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Instructions to change fuel maps on 14CUX Griffith, Chimaera

Instructions to change fuel maps on 14CUX Griffith, Chimaera

Author
Discussion

Mjstemp1

15 posts

12 months

Monday 1st May
quotequote all
Steve,

Wow, thanks very much for all your efforts!

As to "idle issues with R3652_430 particularly while coasting or slowing" on your R3652_430 Bin, I did have some during warm up in particular. Found this on both Map2 and Map5. Once fully warm they were less of an issue. I now have a working Road Speed sensor, although its reading 1.8 times what it should be. T5 with VDO Hall Sensor needed a small conversion box to allow ECU to get the 0-12V square signal. Also has about a 2-3 second delay once fully stopped before idle drops to 950. Tried looking at the address in the bin file for it but could not tell which way to modify the "Road Speed Comparator for different sensors". As long as I have 0 KPH when stopped and no longer have a speed limiter, dont see if its really any issue?

Tried out the Map2 R3652_430 from your original files last night. Looked a bit lean under mid throttle, mid 16s. Once full throttle and above 3400 rpm, back into the mid 12 though. Need to recheck the CO, was set at 1.4V before and have not touched the air flow meter but have not verified it recently. Will try out your R3652_430_5000 bin on Map2 latter this week.

On a side note, any one considering the analog AEM AFR meter, there is no data logging ability. Their other gauges can do this but not the nice looking analog version. Other than that issue it is a good meter though. Now if only i had placed it where I could easily video it and the RG!

Steve, thank you again for all your help.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Monday 1st May
quotequote all
Mjstemp1 said:
Steve,

Wow, thanks very much for all your efforts!

As to "idle issues with R3652_430 particularly while coasting or slowing" on your R3652_430 Bin, I did have some during warm up in particular. Found this on both Map2 and Map5. Once fully warm they were less of an issue. I now have a working Road Speed sensor, although its reading 1.8 times what it should be. T5 with VDO Hall Sensor needed a small conversion box to allow ECU to get the 0-12V square signal. Also has about a 2-3 second delay once fully stopped before idle drops to 950. Tried looking at the address in the bin file for it but could not tell which way to modify the "Road Speed Comparator for different sensors". As long as I have 0 KPH when stopped and no longer have a speed limiter, dont see if its really any issue?
Pleasure, The idle updates in the two latest bins should help as they have a lower coasting idle. Increasing PROM offset 242 lowers the coasting idle hot and cold plus the initial cranking idle can be adjusted independently if required.

The 2-3 seconds delay dropping to 950rpm is typical and hopefully will be less obvious with the lower coasting idle in the latest bins. I personally don’t mind a slightly raised coasting idle as it helps smoothness in slow moving traffic. At least you know your road speed sensor works and is best left alone if its not causing any issues, the road speed limiter is removed in all my bins. You can change RoverGauge’s speedo calibration in the latest version but unfortunately the latest version of RoverGauge doesn’t show the table column headings, I have informed Colin.

“Road Speed Comparator for different sensors” changes the voltage input sensitive of the speedo input for lower voltage signals but sadly doesn’t change the internal ECU speedo calibration. DaveP has recalibrated his ECU internal speedo by modifying the 14CUX program code, alternative would it be possible for you to half the number of teeth on your crown wheel and recalibrate your speedo?

Mjstemp1 said:
Tried out the Map2 R3652_430 from your original files last night. Looked a bit lean under mid throttle, mid 16s. Once full throttle and above 3400 rpm, back into the mid 12 though. Need to recheck the CO, was set at 1.4V before and have not touched the air flow meter but have not verified it recently. Will try out your R3652_430_5000 bin on Map2 latter this week.
Today I gave both R3652_430_5500.bin (containing OEM precat 4.3 fuel table) map 2 & R3652_4.6_5500.bin Map2 a very quick test drive to check they run ok, both drove very well and didn’t appear to have a massive AFR difference judging from the dash AFR gauge.

R3652_4.6_5500


R3652_430_5500 (with TVR OEM Fuel Table)


My modified and extended fuel table I normally run.


AFR table with my modified and extended fuel table.


Mjstemp1 said:
Steve,
On a side note, any one considering the analog AEM AFR meter, there is no data logging ability. Their other gauges can do this but not the nice looking analog version. Other than that issue it is a good meter though. Now if only i had placed it where I could easily video it and the RG!
Steve, thank you again for all your help.
I’m sure Mark Blitz could recommend a digital USB data logger to connect to the White & Brown wires and maybe then I could help merge your AFR log with RoverGauge logs.


Edited by stevesprint on Tuesday 2nd May 08:34

blitzracing

5,166 posts

141 months

Wednesday 3rd May
quotequote all
I would not go down the lines for using a Voltage data logger as you would then have to covert the voltage to AFR, and when I tried this the results where not consistent to what I expected,so id spend the bit more and get the AFR readings directly as number values.

Mjstemp1

15 posts

12 months

Friday 5th May
quotequote all
Steve,

Was able to trial the R3652 430 5500. Works rather well. Will try to video log, ha ha, this weekend but from looking at the AFR gauge feel this meets my requirements.

My road speed sensor is coming off of the T5 transmission, this is from an internal gear etc, not at all like your set up. Now that I am using this also to run the ECU it giving some issues. The speedo is now rather slow to go to 0 when stopping and I feel it's causing the higher idle to linger too long. May have to look for another sensor to feed the ECU. Was planing on adding cruise control and this could give me a better input for the ECU.

Thanks for you help,
Mike

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Monday 8th May
quotequote all
Mjstemp1 said:
Steve,

Was able to trial the R3652 430 5500. Works rather well. Will try to video log, ha ha, this weekend but from looking at the AFR gauge feel this meets my requirements.

My road speed sensor is coming off of the T5 transmission, this is from an internal gear etc, not at all like your set up. Now that I am using this also to run the ECU it giving some issues. The speedo is now rather slow to go to 0 when stopping and I feel it's causing the higher idle to linger too long. May have to look for another sensor to feed the ECU. Was planing on adding cruise control and this could give me a better input for the ECU.

Thanks for you help,
Mike
Roughly how high is the idle when it lingers as you can lower it in the data by increasing prom offset 242, is it more of an issue when cold, warming up or hot ?
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Mjstemp1

15 posts

12 months

Monday 8th May
quotequote all
Steve,

The one causing my issues is the warm coasting idle. Its over 1300 rpm and with my slow acting speedo takes too long at a stop to drop down for my liking. I see offset 242 is now at 8C, original "Operation Pride" looks to have been 6C. Keeping the increment the same (base 10 = +32), would AC be a good first step?

Thanks,
Mike

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Monday 8th May
quotequote all
Mjstemp1 said:
Steve,

The one causing my issues is the warm coasting idle. Its over 1300 rpm and with my slow acting speedo takes too long at a stop to drop down for my liking. I see offset 242 is now at 8C, original "Operation Pride" looks to have been 6C. Keeping the increment the same (base 10 = +32), would AC be a good first step?

Thanks,
Mike
Try smaller steps, maybe hex 94 as you run the risk of lowering the hot lingering idle too much, but on the other hand may suit you. Its all bit of a compromise with the old 14CUX and our limited knowledge, also don't forget you need a slightly raised idle during warming up.

==== Edit ====

Prom offset 242 is used to initialise the stepper motor value that is stored and saved by the battery and therefore a complete power off ECU reset is required to reload offset 242.

Edited by stevesprint on Thursday 11th May 23:26

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Sunday 28th May
quotequote all
Colin has released a new version of RoverGauge version 0.9.3 to fix the disappearing column headings and also includes the recent additions, like displaying the battery saved data and a new scalar to recalibrate the RoverGauge Speedo that does not effect the ECU's internal road speed.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Colin & Dan on behalf of the hundreds of RoverGauge users for implementing all our requests quickly and effectively. RoverGauge looks and feels like a very professional, mature and complete diagnostic tools and we are all very very lucky and grateful its free. I've always believed the best software is free and RoverGauge certainly proves it.
Three Cheers for Colin and his father Dan for cracking the 14CUX, Mark Blitz for making the cables and Mark Blitz & DaveP for their continued support.

Heres the latest RoverGauge Version 0.9.3
https://github.com/colinbourassa/rovergauge/releas...

Battery saved data
$40 Temporary use during right lambda calculations (2 bytes)
$42 Lambda Long Trim Right (2 bytes)
$44 Temporary use during left lambda calculations (2 bytes)
$46 Lambda Long Trim Left (2 bytes)
$48 High Fuel Temperature (2 bytes)
$40 -> $4E Fault Codes (6 bytes)
$4F Stepper Motor Saved Value
$50 Fuel Map Number
$51 Throttle Pot Minimum (2 bytes)
$53 Throttle Pot Min Copy & ram Checksum (2 bytes)

davep

964 posts

205 months

Sunday 28th May
quotequote all
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hurrah x 3

blitzracing

5,166 posts

141 months

Sunday 28th May
quotequote all
Funny old thing this- it makes you wonder how life would have been different, if you had managed to meet and work with such inspirational people early on in your working career - but even now this whole area has made a significant difference to my life, and all for good, let alone the now thousands of people now using RoverGauge.

cosecon

4 posts

5 months

Thursday 1st June
quotequote all
Good day to all!!!
Lately I have been testing different roms with minor adjustments to my Land Rover Defender 14cux.
Just a quick info for my setup.: Rover V8 4.0 crossbolted block. ported heads from 3.5. mild road cam with anti pump lifters. Increased compression and megajolt for spark.

Yesterday I started with the original R3652 rom and did the following changes:
1. base idle 700
2. neutral idle 100
3. overrun fueling 04 (this corresponds to 4500 i suppose)
4. coasting idle hold up (offset 0242) 21 (hex) ;experimenting.

I installed and start the engine (warm day). On the first 3 or 4 traffic lights the idle rpm was fluctuating and the engine died.
For a couple of traffic lights i kept the idle with my foot on accelerator.
After that "magically" idle was perfect.
I continue driving with no any problem.
Finally I decided to test full throttle. The moment I reached 5000+ rpm (I have a rev limiter with megajolt @ about 5000rpm by fully dropping the advance to 0). The engine died completely and would not start . Switch off and on ... no start...Remove refit ecu start normally.
Retried full throttle engine dies...
What do you think?
NOT POSSIBLE TO RESTART UNLESS ECU IS UNPLUGGED and PLUGGED.
Checked with other roms, no problem.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Thursday 1st June
quotequote all
cosecon said:
Good day to all!!!
Lately I have been testing different roms with minor adjustments to my Land Rover Defender 14cux.
Just a quick info for my setup.: Rover V8 4.0 crossbolted block. ported heads from 3.5. mild road cam with anti pump lifters. Increased compression and megajolt for spark.

Yesterday I started with the original R3652 rom and did the following changes:
1. base idle 700
2. neutral idle 100
3. overrun fueling 04 (this corresponds to 4500 i suppose)
4. coasting idle hold up (offset 0242) 21 (hex) ;experimenting.

I installed and start the engine (warm day). On the first 3 or 4 traffic lights the idle rpm was fluctuating and the engine died.
For a couple of traffic lights i kept the idle with my foot on accelerator.
After that "magically" idle was perfect.
I continue driving with no any problem.
Finally I decided to test full throttle. The moment I reached 5000+ rpm (I have a rev limiter with megajolt @ about 5000rpm by fully dropping the advance to 0). The engine died completely and would not start . Switch off and on ... no start...Remove refit ecu start normally.
Retried full throttle engine dies...
What do you think?
NOT POSSIBLE TO RESTART UNLESS ECU IS UNPLUGGED and PLUGGED.
Checked with other roms, no problem.
Hi again Konstantinos

I'm sorry to hear your Megajolt rpm limter is crashing the 14CUX and unfortunately sorry I have no idea why it won’t restart after hitting your Megajolt rpm limiter with Land Rover’s original R3652 rom. I’ll be very surprised if it doesn’t restart after turning off the ignition for more than 5 seconds until you hear the main relay click off as that clears down all the internal temporary ram data and resets the processor, but obviously not the battery saved data.

Your choice of Land Rovers original R3652 makes a lot of sense as that’s Land Rover’s last revision for high compression 3.9s, however here’s Land Rover original high compression rom from the previous year 1994 and certainly worth trying first unmodified.

www.stevesprint.com/remap-14cux/bins/LR_R3360_94_3...

You may have the warming up idle issues as your coasting idle hold up (rom offset 242) of hex 21 seems far too low, it should be 6C hex, increasing the ‘coasting idle hold up’ actually lowers the ‘hold up idle’ and decreasing it raises the’ hold up idle’ and only requires small adjustments for example hex 8 at a time. The ECU will require unpluging after change the coasting idle hold up as it value is held in the battery saved data.

The overrun fuelling of 04 hex raises the upper starting point of the overrun fuel cut to 4,500 rpm meaning fuel is not cut off when lifting off below 4,500 rpm.

We know when revving passed 5,000 rpm the 14CUX processor starts running out of processing time between the sparks and maybe your Megajolt suddenly altering the spark advance at 5,000 rpm changes the spark periods enough to crash the processor but I don't know. This is more of a question for Dan as he has commented in the past how some roms have been optimised to save processing time and maybe the reason why some roms don't crash but again I don’t know.

Sorry & Good Luck

eisdielenbiker

10 posts

14 months

Friday 2nd June
quotequote all
Konstantinos,
I don't think that Megajolt is necessarily crashing the 14CUX R3652 . I had once a similar effect with my 3652 derivate PROM. Although internally the 3652 rev limit is some 5600 rpm my analogue dash gauge is always reading not significantly above 5000 when running into the limiter. You can counter check this running a roverGauge log at high data rate.I once had been really upset when my car did not restart immediately while still rolling in the middle of nowhere. I had to wait a little with the ignition of and then the engine started up effortless again. On two other occasions I could reengage the stalled engine whilst still rolling in neutral gear at high speed...
Mark L.

Edited by eisdielenbiker on Friday 2nd June 08:04

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Friday 2nd June
quotequote all
That's a worry and glad your cars are ok, luckily I’ve never suffered any major issues with R3652 in 4 years and I don’t have Megajolt ignition like Konstantinos, your experiences are enough to make me re-think about using R3652 in the future.

cosecon

4 posts

5 months

Friday 2nd June
quotequote all
stevesprint said:
You may have the warming up idle issues as your coasting idle hold up (rom offset 242) of hex 21 seems far too low, it should be 6C hex, increasing the ‘coasting idle hold up’ actually lowers the ‘hold up idle’ and decreasing it raises the’ hold up idle’ and only requires small adjustments for example hex 8 at a time.
I tried 21 because one ROM from Tornado is like this. Just to experiment.
stevesprint said:
The overrun fuelling of 04 hex raises the upper starting point of the overrun fuel cut to 4,500 rpm meaning fuel is not cut off when lifting off below 4,500 rpm.
Thank you for clarifying. It thought in was the opposite. not above, but bellow.

eisdielenbiker said:
Konstantinos,
I don't think that Megajolt is necessarily crashing the 14CUX R3652 .
I do not believe it is the Megajolt. The Megajolt is the best thing that happened to my engine.

Today I did the following, I prepared a simple R3652 with no mod and it works perfect at Rev limit. I am not sure. Maybe I made some change accidentally.



stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Friday 2nd June
quotequote all
cosecon said:
stevesprint said:
You may have the warming up idle issues as your coasting idle hold up (rom offset 242) of hex 21 seems far too low, it should be 6C hex, increasing the ‘coasting idle hold up’ actually lowers the ‘hold up idle’ and decreasing it raises the’ hold up idle’ and only requires small adjustments for example hex 8 at a time.
I tried 21 because one ROM from Tornado is like this. Just to experiment.
Hex 21 is so far off I’ve realised you must be looking at an earlier ROM like R2422 or earlier that have the older style file layout where offset 242 is hex 21 because it's a cell in map 1's fuel table and not the hold up lingering idle setting. If that’s the case it doesn’t sound like a Tornado as I thought they are all based on R3116, but I'm not sure.

cosecon said:
I do not believe it is the Megajolt. The Megajolt is the best thing that happened to my engine.

Today I did the following, I prepared a simple R3652 with no mod and it works perfect at Rev limit. I am not sure. Maybe I made some change accidentally.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

MPO

241 posts

33 months

Saturday 3rd June
quotequote all
[quote=stevesprint]Colin has released a new version of RoverGauge version 0.9.3 to fix the disappearing column headings and also includes the recent additions, like displaying the battery saved data and a new scalar to recalibrate the RoverGauge Speedo that does not effect the ECU's internal road speed........

Nice one Colin rotaterotate

I'm looking forward to seeing your upgrades... I'll be testing it in the morning smile

3 Cheers from me too!

bounce

Cheers

MPO



jjohnson23

63 posts

34 months

Saturday 10th June
quotequote all
Hello all,its been a while since I have been on here.
Unfortunately both the car and myself suffered illness at the beginning of the year.
The car has a new heart(well 2nd hand) as the original engine had a bad misfire which turned out to be a wiped inlet cam lobe.
I had already built a new bottom end (3.9),so I put a new std cam in and got the rear axle changed to a 3.08:1.
Anyway,I would like to use a normal Range Rover image such as R3652 but eliminate the speed limiter just to get me on my way again.
Would this be possible and if so where would the location I need to alter be?
Sorry to impose but I have not had the opportunity to play for a while and would like to get back on the road now that I can get about now.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

839 posts

100 months

Sunday 11th June
quotequote all
jjohnson23 said:
Hello all,its been a while since I have been on here.
Unfortunately both the car and myself suffered illness at the beginning of the year.
The car has a new heart(well 2nd hand) as the original engine had a bad misfire which turned out to be a wiped inlet cam lobe.
I had already built a new bottom end (3.9),so I put a new std cam in and got the rear axle changed to a 3.08:1.
Anyway,I would like to use a normal Range Rover image such as R3652 but eliminate the speed limiter just to get me on my way again.
Would this be possible and if so where would the location I need to alter be?
Sorry to impose but I have not had the opportunity to play for a while and would like to get back on the road now that I can get about now.
Sorry to hear you’ve both suffered illness, but at least you’re both now on the road to recovery, 3.08:1 brings back memories of my old TR7 V8 14CUX.

Sorry, I currently I don’t have the standard Land Rover R3652 with just the Road Speed limiter removed however I’ll happily build one for you.

To get you on the road you could try any of the following and then let me know what configuration your prefer, like idle speed, rpm limiter, overrun cracks & pops etc.

Land Rover OEM
http://home.btconnect.com/stevesprint/remap-14cux/...
http://www.stevesprint.com/remap-14cux/bins/LR_R33...

Land Rover with Raised idle, road speed limiter removed and lower idle immediate after cranking,
http://home.btconnect.com/stevesprint/remap-14cux/...

TVR 400 Precat and CAT merged into one tune.
http://home.btconnect.com/stevesprint/remap-14cux/...

Good Luck
Steve

eisdielenbiker

10 posts

14 months

Monday 12th June
quotequote all
Hi there,
is there a PROM version prior to 2967 that is not opening the stepper valve at 100% when iginition is switched on ? I neither recatched the information on this topic nor did I find a straight-forwarded coding approach or barely a PROM address to alter. I really dislike hunting a cold engine up to 2000 rpm. This is what mine is doing after tuning a lot of things mechanically and by the ECU. The lowered cranking coolant idle tab by Steve helps but not quickly enough.
I have now applied 2 code patches one at the end of mainloop.asm to wind the stepper back to some example 64% on engine temperatures below 29 degrees Celsius and one in reset.asm to clear up the memory location to do this only once after ignition key on. I have been using the PROM checksum error code 29 bit 0 at Address $0049 to memorize this one time action. It works and is stable under summery conditions. The solution only fails if you dont allow to entirely shut off the system, i.e. if you don't wait 3 or 4 seconds for the main relay to cut of after ignition off on a cold engine. Then you get the original 100% again. That won't hurt either if your emgine is unwilling to start at all.
However I would prefer a less intrusive way to achieve a reasonable immediate cranking idle for the first second of any cold engine run.
Mark L.

The effect at 64% so far counts up to 200 rpm only, I will lower this little mor maybe 45% for the summer. You could possibly use the standard coolant idle tab values to get a simple temperatur dependency...if required. In the end you only had to preselect the coolant tab stepper count a little ahead to its appliaction in idlecontrol.asm I will proof the necessity of this further step in November.

Rover Gauge Log starting a cold engine:
datetime roadSpeed engineSpeed waterTemp fuelTemp throttlePos mafPercentage idleBypassPos
2017-06-11_16:36:22.078 0 0 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:22.218 0 0 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:22.453 0 117 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:22.656 0 131 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:22.843 0 138 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:22.984 0 142 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:23.125 0 144 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:23.328 0 145 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:23.468 0 146 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:23.609 0 149 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,644444
2017-06-11_16:36:23.859 0 206 -17 -17 0,0459433 0 0,638889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.000 0 498 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.187 0 1273 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.328 0 1784 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.468 0 1798 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.671 0 1720 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.812 0 1661 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:24.953 0 1601 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:25.187 0 1536 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:25.343 0 1419 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:25.531 0 1343 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:25.671 0 1264 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:25.812 0 1241 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:26.015 0 1222 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:26.156 0 1226 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,488889
2017-06-11_16:36:26.296 0 1226 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,394444
2017-06-11_16:36:26.531 0 1230 -17 -17 0,0469208 0 0,394444

Base idle screw is set 700 rpm to keep stepper valve influence at minimum on idle , ECU base software idle is 750 when engine is warm. The first might be causing a higher effect of a 100% open valve immediately after cranking...

Edited by eisdielenbiker on Wednesday 14th June 11:56