110k miles S3. Silly to chip it?

[UpTheIron]

As per the title really.

My 2002 S3 (225) is just run in at 110k miles. Frankly I'm getting a bit bored of it but can't seem to find a good replacement at a sensible price that will still offer economy, practicality and a useful turn of speed.

So I thought I might treat it to a couple of upgrades, intially down the chipping / remap route.

Am I asking for problems given the mileage?

[zagato]

As long as the cambelt, tensioners, water pump have been done recently, plus tyres, brakes and other services are bang up to date... go for it!

[Scoop940]

Tough as old boots as long as it's serviced well..

[Welshbeef]

UpTheIron said:

As per the title really.

My 2002 S3 (225) is just run in at 110k miles. Frankly I'm getting a bit bored of it but can't seem to find a good replacement at a sensible price that will still offer economy, practicality and a useful turn of speed.

So I thought I might treat it to a couple of upgrades, intially down the chipping / remap route.

Am I asking for problems given the mileage?

How much is the car worth 02 S3 225?

[Fidgits]

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

[Welshbeef]

Fidgits said:

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

So this car is an 02/03 which currently has 110k given ave milage c15k in 2 years time it will be an 8 year old car with 140k on it - will the price suddenly drop from 8k to £2-3k??

[Fidgits]

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

So this car is an 02/03 which currently has 110k given ave milage c15k in 2 years time it will be an 8 year old car with 140k on it - will the price suddenly drop from 8k to £2-3k??

doubtful.

where are you getting the 2-3k from?

[Welshbeef]

Fidgits said:

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

So this car is an 02/03 which currently has 110k given ave milage c15k in 2 years time it will be an 8 year old car with 140k on it - will the price suddenly drop from 8k to £2-3k??

doubtful.

where are you getting the 2-3k from?

Well the S3 would have cost circa £25k when new and by 2010 it will be 8 years old and with min 140k on it. Surely the demand for such a vehicle will drop significantly due to its milage. Im guessing that by that sort of milage new suspension/springs/clutch/rad/turbo/ball joints/swivel joints and also with the milage it will look "worn".
Also realistically how many more years @15k a year will be left in a 225 1.8T Vag given its on 140k & 8 years old? Also as it is a sports model it will more likely than not have been driven harder than an average car thus higher wear.

Realistically how much would you pay for an 8 year old S3 with 140k on it?

If say it will last say until 200k then thats 4 years (12 year old car) and clearly by that age will be worthless.

[UpTheIron]

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

So this car is an 02/03 which currently has 110k given ave milage c15k in 2 years time it will be an 8 year old car with 140k on it - will the price suddenly drop from 8k to £2-3k??

doubtful.

where are you getting the 2-3k from?

Well the S3 would have cost circa £25k when new and by 2010 it will be 8 years old and with min 140k on it. Surely the demand for such a vehicle will drop significantly due to its milage. Im guessing that by that sort of milage new suspension/springs/clutch/rad/turbo/ball joints/swivel joints and also with the milage it will look "worn".
Also realistically how many more years @15k a year will be left in a 225 1.8T Vag given its on 140k & 8 years old? Also as it is a sports model it will more likely than not have been driven harder than an average car thus higher wear.

Realistically how much would you pay for an 8 year old S3 with 140k on it?

If say it will last say until 200k then thats 4 years (12 year old car) and clearly by that age will be worthless.

Where did the £2/3k figure come from? And what does it have to do with the original question?

It's pretty unlikely that any car that is currently worth 33% of it's original purchase price will lose that much (another 66%) over a further two years assuming average-ish miles and condition etc.

But offer me the choice of a car with 110k on it, or one that is two years older with 140k on it for a third of the price, I'll take the 140k one every time.

But please, everyone else keep buying those new and nearly new, low miles cars. Thank you for taking the depreciation hit.

[somouk]

Don't underestimate how long a well maintained VAG car will go on for.

I know boys running 150k engines that have been remapped from 3 weeks old.

You do however need to keep on top of things and make sure it is serviced perfectly, a VAG service history is not always best in this case, a reliable independant can often give better servicing results thana spotty YTS kid!

Regards
Mart

[Welshbeef]

UpTheIron said:

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

Welshbeef said:

Fidgits said:

dunno - high miles but still 8k there or thereabouts.

So this car is an 02/03 which currently has 110k given ave milage c15k in 2 years time it will be an 8 year old car with 140k on it - will the price suddenly drop from 8k to £2-3k??

doubtful.

where are you getting the 2-3k from?

Well the S3 would have cost circa £25k when new and by 2010 it will be 8 years old and with min 140k on it. Surely the demand for such a vehicle will drop significantly due to its milage. Im guessing that by that sort of milage new suspension/springs/clutch/rad/turbo/ball joints/swivel joints and also with the milage it will look "worn".
Also realistically how many more years @15k a year will be left in a 225 1.8T Vag given its on 140k & 8 years old? Also as it is a sports model it will more likely than not have been driven harder than an average car thus higher wear.

Realistically how much would you pay for an 8 year old S3 with 140k on it?

If say it will last say until 200k then thats 4 years (12 year old car) and clearly by that age will be worthless.

Where did the £2/3k figure come from? And what does it have to do with the original question?

It's pretty unlikely that any car that is currently worth 33% of it's original purchase price will lose that much (another 66%) over a further two years assuming average-ish miles and condition etc.

But offer me the choice of a car with 110k on it, or one that is two years older with 140k on it for a third of the price, I'll take the 140k one every time.

But please, everyone else keep buying those new and nearly new, low miles cars. Thank you for taking the depreciation hit.

2-3k was just as an example (no source for backup). So Im guessing that your assuming it may be worth say 66% of its current value in 2 years about £5k give or take so depn would be a min of £110pcm.

[UpTheIron]

Welshbeef said:

2-3k was just as an example (no source for backup). So Im guessing that your assuming it may be worth say 66% of its current value in 2 years about £5k give or take so depn would be a min of £110pcm.

But what was the point of the example? I wasn't asking how much it would be worth in a couple of years... What the car will or will not be worth in the future is of absolutely no consequence.

[Fidgits]

the fact is though, the 'S' and 'RS' models hold their value significantly better than there standard rivals.

Do an autotrader search for a 2002 Audi A3 1.8T and then look for a similar age/mile S3...

I see your point about mileage, but hey, a properly maintained car can go forever, yes there tends to be a stigma at 100k - but I have a '96 astra with 150k on the clock that flew through its last MoT needing nothing doing.

People in this country are too hung up on the number on the dial rather than the condition of the car!

[Welshbeef]

UpTheIron said:

Welshbeef said:

2-3k was just as an example (no source for backup). So Im guessing that your assuming it may be worth say 66% of its current value in 2 years about £5k give or take so depn would be a min of £110pcm.

But what was the point of the example? I wasn't asking how much it would be worth in a couple of years... What the car will or will not be worth in the future is of absolutely no consequence.

Well thats just silly - you have no concern about what it will be worth in the future??? There are times in a cars lifetime when its economical to change i.e. 5 years if bought form new thus avoiding new discs/clutch/suspension/Cambelts, then 8 odd years is another sort of time and youd probably be at least the 3rd owner big jobs are coming up and its just easier to change and let someone else do the work and get a newer car not needing any attention for a number o years.

If your thinking of chipping it at this age come resale time it will clearly be less appealing to the general market place for an S3 (as in all modified cars) & wear will increase due to the higher stress.

Think also increased ins + cost of upgrade + possilbe lower resale value + possilbe higher m,aintence costs during the period of this upgrade.

On a different note when chipping does this increase the CO2/Km? If so and given it moves it up a theroetical band shouldnt the owner of the chipped car pay more VED?

[UpTheIron]

Welshbeef said:

There are times in a cars lifetime when its economical to change i.e. 5 years if bought form new thus avoiding new discs/clutch/suspension/Cambelts, then 8 odd years is another sort of time and youd probably be at least the 3rd owner big jobs are coming up and its just easier to change and let someone else do the work and get a newer car not needing any attention for a number of years.

I see your point, but in my experience the cost of change and depreciation tend to outweigh this lot.

I could jump out of my current S3 and into a newer one. Lets say it costs me £4k to do this (after haggling, 12k for a late 2003 car with 60k).

In two years time it will be roughly the same age as mine. At best, by then it will be worth £8k (roughly same age and mileage as my current one, maybe a little less).

In that time, it will need a cambelt (mine won't), discs/pads (so might mine), experience tells me it will need a few suspension bits and pieces too (as I am sure mine will need more).

So they are going to cost roughly the same to run, unless something major goes wrong (which could happen on either, granted it is perhaps more likely than on mine).

However I've got the £8k I've saved - the £4k I haven't spent, and the £4k I haven't lost in depreciation. Granted you might want to offset the £3k difference in value of the cars as mine will depreciate too, so you could argue I've only got £5k to play with. Which will fix an awful lot.

I'm sure when I bought my S3, the guy selling it thought he was saving a fortune by selling it before the "big" 80k service. Except he had to price it accordingly, and the service cost peanuts compared to the depreciation during the his ownership.

Are you also one of these people who thinks a car is worthless once the manufacturers warranty has run out?

Edited by UpTheIron on Wednesday 31st October 12:24

[zagato]

In general a highly tuned car puts of a lot of people. However a sensible stage 1 (+30bhp or so?) chip tune by a top level respectable name (AMD etc) will be fine come resale. However taking it to +300bhp will put of most people as it screams "I have been caned to death!"

[Welshbeef]

zagato said:

In general a highly tuned car puts of a lot of people. However a sensible stage 1 (+30bhp or so?) chip tune by a top level respectable name (AMD etc) will be fine come resale. However taking it to +300bhp will put of most people as it screams "I have been caned to death!"

Well Id say Ave Joe would consider any engine bhp increase (not fuel additives etc say chipped/exhaust etc) to be something off the max power crew. Yes there are a lot of people of this webiste but that certainly doesnt represent the motoring public in general & in fact people here I would assume fall into a few categories - People who keep their car std in tip top condition (or even show condition)& only the best rarest model at that, others who generally buy the most performance car they can for their budget, those who are a little older and who crave a teenage kick and can now afford, those who modify to the extreme & of course those who have company cars and have to run "boring" cars due to tax & company restrictions but who enjoy a good drive. {Im sure there are other sub niches too}

However I highly doubt anyone who wants a car that goes from A-B reliably would even have heard of this site and they generally buy the bulk of UK cars & as such any tweaking to std would steer them clear of the car.


I wonder if people consider using better spec spark plugs & pads boy racer mods? Ditto using V Max etc?? Where is the threshold between boy racer chav, professional modifying, mild tweaking - better brake fluid etc??

[zagato]

Yes, that's true of the wider general market I guess

[Penguinracer]

I'd allocate a sensible budget for mods - say £2-3K - give it a tweek, enjoy it & flog it when you're ready to move on. I've been for a ride round the 'Ring in a 280 bhp TT & I've got to say it was no hairdresser's car - an impressive bit of kit which punched well above it's weight. An S3 tuned to 265 - 280 bhp would be a fun proposition.
Some people live their entire lives in fear of depreciation- "What spec should I order? What colour depreciates least?, At what mileage should I flog it? The face lift version is coming out now so I'd better sell my car!"
When it comes to cars I live by some very simple rules - but they're not for everyone but they work for me & fit in with my priorities:

(1) Generally all cars depreciate;
(2) Generally cars are NOT an INVESTMENT;
(3) Don't borrow money on cars - makes no economic sense to be hit by the double whammy!;
(4) You will never recoup any money spent on modifications;
(5) Modifications can make a car less saleable;
(6) Modify a car for your own satisfaction acknowledging (4) & (5) above;
(7) Buy, drive & enjoy the car you like & don't pay heed to its image or the opnions of others.

I've had a lot of pleasure out of cars which others would consider old bangers - but I don't care what they think!
If my old 951 can sprint round the 'Ring on new suspension & brakes & nail 170+ leptons down the 'Bahn on the way home all for less than 10K - am I a fool?

[Welshbeef]

Penguinracer said:

I'd allocate a sensible budget for mods - say £2-3K - give it a tweek, enjoy it & flog it when you're ready to move on. I've been for a ride round the 'Ring in a 280 bhp TT & I've got to say it was no hairdresser's car - an impressive bit of kit which punched well above it's weight. An S3 tuned to 265 - 280 bhp would be a fun proposition.
Some people live their entire lives in fear of depreciation- "What spec should I order? What colour depreciates least?, At what mileage should I flog it? The face lift version is coming out now so I'd better sell my car!"
When it comes to cars I live by some very simple rules - but they're not for everyone but they work for me & fit in with my priorities:

(1) Generally all cars depreciate;
(2) Generally cars are NOT an INVESTMENT;
(3) Don't borrow money on cars - makes no economic sense to be hit by the double whammy!;
(4) You will never recoup any money spent on modifications;
(5) Modifications can make a car less saleable;
(6) Modify a car for your own satisfaction acknowledging (4) & (5) above;
(7) Buy, drive & enjoy the car you like & don't pay heed to its image or the opnions of others.

I've had a lot of pleasure out of cars which others would consider old bangers - but I don't care what they think!
If my old 951 can sprint round the 'Ring on new suspension & brakes & nail 170+ leptons down the 'Bahn on the way home all for less than 10K - am I a fool?

Good points, I think firstly you must be comfortable inside the car and it fullfills all the needs you require out of a car i.e. basic shopping/lggage/passengers/sound system/garage size/ins budget. Above that then some people couldnt care less about performance while others do horses for courses, but noone would say buy a brillient car (assuming your not vastly wealthy) but pay £2/mile in depreciation (say).