battery replacement

[tom's dad]

Looking to replace battery. What do people recommend? not looking to pay £100+
Thoughts appreciated.

Cheers.

[Chimpandtonic]

Hi Graham,

Long time no see at the ACE mate.

If you want the best & you are feeling flush you could go for an Odyssey 25-PC1400.

http://www.tayna.co.uk/ODYSSEY-PC1400-1230-Crankin...

The bigger Odyssey 25-PC1500 may just fit but that's even more money.

You will find most suppliers don't actually hold Odyssey stock even though they are on their websites, they simply don't sell regularly enough due to the cost.

Odyssey batteries do however have a fantastic reputation in the industry, my mate at Bristol Batteries is getting me a PC 1400 from the States & charging me £190.00 delivered to my door, but I think that's more or less cost price.

However if you are looking for a well specified & good value AGM battery in the correct 072 size this one looks tempting at £130.00 delivered.

http://www.performancebatteries.co.uk/product/AX+D...

[Cider Andy]

I'd probably be buying this one.

[Hoover.]

Graham.... personally I'd be looking at something with cold cranking in excess of 600amp....... what ever you do don't do halfords to expenesive Circa £110 (i've only used them for convinience) and would probably be looking at a Varta Blue Dynamic E24 (type 069) approx £80 ... not used, but once issue sorted with battery consumption this is what I think I'll be fitting

[tom's dad]

Thanks for the advise. Went for a bosch in the end with 4 year guarantee 78 squid from german & french. Will see how it goes.
Cheers.

Hope to get to the Ace this March meeting.

[Hoover.]

why do I bother

[PeteGriff]

Hoover. said:

Graham.... personally I'd be looking at something with cold cranking in excess of 600amp....... what ever you do don't do halfords to expenesive Circa £110 (i've only used them for convinience) and would probably be looking at a Varta Blue Dynamic E24 (type 069) approx £80 ... not used, but once issue sorted with battery consumption this is what I think I'll be fitting

I would second that Hoover. The Varta batteries are superb, better than the Bosch. We exclusively use Varta in our business (specialist vehicles). They have never failed and work around the world in all climate conditions. Regards, Pete

[Chimpandtonic]

This just turned up at my door

Went for the bigger PC1500 in the end.









Guess what I'll be doing tomorrow?

It's going to be tight

[ChimpanChampagne]

SNUG AS A BUG IN A RUG





ODYSSEY PC1500

Length: 275.6 mm
Width: 171.7 mm
Height: 198.6 mm
Weight: 22.4 kg

Perfect fit in the standard battery box

Pulse Hot Cranking Amps: 1500 (For 5 seconds)
Cold Cranking Amps: 850
Hot Cranking Amps: 1250
Marine Cranking Amps: 1050

[Simon says]

I know they say some things are certain in life...... Taxes,Death etc also on that list will be the fact your car will never crank sluggishly ever again ChimpanChampagne ETA I spelt Death Deaf what a burke

Edited by Simon says on Saturday 17th March 11:28

[ChimpanChampagne]

Simon says said:

I know they say some things are certain in life...... Taxes,Deaf etc also on that list we be the fact your car will never crank sluggishly ever again ChimpanChampagne

Yes indeedy Simon.

Add in my new heavy duty starter cable, additional earth lead, Prestolite gear reduction starter motor and my starter solenoid bypass on the Meta unit.

And she cranks like no other RV8 TVR I've ever heard...... hot, cold & always

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I really do think that weedy 7.5ft long starter cable TVR fitted is to blame for a significant amount of hot start failures these cars have become infamous for.

Edited by ChimpanChampagne on Saturday 17th March 08:19

[Cider Andy]

ChimpanChampagne said:

I really do think that weedy 7.5ft long starter cable TVR fitted is to blame for a significant amount of hot start failures these cars have become infamous for.

If you strapped the starter motor to ten Odyssey batteries via a two-square-inch busbar it still wouldn't turn if the solenoid's not pulling in...

[ChimpanLucky]

Cider Andy said:

ChimpanChampagne said:

I really do think that weedy 7.5ft long starter cable TVR fitted is to blame for a significant amount of hot start failures these cars have become infamous for.

If you strapped the starter motor to ten Odyssey batteries via a two-square-inch busbar it still wouldn't turn if the solenoid's not pulling in...

Thanks for the lesson Andy, what would I do without you

Mate in my opinion there are two distinct issues with the starter wiring on these cars and that are clearly getting confused.


ISSUE 1: IMMOBILISER RELAY:

This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser, turn the key to the start position and nothing, not even the faintest click from the solenoid

This is an immobiliser fault or more specifically the failure of a relay inside the Meta unit.

You can prove this (like I did) by putting a test meter on the starter solenoid feed wire with the immobiliser disengaged and the key in the start position.

In my case there was a solid feed from the ignition switch, but zero current exiting the immobiliser on the starter solenoid side.

The problem had to be inside the Meta immobiliser unit.

The hot start kit is just a relay that masks the fact that the immobiliser relay TVR originally used to energise the starter motor solenoid is inadequate.

This immobiliser relay often starts to show it's on the way out when the car gets hot (but not always), that's because the resistance in the entire system goes up dramatically when it gets hot.

To solve this problem permanently, I simply bypassed Meta immobiliser on the ignition circuit only, the fuel pump is still controlled by immobiliser so the car remains secure.

I then added a relay back in to protect the ignition switch, this completely solved my immobiliser related starting issues.


ISSUE 2: STARTER CABLE & EARTH:

This gives the following symptom - Disengage the immobiliser and turn the key to the start position, the car fails to start but you hear a faint click from the starter solenoid

This typically happens on a hot restart, say after filling up with fuel on a hot day.

In this case the solenoid is receiving sufficient amps to complete the high amp starter circuit & spin the starter(no question, I tested it).

The problem is the resistance is so high in the feeble starter cable that even though the high amp circuit is completed the starter simply fails to turn.

There is definitely a significant voltage and amperage drop at the starter motor when that feeble starter cable gets hot (I tested it), the internal resistance within the starter also goes up when the motor is hot (I tested that too).

IT ALL ADDS UP.. Like I say the net result being the starter fails to turn even though the starter solenoid is sufficiently energised!

The solution in my opinion is to upgrade the feeble and very long starter cable with better quality higher amperage battery cable.

Further improvements can be obtained by upgrading the earth path, a short lead from the battery negative terminal direct to the engine block should be all it needs.


Both issues 1&2 can quite correctly be referred to as the hot start issue, because both mostly happen when everything in the starter circuit gets hot.

But in truth, both are very different issues that need resolving in different ways.

My Meta bypass on the solenoid command wire circuit solved the immobiliser related issue (ISSUE 1), which in my case happened hot or cold (However I can see why others get in more when hot).

But my occasional hot start issue persisted (ISSUE 2).

Only by replacing the excessively long and feeble starter cable with a much heavier gauge cable & additional earth did I eliminate what I consider to have been the source of my true hot start issue.

Both issues were properly tested to prove my theory that they are very different faults.

Both have been addressed in different ways with respect to each fault.

Both have been completely resolved separately six months apart in time.

To me that's pretty conclusive evidence supporting the validity and robustness of my diagnostic skills and understanding of the starter circuit.

But, hey... perhaps I was just lucky and the three years I spent studying this stuff at Norwich City College and the subsequent five years spent in restoration was just a dream

Any which way, Mr ChimpanLucky has ended up with a significantly better starting, and ultimately more reliable TVR.

And as that was my objective I can say its all been well worth it

Edited by ChimpanLucky on Saturday 17th March 10:21

[spend]

ChimpanLucky said:

But, hey... perhaps I was just lucky and the three years I spent studying this stuff at Norwich City College and the subsequent five years spent in restoration was just a dream

That experience would teach a normal person that it takes a bit longer to fully evaluate the outcome of an attempted solution.... Time will tell, but by then you are likely to have several other changes due to general degradation ~ worn battery, fried cable, poorer starter.......

Notwitstanding that you may well have cleaned up some of the solenoid wiring inadvertantly (or purposely but prefer not to mention) whilst messing?

[ChimpanLucky]

spend said:

ChimpanLucky said:

But, hey... perhaps I was just lucky and the three years I spent studying this stuff at Norwich City College and the subsequent five years spent in restoration was just a dream

That experience would teach a normal person that it takes a bit longer to fully evaluate the outcome of an attempted solution.... Time will tell, but by then you are likely to have several other changes due to general degradation ~ worn battery, fried cable, poorer starter.......

Notwitstanding that you may well have cleaned up some of the solenoid wiring inadvertantly (or purposely but prefer not to mention) whilst messing?

I knew Mr Happy would turn up on this one.



Right I'm off out to drive my unreliable TVR.

Wish me luck