Mk2 Golf GTi's...
Discussion
Hi all,
I am currently very interested in buying a MK2 Golf GTi.
I have a couple of questions that I'm sure you would be able to help me with -
1) I am struggling to find many 16v's for sale on the tinterweb. Does anyone have any links to any sites where I can view classifieds? I have tried the Pistonheads classifieds, eBay and Autotrader. Are there any specific VAG forums that I could try?
2) Ideally I would like a 16v, are there any disadvantages between the 16v and 8v, am I right to be looking for a 16v? I know they are more powerful but this isn't always the be all and end all is it?
Help appreciated!
Thanks
I am currently very interested in buying a MK2 Golf GTi.
I have a couple of questions that I'm sure you would be able to help me with -
1) I am struggling to find many 16v's for sale on the tinterweb. Does anyone have any links to any sites where I can view classifieds? I have tried the Pistonheads classifieds, eBay and Autotrader. Are there any specific VAG forums that I could try?
2) Ideally I would like a 16v, are there any disadvantages between the 16v and 8v, am I right to be looking for a 16v? I know they are more powerful but this isn't always the be all and end all is it?
Help appreciated!
Thanks
A well taken care of, late 16v 3 door is THE mark 2 to own. Not that I'm at all biased.
Forums, check out Club GTI and Edition 38 (main ones).
Both cars have their foibles - all are well documented and there are lots of friendly specialists out there.
Couple of quick ones worth checking on a 16v:
Idle when coming to a stop (hot)
Starting (warm/hot)
Starting & idle (very cold)
Smoke (hot idle, cold idle, hot full throttle)
The fuel system can give niggles and if not taken care of properly/thrashed the rings will wear. 2nd gear crunch fairly typical, worn bushes fairly typical unless the previous owner has spent money on sensible stuff rather than bling bling crap. Rusty door bottoms, under rear lenses, sunroof drains (inside front wing, viewable behind bonnet hinge area)...
There have been a few threads on MK2s lately so do have a prowl through on here.
Forums, check out Club GTI and Edition 38 (main ones).
Both cars have their foibles - all are well documented and there are lots of friendly specialists out there.
Couple of quick ones worth checking on a 16v:
Idle when coming to a stop (hot)
Starting (warm/hot)
Starting & idle (very cold)
Smoke (hot idle, cold idle, hot full throttle)
The fuel system can give niggles and if not taken care of properly/thrashed the rings will wear. 2nd gear crunch fairly typical, worn bushes fairly typical unless the previous owner has spent money on sensible stuff rather than bling bling crap. Rusty door bottoms, under rear lenses, sunroof drains (inside front wing, viewable behind bonnet hinge area)...
There have been a few threads on MK2s lately so do have a prowl through on here.
YO
Thinking of buying a mk2 - Very good choice sir. I to am slightly biased as i am on my 5th now.
8v VS 16v is one of the oldest most pointless arguments going. at the end of the day the 16v was top spec therefor it is clearly the best both in terms of specification ie electric windows/ central locking/ bigger brakes and of course more power and torque.
Some people rather the power delivery of the 8v which feels responsive but dies at 5500ish RPM where as a 16v feels very very slightly slow to pick up but once you hit 4000rpm you are off all the way to 7300 :-) To be honest the people who argue a 8v is better have never driven a 16v or if they have they have driven poor examples as 16v is noticably quicker.
You could spend a very long time finding a perfect example but believe me there are good ones around. looking on ebay there are - over priced distinctly average and overpriced poor condition and genuine ones. E38 and clubgti tends to have some well kept examples which are £2K + and tbh not always worth that. definatly have a look at a few different ones and do your homework on the spec lists and model years. only post 1990 G reg should have big bumpers. early pre 87 have smaller front windows and LHD windscreen wipers. Early 8v engines ran K-JET ignition the same as 16v where as later ones ran Digi ignition. I would suggest looking at pictures so you know what each looks like. Believe it or not people in the past have bought GTIs not knowing if it is 8 or 16v. 16v have 16v DOHC in rather large writing on the inlet manifold!!
personally if i was out to buy another one i would buy one with good bodywork as engines and interiors are fairly easy to get hold of and cheap. Be sure to check the arches, the plastic bodykit can hide all sorts of nasties, tailgates rot too as to bottom of doors and check the sills for damage.
expect to pay 1000-1500 for a tidy mostly original example. good luck!
Thinking of buying a mk2 - Very good choice sir. I to am slightly biased as i am on my 5th now.
8v VS 16v is one of the oldest most pointless arguments going. at the end of the day the 16v was top spec therefor it is clearly the best both in terms of specification ie electric windows/ central locking/ bigger brakes and of course more power and torque.
Some people rather the power delivery of the 8v which feels responsive but dies at 5500ish RPM where as a 16v feels very very slightly slow to pick up but once you hit 4000rpm you are off all the way to 7300 :-) To be honest the people who argue a 8v is better have never driven a 16v or if they have they have driven poor examples as 16v is noticably quicker.
You could spend a very long time finding a perfect example but believe me there are good ones around. looking on ebay there are - over priced distinctly average and overpriced poor condition and genuine ones. E38 and clubgti tends to have some well kept examples which are £2K + and tbh not always worth that. definatly have a look at a few different ones and do your homework on the spec lists and model years. only post 1990 G reg should have big bumpers. early pre 87 have smaller front windows and LHD windscreen wipers. Early 8v engines ran K-JET ignition the same as 16v where as later ones ran Digi ignition. I would suggest looking at pictures so you know what each looks like. Believe it or not people in the past have bought GTIs not knowing if it is 8 or 16v. 16v have 16v DOHC in rather large writing on the inlet manifold!!
personally if i was out to buy another one i would buy one with good bodywork as engines and interiors are fairly easy to get hold of and cheap. Be sure to check the arches, the plastic bodykit can hide all sorts of nasties, tailgates rot too as to bottom of doors and check the sills for damage.
expect to pay 1000-1500 for a tidy mostly original example. good luck!
aka_kerrly is spot-on. I've previously run (amongst several other fast VWs) a Mk2 8v GTI, and agree that there is a mountain of b
ks spouted in the 8v vs 16v Mk2 debate. The 16v feels like an 8v until 5500 rpm, as pointed out, after which the 8v tails-off noticeably whereas the 16v takes-off. The 8v GTI is not a bad car, it actually has a decent amount of grunt, but the 16v is the better engine.
FWIW, I preferred the non-PAS racks. More turns lock/lock, but I reckon the feedback was more detailed. 3dr vs 5dr will save a small amount of weight, as will lack of electrics, big-bumpers etc, but we're only talking a few kilos here. I do think the mechanical K-Jet injection on the 16v and early 8v gives better throttle-response than the electronic Digifant system on later 8vs. K-Jet can be truculent, however, if it is not set-up properly, or has any kind of particle contamination in the metering unit.
The bottom line was that IMO my '88 3-door non-PAS small-bumper K-Jet 8v comprehensively outdragged and outhandled a mate's mint-condition '92 'J' Mk2 8v Digifant big-bumper 5-door with PAS, leccy windows etc.
I also concur with plastic wheel & sill trims, they can conceal all manner of corrosion horrors.
To play with devil's advocate: for the money, have you considered a 16v Corrado instead?
ks spouted in the 8v vs 16v Mk2 debate. The 16v feels like an 8v until 5500 rpm, as pointed out, after which the 8v tails-off noticeably whereas the 16v takes-off. The 8v GTI is not a bad car, it actually has a decent amount of grunt, but the 16v is the better engine.FWIW, I preferred the non-PAS racks. More turns lock/lock, but I reckon the feedback was more detailed. 3dr vs 5dr will save a small amount of weight, as will lack of electrics, big-bumpers etc, but we're only talking a few kilos here. I do think the mechanical K-Jet injection on the 16v and early 8v gives better throttle-response than the electronic Digifant system on later 8vs. K-Jet can be truculent, however, if it is not set-up properly, or has any kind of particle contamination in the metering unit.
The bottom line was that IMO my '88 3-door non-PAS small-bumper K-Jet 8v comprehensively outdragged and outhandled a mate's mint-condition '92 'J' Mk2 8v Digifant big-bumper 5-door with PAS, leccy windows etc.
I also concur with plastic wheel & sill trims, they can conceal all manner of corrosion horrors.
To play with devil's advocate: for the money, have you considered a 16v Corrado instead?
Definately go for as original as possible visual wise. There are some worthwhile upgrades to brakes and suspension and nice wheels can be an improvement. Bodywork condition is the main worry with rust around wiper blanks, windscreen, filler cap and bottom of doors the main areas. Interiors can be cleaned up or replaced easily. Check for slack in drivetrain and steering. This might only be bushes which are an easy repair. Don'y worry too much with a small amount of smoke on start up if it soon clears. My 8v used to do this especially when parked nose down on a hill, its constant smoke under load which might indicate valve seal wear or worse. Don't be too concerned with mileage, very low mileage cars will go for strong money but a comprehensive history with receipts, will tell you if its been looked after. Mine had 132k when I bought it but had a full dealer history now sold unfortunately due to 3 kids and a hefty mortgage.
Good luck.
Good luck.
A late small bumpered 16v would be my choice.
Sold my one a few months ago now, beginning to miss it a fair bit:
Just really going to echo other people's points, get one which has been well looked after - you can really tell the good ones from the bad ones, if its been modded makesure they are tasteful and correctly done mods, check the usual places for rust, you'll probably find that some bushes will be worn - but they are cheap and relatively easy to DIY.
16v's should pull cleanly all the way to just over 7k rpm and should really get going just after 4k, if it doesnt there is something wrong.
2nd gear crunch is common but the gear linkage repair kit is about £15 off ebay, is easy to do and makes a real difference.
Just keep your eyes peeled and look for a nice honest example, to be honest I think Edition38 attracts a few dreamers in terms of unrealistic prices, but tidy examples pop up everywhere. There are always loads on PH.
Sold my one a few months ago now, beginning to miss it a fair bit:
Just really going to echo other people's points, get one which has been well looked after - you can really tell the good ones from the bad ones, if its been modded makesure they are tasteful and correctly done mods, check the usual places for rust, you'll probably find that some bushes will be worn - but they are cheap and relatively easy to DIY.
16v's should pull cleanly all the way to just over 7k rpm and should really get going just after 4k, if it doesnt there is something wrong.
2nd gear crunch is common but the gear linkage repair kit is about £15 off ebay, is easy to do and makes a real difference.
Just keep your eyes peeled and look for a nice honest example, to be honest I think Edition38 attracts a few dreamers in terms of unrealistic prices, but tidy examples pop up everywhere. There are always loads on PH.
speedtwelve said:
aka_kerrly is spot-on. I've previously run (amongst several other fast VWs) a Mk2 8v GTI, and agree that there is a mountain of bks spouted in the 8v vs 16v Mk2 debate. The 16v feels like an 8v until 5500 rpm, as pointed out, after which the 8v tails-off noticeably whereas the 16v takes-off. The 8v GTI is not a bad car, it actually has a decent amount of grunt, but the 16v is the better engine.
FWIW, I preferred the non-PAS racks. More turns lock/lock, but I reckon the feedback was more detailed. 3dr vs 5dr will save a small amount of weight, as will lack of electrics, big-bumpers etc, but we're only talking a few kilos here. I do think the mechanical K-Jet injection on the 16v and early 8v gives better throttle-response than the electronic Digifant system on later 8vs. K-Jet can be truculent, however, if it is not set-up properly, or has any kind of particle contamination in the metering unit.
The bottom line was that IMO my '88 3-door non-PAS small-bumper K-Jet 8v comprehensively outdragged and outhandled a mate's mint-condition '92 'J' Mk2 8v Digifant big-bumper 5-door with PAS, leccy windows etc.
I also concur with plastic wheel & sill trims, they can conceal all manner of corrosion horrors.
To play with devil's advocate: for the money, have you considered a 16v Corrado instead?
Thanks!ks spouted in the 8v vs 16v Mk2 debate. The 16v feels like an 8v until 5500 rpm, as pointed out, after which the 8v tails-off noticeably whereas the 16v takes-off. The 8v GTI is not a bad car, it actually has a decent amount of grunt, but the 16v is the better engine.FWIW, I preferred the non-PAS racks. More turns lock/lock, but I reckon the feedback was more detailed. 3dr vs 5dr will save a small amount of weight, as will lack of electrics, big-bumpers etc, but we're only talking a few kilos here. I do think the mechanical K-Jet injection on the 16v and early 8v gives better throttle-response than the electronic Digifant system on later 8vs. K-Jet can be truculent, however, if it is not set-up properly, or has any kind of particle contamination in the metering unit.
The bottom line was that IMO my '88 3-door non-PAS small-bumper K-Jet 8v comprehensively outdragged and outhandled a mate's mint-condition '92 'J' Mk2 8v Digifant big-bumper 5-door with PAS, leccy windows etc.
I also concur with plastic wheel & sill trims, they can conceal all manner of corrosion horrors.
To play with devil's advocate: for the money, have you considered a 16v Corrado instead?
I've never been a massive fan of the Corrado's. I've always liked Mk2's, it's an itch I've got to scratch!
Something like this would do me fine - http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/454521.htm
marcgti6 said:
That looked really tidy Matthew, if you don't mind me asking how much did you sell it for?
£1500, which I think was about right.Just seen that Oak Green one you have linked too, sounds like there isnt much history with the car, overpriced imo - its carrying the Oak Green Premium!
This is nice, ad is quite old though so may have sold:
http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/399970.htm
This one sounds ok too, mileage is a bit high though:
http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/517244.htm
Seems that prices have creeped up a bit since I sold mine a few months ago...
http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/399970.htm
This one sounds ok too, mileage is a bit high though:
http://pistonheads.com/classifieds/517244.htm
Seems that prices have creeped up a bit since I sold mine a few months ago...
Prices gone up due to scene Tax
The show season has started, and people are looking to prep one for some of the shows. Also going to some of these shows starts hankerings for all sorts of things, which drives the prices up.
The fact is, that there are plenty out there, so take your time. Its quite possible towards sept/oct to see the prices starting to drop slightly, but though not massively, there may be more to chose from.
If you can, attend some shows and walk around the public carpark. You sometimes find some gems hidden there.
Get ready for depreciation free motoring!
The show season has started, and people are looking to prep one for some of the shows. Also going to some of these shows starts hankerings for all sorts of things, which drives the prices up.
The fact is, that there are plenty out there, so take your time. Its quite possible towards sept/oct to see the prices starting to drop slightly, but though not massively, there may be more to chose from.
If you can, attend some shows and walk around the public carpark. You sometimes find some gems hidden there.
Get ready for depreciation free motoring!
Oh yeah another thing to remember is millage. DONT be put off by high millages as long as a engine has been maintained well ie regular services and crucially oil changes it will run for a long time.
I have a 1.8 16v with 200k and the head has never been off and the engine dyno'd at 140BHP which is bang on for a standard motor. I also had a passat 16v which had 240K on its original engine.
A good check to see how the engine is doing is to take off the lower oil breather pipe , its is right in the middle of the block below the inlet manifold on front of engine. Remove it and start the engine and feel how heavily the engine is breathing. If its like a gust of wind then the engine is starting to get a little tired but will run for a long time yet. Valvers do suffer a bit from worn piston rings which causes the engine to breath heavily and this can also lead to a gunk build up in the brether pipes especially if too thin oil is being used. This is also likely to occur if the owner only does short journeys and doesnt give the engine a good hiding now and again.
Oil leaks can be quite common too, those at bottom of the engine are likely to be a sump gasket or gearbox seal which are both straight forward to replace (leaky gearbox seal leads to slippy clutch feeling as well). Oil higher up the engine is likely to be rocker cover and or distributor, just remove the gap and check for residue. these seals are also easy to replace. Take a spark plug out and check for oil, oil on plugs can lead to very bad running and yet usually only caused by inner rocker cover gasket which is another cheap easy fix.
Cant think of much else... as i havent had any other problems with mine
I have a 1.8 16v with 200k and the head has never been off and the engine dyno'd at 140BHP which is bang on for a standard motor. I also had a passat 16v which had 240K on its original engine.
A good check to see how the engine is doing is to take off the lower oil breather pipe , its is right in the middle of the block below the inlet manifold on front of engine. Remove it and start the engine and feel how heavily the engine is breathing. If its like a gust of wind then the engine is starting to get a little tired but will run for a long time yet. Valvers do suffer a bit from worn piston rings which causes the engine to breath heavily and this can also lead to a gunk build up in the brether pipes especially if too thin oil is being used. This is also likely to occur if the owner only does short journeys and doesnt give the engine a good hiding now and again.
Oil leaks can be quite common too, those at bottom of the engine are likely to be a sump gasket or gearbox seal which are both straight forward to replace (leaky gearbox seal leads to slippy clutch feeling as well). Oil higher up the engine is likely to be rocker cover and or distributor, just remove the gap and check for residue. these seals are also easy to replace. Take a spark plug out and check for oil, oil on plugs can lead to very bad running and yet usually only caused by inner rocker cover gasket which is another cheap easy fix.
Cant think of much else... as i havent had any other problems with mine
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