Precat has got Wildcat

Precat has got Wildcat

Author
Discussion

Precat

Original Poster:

258 posts

164 months

Sunday 16th April 2017
quotequote all
Hi Matthew
Years ago I saw the Pierburg manifold casing for sale and thought it would be brilliant to see it on a running engine.



So I bought it and I'm working towards that goal. Maybe it's another one of my mad experiments. The upside is it keeps me out of trouble most of the time. I'm curious about the end result too!
Precat wink

rev-erend

19,983 posts

223 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
I had the same issue with mine. I started with the mesh idea. Have tried various filters like itg that have not fitted. Ended up building a custom Airbox.


Kokkolanpoika

154 posts

90 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Precat said:
Hi Kokkolanpoika
Based on your posting, I have the following questions and thoughts.
You bought a pair of Wildcat heads and you don't like them? What is it that you don't like about them? What would you do differently?
To port a cylinder head and get a good result, one has to have the relevant experience and a Flow Bench to test what works based on the final application. This takes a lot of time. Once the desired result has been achieved, to replicate the result, it is easier to use modern engineering processes like digitalisation and CNC machining.
In recent years most companies in the USA that produce Ported cylinder heads use a CNC process as this is the most commercially effective way of getting these products to market.
CNC Porting Vs Porting by hand
Pros of CNC porting:
Consistency - Every head produced will be the same
Financial efficiency - CNC process is quicker than porting by hand, therefore more cost effective
Cons of CNC porting:
Bigger financial investment in technology and CNC machines
Pros of porting by hand:
For low volume or one-off jobs it's the only practical way to do the job
Cons of porting by hand:
Inconsistency
Higher production cost
My personal ideal would be to buy CNC flowed heads and finish them by hand. That said I'm in the position where I have the infrastructure to do this. I am aware not everyone has this.
What valve size would you recommend?
You mentioned you would cast the heads differently, what would you change?
Are you thinking of producing Heads for the Rover V8? I for one would be interested.
I don't class myself as a racer, I'm just an enthusiast.
Finally what is an Eales DD Manifold?
If possible, I would appreciate some diagrams and /or pictures to help me understand.
Thanks Precat
Hard to explain in other langue..
Like i say, i will make slightly smaller diameter valve seat inside diameter, also slightly more height those seat´s, and i like to run max: 46/39mm valves is that 1.811/1.535" valves, But i think i have to use 47mm inlet/1.85" inlet valves.. It´s still in progress..46-47mm is my target So i have to machine those stock valves smaller.. I will not measure those head´s on flow bench when i start portin work, it is waste of time and money, maybe after, but like i say it wont matter me if it flow squirrel fur or some +220 CFM..
Also i will modify casting near inlet valve guide if i will cast those.

Also like i say, CNC porting is fast and if you do many set´s of head´s. They are usually good enought for most of people. But they still need allways hand finishing..Or at worse CNC make them even worse than straight for cast..
But if you do only 1 set, CNC porting is waste of time. And CNC not necessarily make identical port´s.. Depend on how good is casting..On my head´s there is not enought material for near valve seat´s..Valve seat ID is to small for those port´s.. So theoritically those head´s need more material. But i think i can handle it if i make a small radius for valve seat´s. Same happend for those Real Steel merlin head´s. Nos sure if RPI can meke them any better?

Also i wonder why those head´s use Buick 350 valve cover bolt spasing? I wont buy 160£ + vat valve cover´s + near 50£ + vat those breather setup.. I will use STD Rover v8 rocker cover´s with special made adapter plate witch i have.

Also why those water holes in head´s are so low? i will lift them inline with port´s.
Also why they have to modify inlet manifold bolt spacing? Of course for business..

Kokkolanpoika

154 posts

90 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
I had the same issue with mine. I started with the mesh idea. Have tried various filters like itg that have not fitted. Ended up building a custom Airbox.
What is the distance for trumpet mouth to glass?

rev-erend

19,983 posts

223 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Kokkolanpoika said:
Precat said:
Hi Kokkolanpoika
Based on your posting, I have the following questions and thoughts.
You bought a pair of Wildcat heads and you don't like them? What is it that you don't like about them? What would you do differently?
To port a cylinder head and get a good result, one has to have the relevant experience and a Flow Bench to test what works based on the final application. This takes a lot of time. Once the desired result has been achieved, to replicate the result, it is easier to use modern engineering processes like digitalisation and CNC machining.
In recent years most companies in the USA that produce Ported cylinder heads use a CNC process as this is the most commercially effective way of getting these products to market.
CNC Porting Vs Porting by hand
Pros of CNC porting:
Consistency - Every head produced will be the same
Financial efficiency - CNC process is quicker than porting by hand, therefore more cost effective
Cons of CNC porting:
Bigger financial investment in technology and CNC machines
Pros of porting by hand:
For low volume or one-off jobs it's the only practical way to do the job
Cons of porting by hand:
Inconsistency
Higher production cost
My personal ideal would be to buy CNC flowed heads and finish them by hand. That said I'm in the position where I have the infrastructure to do this. I am aware not everyone has this.
What valve size would you recommend?
You mentioned you would cast the heads differently, what would you change?
Are you thinking of producing Heads for the Rover V8? I for one would be interested.
I don't class myself as a racer, I'm just an enthusiast.
Finally what is an Eales DD Manifold?
If possible, I would appreciate some diagrams and /or pictures to help me understand.
Thanks Precat
Hard to explain in other langue..
Like i say, i will make slightly smaller diameter valve seat inside diameter, also slightly more height those seat´s, and i like to run max: 46/39mm valves is that 1.811/1.535" valves, But i think i have to use 47mm inlet/1.85" inlet valves.. It´s still in progress..46-47mm is my target So i have to machine those stock valves smaller.. I will not measure those head´s on flow bench when i start portin work, it is waste of time and money, maybe after, but like i say it wont matter me if it flow squirrel fur or some +220 CFM..
Also i will modify casting near inlet valve guide if i will cast those.

Also like i say, CNC porting is fast and if you do many set´s of head´s. They are usually good enought for most of people. But they still need allways hand finishing..Or at worse CNC make them even worse than straight for cast..
But if you do only 1 set, CNC porting is waste of time. And CNC not necessarily make identical port´s.. Depend on how good is casting..On my head´s there is not enought material for near valve seat´s..Valve seat ID is to small for those port´s.. So theoritically those head´s need more material. But i think i can handle it if i make a small radius for valve seat´s. Same happend for those Real Steel merlin head´s. Nos sure if RPI can meke them any better?

Also i wonder why those head´s use Buick 350 valve cover bolt spasing? I wont buy 160£ + vat valve cover´s + near 50£ + vat those breather setup.. I will use STD Rover v8 rocker cover´s with special made adapter plate witch i have.

Also why those water holes in head´s are so low? i will lift them inline with port´s.
Also why they have to modify inlet manifold bolt spacing? Of course for business..
Hey Kop,

Is this some new technique..

Lining the inlet ports with squirrel fur ?

What works best : regular grey or exortic hard to ge red..





Edited by rev-erend on Monday 17th April 17:43

Advertisement

Matthew Poxon

5,184 posts

112 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
I had the same issue with mine. I started with the mesh idea. Have tried various filters like itg that have not fitted. Ended up building a custom Airbox.

That looks interesting. I have always wondered how one would go about filtration on the Wildcat Throttle body setup. Have you got any more photos?

Kokkolanpoika

154 posts

90 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Hey Kop,

Is this some new technique..

Lining the inlet ports with squirrel fur ?

What works best : regular grey or exortic hard to ge red..

Edited by rev-erend on Monday 17th April 17:43
Sense of humor man.. Might be my stupid humor.. but...

Why do you think that flow bench, very big valves and good CFM readings make more power? They are only theoretical number´s.. Theoretically you´r engine should give near 450-500hp if we can trust those ACR flow bench numbers.. depending on camshaft, you should be starting at least 400hp if you don´t run 3.5efi camshaft.. I do not see any point to use those massive valves.. Of course bigger hole will flow better on the flow bench than small one, without spark plug it will flow mutch better again.. wink

Kokkolanpoika

154 posts

90 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Custom made adapter plate to suit Rover V8 rocker cover´s to buick 350 head bolt spacing. Save lot of money to me.. Only need drilling rover rocker cover bolt pattern and make M6 thread in it, or helicoils??


John Eales DD manifold´s fitted to wild cat head´s.. Need some work still..


Manifold´s need new ends that waterways can be sealed..

Precat

Original Poster:

258 posts

164 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
I had the same issue with mine. I started with the mesh idea. Have tried various filters like itg that have not fitted. Ended up building a custom Airbox.

Nice one
Precat

Precat

Original Poster:

258 posts

164 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Kokkolanpoika said:
Custom made adapter plate to suit Rover V8 rocker cover´s to buick 350 head bolt spacing. Save lot of money to me.. Only need drilling rover rocker cover bolt pattern and make M6 thread in it, or helicoils??


John Eales DD manifold´s fitted to wild cat head´s.. Need some work still..


Manifold´s need new ends that waterways can be sealed..
Impressive stuff thumbup
I thought I had a lot of work to do. I wish Finland was closer.
Precat

rev-erend

19,983 posts

223 months

Tuesday 18th April 2017
quotequote all
Matthew Poxon said:
That looks interesting. I have always wondered how one would go about filtration on the Wildcat Throttle body setup. Have you got any more photos?

Matthew Poxon

5,184 posts

112 months

Friday 21st April 2017
quotequote all
Nice! Is she up and running yet or still work in progress?

rev-erend

19,983 posts

223 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
quotequote all
Yep. Running OK.

Sorry its a short clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjYjtmysvzU

Just finishing off a few tasks like brakes and headlights before getting back to tuning the map. Then its the dreaded MOT.

Matthew Poxon

5,184 posts

112 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I didn't realise you had the full Gulf paint job. That looks absolutely awesome, coupled with that engine that is one impressive wedge. Will be great to see it on the road.

Good luck with the MOT

Kokkolanpoika

154 posts

90 months

Saturday 9th March
quotequote all
Any update?

I just got my heads back to machine shop after welding many porosity problems. And just start to finishing inlet side/valve seats.. Hope to get them run to this season.
Will see if smaller valves make it running poor than those huges.

rev-erend

19,983 posts

223 months

Friday 15th March
quotequote all
Nice to see you last weekend Anthony.

Looking forward to seeing the wildcat webpage update soon..

phazed

17,353 posts

143 months

Friday 15th March
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Nice to see you last weekend Anthony.

Looking forward to seeing the wildcat webpage update soon..
That's were he was!