Why doesn't mine go round corners?
Discussion
I had a go in a friend’s N-reg Griffith yesterday. The first thing I said as I drove along was ‘Aha, power steering!’, as it felt so different from my own 97 Griff. But it wasn't! His Griff was light and fluent to drive, and if I turned into a corner the car followed naturally round. But in my Griff, it's more of a fight - I have to positively hold the car round the corners. Our tyres are the same 205x55 SO2s, so what's causing the difference? My car is 17,000 miles and has never been ragged or shagged. It's going to Offord Motor Co next week for a service, so what do I ask them to check?
quote:
I had a go in a friend’s N-reg Griffith yesterday. The first thing I said as I drove along was ‘Aha, power steering!’, as it felt so different from my own 97 Griff. But it wasn't! His Griff was light and fluent to drive, and if I turned into a corner the car followed naturally round. But in my Griff, it's more of a fight - I have to positively hold the car round the corners. Our tyres are the same 205x55 SO2s, so what's causing the difference? My car is 17,000 miles and has never been ragged or shagged. It's going to Offord Motor Co next week for a service, so what do I ask them to check?
Steering joints?
I speak as an S owner, but this is what can cause the same fault on an S, I've no idea as far as a Griff goes, but the joints on the steering rack can get stiff when they get rusty etc.
Cheers,
Dave.
My guess would be too much front camber. Sagging springs can cause this, or it could just have been set up that way from new. Could also be worn rack or steering UJs, ball joints and so on. I'm sure Simon's team will track it down if you ask them.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Just had some work on my front suspension and it has transformed the handling. (4.3 Griff) I had the newer spec 1 piece top wish bones fitted, some thrust washers to keep them in the right place, and then the suspension was set up. Previously, the car was very twitchy. I thought that was the way they were, but now it feels a lot more planted on the road, and it is much more likely to go where you point it, unless a really bumpy road un settles it. Well worth it, and not an expensive job.
Jon H
Jon H
been told that the cars are not always set up properly from the factory, mine was handling poorly so I had TMS do a geometry set up and, as Peter said, the camber was over 2 degrees out. Tyre pressures were way off and my tyres were unsuitable for the car. All this was corrected very cheaply and it handles like a Kart now
I also find my 500 Griff is a tad of a handfull around the corners, even not driving it hard you have to keep it in line i.e. it's a car you have to concentrate on when driving.... spoke to David Batty about this, I've had the washers replaced on the bushes which has helped a little (er.. one side didn't have the washers at all??????) and he's suggested I have a go in a power steering model.. if I prefer to retrofit PS then it should be itro £600 using recon parts...
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if I prefer to retrofit PS then it should be itro £600 using recon parts...
Hmmmm £600 will get you a rack... another 250 will get you a pump... £60 for the reservoir and then there is the fun of shortening the steering column to accomodate the taller rack. £60 for the hydaraulic hoses and then you will need a new fan belt and the mounting brackets. Pricves do vary a bit depending on if the engine is a serpentine one or not.
It is not that straighforward!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
John
I agree with the bushes, camber, etc, and in particular the UJ bit (as mine has just had new UJ's and feels a completely different car). Get Simon to have it checked.
Do not be frightened by the power steering conversion. I thought that it might ruin the car, but it has proved wonderful and made a great car bloody fantastic (now very fluid and not jerky).
Disagreeing with God, but I got my bits from a TVR breaker (off a relatively new Chimera for £300), and contrary to what Steve says TVR make different lengths of lower steering shaft and different length UJ's so there is no need to 'shorten the shaft', just the PITA finding the right UJ's.
Richard
I agree with the bushes, camber, etc, and in particular the UJ bit (as mine has just had new UJ's and feels a completely different car). Get Simon to have it checked.
Do not be frightened by the power steering conversion. I thought that it might ruin the car, but it has proved wonderful and made a great car bloody fantastic (now very fluid and not jerky).
Disagreeing with God, but I got my bits from a TVR breaker (off a relatively new Chimera for £300), and contrary to what Steve says TVR make different lengths of lower steering shaft and different length UJ's so there is no need to 'shorten the shaft', just the PITA finding the right UJ's.
Richard
The breaker route is not a bad one but most of the crash damaged TVRs involve some form of frontal bashing which makes me very suspicious about recycling any steering stuff without reconditioning it first. Having damaged steering racks while sprinting that have looked fine when inspected but had bent internal RAMs and other faults, I tend to be a little cautious now.
The shortening comment is valid as yes you can change these but having experienced TVR changing the length and design of the steering column UJs recently so that the shafts were no longer the right size I feel particularly sensitive to this... Happened on the 520 and resulted in a major scratching of head until Tower View eventually found the right one!
Totally agree with the joys of PAS though.
Steve
The shortening comment is valid as yes you can change these but having experienced TVR changing the length and design of the steering column UJs recently so that the shafts were no longer the right size I feel particularly sensitive to this... Happened on the 520 and resulted in a major scratching of head until Tower View eventually found the right one!
Totally agree with the joys of PAS though.
Steve
Well I checked the tyre pressures (22/24) and whilst they were a little low all round, getting them better hasn't made any difference. Don't need or want PAS, thanks all the same, as the N-reg Griff felt super without it - ie. it can be done!
I'll pass all your comments on to Simon for digestion - thanks.
I'll pass all your comments on to Simon for digestion - thanks.
Probably get slaughtered for this....but I had two new fronts fitted on the Chim (non PAS) at my local TVR dealer some time ago. When I drove it away I instantly noticed that it seemed much easier to handle and less hard work on cornering. Must be the new tyres I thought. When I checked the pressures (with a digital pressure guage I always carry) they had put 24 in the front!. So I thought lets try it and upped the backs to 26. Since then I love the way it handles. It much more communicative and easier to handle (even at speed). I also noticed that even after a very short run tyre pressures go up by 1lb or so. Since the recommended 22/24 is cold pressure I wonder how many people set this after a run to the garage and thus probably have 21/23 lbs when cold. Anyway it works for me and I do take it easy when damp. Incidentally the tyre wear over the last 3,000 miles has been abolutely even.
'When I drove it away I instantly noticed that it seemed much easier to handle and less hard work on cornering. Must be the new tyres I thought. When I checked the pressures (with a digital pressure guage I always carry) they had put 24 in the front!. So I thought lets try it and upped the backs to 26.'
Yep, but you said it was already handling much better before you did that - so it must have been the new tyres, if that was the only thing they changed...
Yep, but you said it was already handling much better before you did that - so it must have been the new tyres, if that was the only thing they changed...
a-ha .. poly bushes .. probably a bad idea unless they're the super-hard version. the softer versions actually offer worse location than the TVR bush and thrust washer route. I only use poly bushes (hard type) nearest the exhaust manifold cos they resist the heat better than the rubber bushes.
Well the car's now back from Offord and it's sporting purple poly bushes. The car turns in a little better but on sharper and/or faster corners it's still definitely fighting back. And that despite 'reset geometry' on the bill. I could put a couple more psi in the front tyres but it couldn't make that much difference, surely.
The bushes weren't cheap to fit so I'm a rather disappointed.
The bushes weren't cheap to fit so I'm a rather disappointed.
Bit late but anyhow...
Had my S3 engine bay steam cleaned once. Problem was, it took the grease off my stearing joints. It was like driving a tank afterwards. The stearing wheel would only move if you made it move, ie, it wouldn't return to centre etc...
Easy to rectify though with a good grease up. Perfect.
Had my S3 engine bay steam cleaned once. Problem was, it took the grease off my stearing joints. It was like driving a tank afterwards. The stearing wheel would only move if you made it move, ie, it wouldn't return to centre etc...
Easy to rectify though with a good grease up. Perfect.
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