Engine Choice for a Fast Road Mk1 Golf?
Discussion
The time has come to try and get my Mk1 Golf project moving again and I need to decide what to do on the engine front. The car is intended to be a low key/cheap/low maintenance fun car that I can enjoy thrashing the nuts off. It will be mainly used on the road so I want it to remain reasonably tractable, and generally I like torquey engines. I am trying to choose between:
1) Tuned 8V engine, probably increased capacity - quite like the idea of the 2.1L TSR engine
2) 16V conversion. I know these are pretty straightforward on a Mk1 and can be tuned for mucho power but wonder if it might lack torque based on my memories of my old MK2 16V.
3) G60 conversion. Like the idea of this but wonder if this is getting a bit involved and away from my cheap/simple principle
Anyone got any thoughts / experience of any of the above in a Mk1? Pros and Cons of the different options. Pitfalls to be avoided etc. Thanks in advance!
Chris
1) Tuned 8V engine, probably increased capacity - quite like the idea of the 2.1L TSR engine
2) 16V conversion. I know these are pretty straightforward on a Mk1 and can be tuned for mucho power but wonder if it might lack torque based on my memories of my old MK2 16V.
3) G60 conversion. Like the idea of this but wonder if this is getting a bit involved and away from my cheap/simple principle
Anyone got any thoughts / experience of any of the above in a Mk1? Pros and Cons of the different options. Pitfalls to be avoided etc. Thanks in advance!
Chris
Have only time for a short answer...
try the www.no-rice.com forum.
Basically for relatively cheap capacity increases you can fit oversize (83mm) pistons from one of the 5 cylinder Audis.
Fitted to (overbored) '1800' (1781cc) bottom end, gives the common '1900' (1871cc) conversion. Pistons cost about £320 (about £100 more than standard '1800' rebuild pistons).
Or find a Audi '3A' block (form an early '90's 80 or 90)- same height block as the 1800, but 199?cc - just swap head and bit of minor messing with dizzy. Meant to be very torquey on an 8v. Cam and good modded head even better. Fit oversized pistons for 2008cc.
Both very cheap compared to the well known tuner's prices.
Other 2.0 8v tend to have taller block, but should still fit with new/modded manifold.
The downside to the 16v engines that I can see is the cost of the exhaust manifold to fit it to the Mk1.
Cheers, Phil (VW Scirocco)
try the www.no-rice.com forum.
Basically for relatively cheap capacity increases you can fit oversize (83mm) pistons from one of the 5 cylinder Audis.
Fitted to (overbored) '1800' (1781cc) bottom end, gives the common '1900' (1871cc) conversion. Pistons cost about £320 (about £100 more than standard '1800' rebuild pistons).
Or find a Audi '3A' block (form an early '90's 80 or 90)- same height block as the 1800, but 199?cc - just swap head and bit of minor messing with dizzy. Meant to be very torquey on an 8v. Cam and good modded head even better. Fit oversized pistons for 2008cc.
Both very cheap compared to the well known tuner's prices.
Other 2.0 8v tend to have taller block, but should still fit with new/modded manifold.
The downside to the 16v engines that I can see is the cost of the exhaust manifold to fit it to the Mk1.
Cheers, Phil (VW Scirocco)
Chris defo number 2 if you are on a budget.
I run a bog stock 1.8 16v (KR) at the mo & don't feel its got a lack of torque & Ive had a few 8v Golfs it does have less low down grunt but not by too much. I love the 1.816v it is a great power plant easyly tuned to 160bhp & if you spend a few £ even 180 is relitivley easily achived- thats what I'm aiming for anyway. Sounds good when revved too.
In the much lighter Mk1 it would be very rapid even as standard- sort the brakes tho huh!!
Forget number 3 the G60 has had its day & simply not worth the agro in getting bits for & its not the most power no matter what you do to it.
The ubiqutous VAG 1.8T is the engine of choice, but not on a small budget, although you can get a TT lump with an easy & relaible chipped 270bhp for sub £3k or a golf based 1.8t for less, but it will cost a fair few £ to get it properly installed & they do sound dull as ditch water tho!
You can of course go mental with a 1.8T, bill's Ibiza at the PH brunters meet on sunday was running 360'ish'bhp!! & good for a 0-100 in 10 secs & good for 160mph!! humbled a lot of relitively exotic motors inc 964C2 & E46 M3!!!
oh and a mk1 golf with a hot 1.8T beat every supercar bar the R500 at Autocars how fast can you go contest at Bedford, that includes almost any car you can imagine ie 996Turbos, GT3's etc etc, so not slow if you spend the £ on 'em
I run a bog stock 1.8 16v (KR) at the mo & don't feel its got a lack of torque & Ive had a few 8v Golfs it does have less low down grunt but not by too much. I love the 1.816v it is a great power plant easyly tuned to 160bhp & if you spend a few £ even 180 is relitivley easily achived- thats what I'm aiming for anyway. Sounds good when revved too.
In the much lighter Mk1 it would be very rapid even as standard- sort the brakes tho huh!!
Forget number 3 the G60 has had its day & simply not worth the agro in getting bits for & its not the most power no matter what you do to it.
The ubiqutous VAG 1.8T is the engine of choice, but not on a small budget, although you can get a TT lump with an easy & relaible chipped 270bhp for sub £3k or a golf based 1.8t for less, but it will cost a fair few £ to get it properly installed & they do sound dull as ditch water tho!
You can of course go mental with a 1.8T, bill's Ibiza at the PH brunters meet on sunday was running 360'ish'bhp!! & good for a 0-100 in 10 secs & good for 160mph!! humbled a lot of relitively exotic motors inc 964C2 & E46 M3!!!
oh and a mk1 golf with a hot 1.8T beat every supercar bar the R500 at Autocars how fast can you go contest at Bedford, that includes almost any car you can imagine ie 996Turbos, GT3's etc etc, so not slow if you spend the £ on 'em
Thanks to all for the ideas/opinions. On balance I think I'll forget the G60 option, and as much as I'd like a 20V Turbo engine it's more expense and complexity than I am looking to get into with this project.
Therefore it's down to modding the 8V or dropping in a 16V lump and I'd say I'm probably leaning towards the latter based on the comments.
I'm wondering if buying sub £1k tatty early Mk2 16V donor car to get engine/gearbox/driveshafts and brakes all in one go is a sensible move?
Also, I know most Mk1 16V conversions relocate all the fuel injection gubbins to the offside of the engine bay but you can get a 16V Scirocco inlet manifold that keeps the metering unit etc in the standard Mk1 place. I quite fancy that option but know these manifolds are hard to come by. Anyone know how rare they really are and where is a good place to find one s/hand?
Chris
Therefore it's down to modding the 8V or dropping in a 16V lump and I'd say I'm probably leaning towards the latter based on the comments.
I'm wondering if buying sub £1k tatty early Mk2 16V donor car to get engine/gearbox/driveshafts and brakes all in one go is a sensible move?
Also, I know most Mk1 16V conversions relocate all the fuel injection gubbins to the offside of the engine bay but you can get a 16V Scirocco inlet manifold that keeps the metering unit etc in the standard Mk1 place. I quite fancy that option but know these manifolds are hard to come by. Anyone know how rare they really are and where is a good place to find one s/hand?
Chris
Chris no need to spend £1k on a 16Vmk2 I sold a pretty ok '87 120,00mile example one a yr ago for £600- I simply couldnt get more at the time.
Few months back I bought a pretty tatty 16vMK2 (MOT failure on chassis rust) & paid £100 for it!! The engine, box & the injection bits- which was what I was after was fine tho.
Get a later 16v MK2 as the early ones have the small 239mm discs liek the 8v and you will be after the later 256mm (I think) jobbies & the calipers are different.
Few months back I bought a pretty tatty 16vMK2 (MOT failure on chassis rust) & paid £100 for it!! The engine, box & the injection bits- which was what I was after was fine tho.
Get a later 16v MK2 as the early ones have the small 239mm discs liek the 8v and you will be after the later 256mm (I think) jobbies & the calipers are different.
It's alleged that most ABF's put out more than the VW quoted 150bhp. I've seen a number of them with dyno plots showing up to 167 bhp but as ever you can't really compare across differebt dynos.
There is loads of stuff on KR heads with 9a 2.0L bottom ends on places like VW Vortex. ABF was Euro only I believe. ABF is also a tall block so I'd see if it will fir ok. I know the KR will fit cos a friend is transplanting one into his mk1 now.
There is loads of stuff on KR heads with 9a 2.0L bottom ends on places like VW Vortex. ABF was Euro only I believe. ABF is also a tall block so I'd see if it will fir ok. I know the KR will fit cos a friend is transplanting one into his mk1 now.
top fuel said:
for an extreme option have you considered a midmounted engine??
Like your thinking but not sure I'm up to doing that myself at home, not if I want to finish it this lifetime anyway!
top fuel said:
VR6 or 20v turbo??
Have read the VR6 in a Mk1 spoils the handling balance although the power would be nice. 20V turbo definitely tempting but still leaning towards a nice simple 16V conversion. Especially since I've been searching the web and it's looking like a can get a complete donor car for less than £500 or engine alone for even less.
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