and in drive, it’s generally quiet (below 1/2 throttle) and driven like that just feels like it’s floating along thanks to its larger engine making peak torque at low revs and shifting gently through the gears. It’s really very relaxing when driven that way. I did over 600 miles in my car over Xmas averaging 42mpg and whilst it’s not designed for all out luxury, it’s quite relaxing to waft along in.
Very good description, I'd definitely agree! Always thought mine felt just like a baby grand tourer and was super relaxed over long drives. Bought it in Aberdeen and the drive back to Hertfordshire is probably the best I've ever done in the UK
Scobblelotcher said:
aaron_2000 said:
Scobblelotcher said:
A900ss said:
I have the eco coast mode on my 7 speeder and whilst it does increase your MPG, I can’t help but feeling that you just be increasing wear in the clutch plates as they are re-engaged (even though it must engine speed match).
As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
To be fair eco mode in BMW’s with the ZF8 box is equally awful, it makes the car feel broken with about 25% throttle response and the weird feeling of it constantly trying to pull the clutch in and finally in my experience fuel economy is only marginally better than the default D mode. The ZF8 box is lovely in D though, it changes so quietly and smoothly at any speed and will kick down very quickly but smoothly on a moderate throttle input. If the Golf could use the ZF8 box, I’m sure it would be fantastic.As I’ll be keeping this car north of 150k miles, I’m taking the ‘pay at pump’ approach and keeping it in D (or Eco via individual mode which doesn’t enable coasting) rather than ‘pay later’ in clutch packs.
I most like the stealthiness of the M135i/140i and in drive, it’s generally quiet (below 1/2 throttle) and driven like that just feels like it’s floating along thanks to its larger engine making peak torque at low revs and shifting gently through the gears. It’s really very relaxing when driven that way. I did over 600 miles in my car over Xmas averaging 42mpg and whilst it’s not designed for all out luxury, it’s quite relaxing to waft along in.
Lucas Ayde said:
I have the six speed in my Golf R (and had the same box in my previous TT). Absolutely love it - the OP is experiencing the side effect of the box trying to be 'economical' in 'D' mode when driving around town.
On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Or...................On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Have a box that only ever changes when you want,
Engages the clutch exactly as and when you want,
Doesnt have multiple modes in an attempt to satisfy what it thinks you want but has infinite modes that always match what you want
Instantly flicks from ECO to Sport as fast as you can think
You know what type of box I mean
Gary C said:
Lucas Ayde said:
I have the six speed in my Golf R (and had the same box in my previous TT). Absolutely love it - the OP is experiencing the side effect of the box trying to be 'economical' in 'D' mode when driving around town.
On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Or...................On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Have a box that only ever changes when you want,
Engages the clutch exactly as and when you want,
Doesnt have multiple modes in an attempt to satisfy what it thinks you want but has infinite modes that always match what you want
Instantly flicks from ECO to Sport as fast as you can think
You know what type of box I mean
Funk said:
Gary C said:
Lucas Ayde said:
I have the six speed in my Golf R (and had the same box in my previous TT). Absolutely love it - the OP is experiencing the side effect of the box trying to be 'economical' in 'D' mode when driving around town.
On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Or...................On the open road this isn't a problem as the box changes in response to your inputs (a heavier foot on the accelerator results in it holding gears longer) but when you are trundling around in urban traffic it will have you in sixth gear by 38mph if it can, resulting in some rather uninspiring throttle response. I'd imagine that the seven speed has similar tendancies.
You can get much better response for urban driving by either selecting 'S' mode (which will result in much higher revs/ noise/ petrol consumption and be a bit jerkier on the changes) or just changing the gears yourself on the flappy paddles. Or just accept that if you are in urban traffic conditions you don't want to be whizzing around like a scalded cat.
Have a box that only ever changes when you want,
Engages the clutch exactly as and when you want,
Doesnt have multiple modes in an attempt to satisfy what it thinks you want but has infinite modes that always match what you want
Instantly flicks from ECO to Sport as fast as you can think
You know what type of box I mean
I think if my daily commute had any start stop traffic, I can see an Auto/DSG might be ok as the clutch in my 911 would be a bit of a pain, but actually my 1.0 polo's clutch is so easy, its actually fine, even in stop/start
But mainly, the roads are empty when i drive too and from work, which is nice.
I think the coasting in Eco Mode is one of the better aspects of the DSG - On a long motorway run it really helps the economy over 'Normal'.
On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Funk said:
As my daily driver, you couldn't pay me to go back to a manual box in a car now.
I don't commute any more, but when I did I had manual boxes. If I'd had a Porsche GT3, I might have found it a pain, but I can't ever recall finding a manual a problem.On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 9th January 15:41
marcosgt said:
I don't commute any more, but when I did I had manual boxes. If I'd had a Porsche GT3, I might have found it a pain, but I can't ever recall finding a manual a problem.
On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Without wanting to side track this thread into a manual vs auto thread which I'm sure has been done to death.On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 9th January 15:41
In many respects I agree, though I do see the advantages of a (decent) auto for commuting/heavy trafficked areas - it's why I got my DSG equipped Golf for the past 85k/4 years.
I just wish you could have the best of both worlds, manual when you want and flick it to auto for the heavy stuff. In my opinion flappy paddles simply don't meet the interaction of manual in any way shape or form, it's why modern supercars really don't interest me in the slightest.
acme said:
marcosgt said:
I don't commute any more, but when I did I had manual boxes. If I'd had a Porsche GT3, I might have found it a pain, but I can't ever recall finding a manual a problem.
On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Without wanting to side track this thread into a manual vs auto thread which I'm sure has been done to death.On the odd occasion I drive my wife's manual car these days, it's a pleasure! Changing gear is one of the few parts of driving you can enjoy anytime - I can't really see why anyone who enjoys 'driving' (for the sake of it - I'm assuming most here do), would easily give it up willingly...
Still think I'll be looking for a manual again next car.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 9th January 15:41
In many respects I agree, though I do see the advantages of a (decent) auto for commuting/heavy trafficked areas - it's why I got my DSG equipped Golf for the past 85k/4 years.
I just wish you could have the best of both worlds, manual when you want and flick it to auto for the heavy stuff. In my opinion flappy paddles simply don't meet the interaction of manual in any way shape or form, it's why modern supercars really don't interest me in the slightest.
If my commute was 40 minutes of flowing A- or B-roads across the hills somewhere then perhaps I'd relish a manual again but as my commute is what it is, a manual is - in my case - very much the wrong tool for the job.
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 9th January 17:04
I've had DSG gearbox equipped cars for past 10 years or so, though over 3 cars:
197hp Leon FR had the 6 speed: mechatronics failed after 2 years (warranty) otherwise was reliable, quick and smooth when moving forwards. Reverse was jumpy from new, never got any worse over nearly 8 years.
2016 Golf R estate from new, 6 speed: No issues with it, smooth going forward and backwards (useful), quick and adapted well to my driving.
2018 Golf R estate from new, 7 speed: Massive backwards step on the 6 speed. I get better fuel economy but it's constantly up and down the gears and makes the car feel slow. If you drive gently it's great, but it's a Golf R...
197hp Leon FR had the 6 speed: mechatronics failed after 2 years (warranty) otherwise was reliable, quick and smooth when moving forwards. Reverse was jumpy from new, never got any worse over nearly 8 years.
2016 Golf R estate from new, 6 speed: No issues with it, smooth going forward and backwards (useful), quick and adapted well to my driving.
2018 Golf R estate from new, 7 speed: Massive backwards step on the 6 speed. I get better fuel economy but it's constantly up and down the gears and makes the car feel slow. If you drive gently it's great, but it's a Golf R...
As stated earlier I have had both a 6 speed and a 7 speed dsg. I dont have any of the issues you guys mention. I have the car set in race mode but gearbox in normal. The car changes gear progressively and not ‘early’ eg smooth acceleration onto a dual carriageway tonight and it didn’t go into 6th until about 60 and 7th at 70 ish. I have done 14k miles in the last 9 months and have had maybe 2 or 3 occasions where I’ve felt the dsg wasn’t doing a great job of it.
Funk said:
My commute is 40 minutes, 9 miles each way of 30mph through-town stop-start traffic. In my last manual car (E36 328i) the amount of clutch-work actually caused me pain in my left foot which has disappeared since I had the auto E46 330Ci and subsequently the Golf with DSG.
If my commute was 40 minutes of flowing A- or B-roads across the hills somewhere then perhaps I'd relish a manual again but as my commute is what it is, a manual is - in my case - very much the wrong tool for the job.
And I think you've hit the nail on the head, it's horses for courses and all depends on what you want/need your car to do. My F31 335d has the ZF 8-speed auto and a very good gearbox it is too; it's also very well matched to the diesel engine and, even if there was a manual option, I think you'd be bonkers to choose it (which is probably one of the reasons why BMW don't offer one!).If my commute was 40 minutes of flowing A- or B-roads across the hills somewhere then perhaps I'd relish a manual again but as my commute is what it is, a manual is - in my case - very much the wrong tool for the job.
However, good as it is, for driver involvement in a more sporting car I would without doubt prefer a manual unless I was doing lots of stop/start work around town; for that reason the lack of a manual option on cars like the Golf R, M140i, etc, is a great shame IMHO.
Agreed with the 6 speed being better, especially when hooked up to the R32 engine. The two units feel like they were made for each other. Much less so in the 4 cylinder variants, imo.
I think most people can find at least one DSG scenario that doesn't sit well with their daily commuting. The OP's 1st-2nd gear snatchiness in traffic, and the blatant pauses when asking for full power are two I agree with.
If it were possible to remap the TCU to just stay in the chosen gear until told otherwise, with no auto upshifting and to default to manual mode when starting the car......I would be a customer for that.
Yes I realise that is essentially a manual box, but it's just clutch pedals I'm tired of. Happy to remain fully in control of the cogs. I just can't be doing with clutch pedals in heavy traffic anymore, especially with the uprated clutches needed for remaps.
Some of the DSG's jerkiness can be attributed to VW's choice of engine mounts. They've always been terrible, allowing far too much engine rock/slop which is felt as a nasty jolt in the cabin.
I think most people can find at least one DSG scenario that doesn't sit well with their daily commuting. The OP's 1st-2nd gear snatchiness in traffic, and the blatant pauses when asking for full power are two I agree with.
If it were possible to remap the TCU to just stay in the chosen gear until told otherwise, with no auto upshifting and to default to manual mode when starting the car......I would be a customer for that.
Yes I realise that is essentially a manual box, but it's just clutch pedals I'm tired of. Happy to remain fully in control of the cogs. I just can't be doing with clutch pedals in heavy traffic anymore, especially with the uprated clutches needed for remaps.
Some of the DSG's jerkiness can be attributed to VW's choice of engine mounts. They've always been terrible, allowing far too much engine rock/slop which is felt as a nasty jolt in the cabin.
Edited by rottenegg on Monday 28th January 17:04
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