Impressions so far...let's put the btrakes on...
Discussion
ChimpOnGas said:
Love this 
And I can't see Neill Anderson spending all that time developing better brakes for the last run of Griffiths and Chimaeras if he didn't think it improved the cars, TVR may have had the AP calipers on the shelf from the new T cars but to develop a five stud conversion and have special wheels cast or the Griffith & Chimaera takes some investment.
Development is all about moving things on to deliver improvements, Neill Anderson knew this as it was his job after all, if we all just sat about saying what we have is fine we'd still be living in caves.
I love my Brembo brake upgrade, it made a huge improvement to my car, fine is fine but better is better..... and better brakes are a big improvement on these cars
For the record the wheels on the Griffith I saw recently had five stud versions of these wheels fitted to the never to surface Speed Six Griifith.
They looked exactly like the above but had five studs not the four we see here on the aborted Speed Six Griifith.
I think I'm becoming very confused regarding not only this thread but also my post about the vacuum advance pipe. I've learnt a couple of valuable lessons since posting on Piston Heads, don't ask about modifying a car that I don't fully understand yet as I've only owned it for a few weeks, and I haven't even had a chance to get used to it in standard trim.And I can't see Neill Anderson spending all that time developing better brakes for the last run of Griffiths and Chimaeras if he didn't think it improved the cars, TVR may have had the AP calipers on the shelf from the new T cars but to develop a five stud conversion and have special wheels cast or the Griffith & Chimaera takes some investment.
Development is all about moving things on to deliver improvements, Neill Anderson knew this as it was his job after all, if we all just sat about saying what we have is fine we'd still be living in caves.
I love my Brembo brake upgrade, it made a huge improvement to my car, fine is fine but better is better..... and better brakes are a big improvement on these cars
For the record the wheels on the Griffith I saw recently had five stud versions of these wheels fitted to the never to surface Speed Six Griifith.
They looked exactly like the above but had five studs not the four we see here on the aborted Speed Six Griifith.
Also, I've got to start trusting my own judgements, even though I've now got used to the standard brakes, at the earliest opportunity I'm going to get them upgraded, in standard form, as you say Chimp, they are fine, but that's not to say they can't be a hell of a lot better.
It's a question of where do you stop, we can get used to anything, on an original car, but you can make so many improvements that the car then ceases to be original, and looses all the feel of the original.
I guess you have to realise that TVR didn't have the deepest of pockets and development is expensive so you can not expect TVRs to be as well tested and developed as more mainstream cars. This means that there are some areas where there is room for improvement in the design. The trick though is separating internet fact from fiction, as is always the case TBH. These two threads are very informative and many thanks to the knowledgeable contributors.
Rob_the_Sparky said:
I guess you have to realise that TVR didn't have the deepest of pockets and development is expensive so you can not expect TVRs to be as well tested and developed as more mainstream cars. This means that there are some areas where there is room for improvement in the design. The trick though is separating internet fact from fiction, as is always the case TBH. These two threads are very informative and many thanks to the knowledgeable contributors.
Yes! I've been a TVR fan of many years standing from a distance, but owning and driving one is a completely different kettle of fish. You do have to remove the modern production car concept completely from your mind. But that's what's so charming an attractive about my Griff, the fact that it's a bit rough around the edges and needs a bit of TLC is why I like it. I was thinking about what it might be like to not have it now, it's unthinkable, driving it is a real "event" 
and I still arrive home sweaty and exhausted feeling like I've just been struggling with a WW11 fighter plane! Also the attention you get on the road, it's not "bad" attention, people seem to really like the car, there's no envy or bad feeling there.In the short time I've had my Griff all these things I'd really miss if I'd gone out and bought a BMW/Nissan etc.
Griff59, simplest thing would be to drive one or more of our cars with the bigger brake upgrades to see what you think of them.
Only depends on which of the Scottish islands you live........or perhaps you actually live somewhere quite central?
My Chimaera has similar brakes to Chimpo's and Classic Chim's and is situated in the East Midlands, and you are most welcome to try them.
Only depends on which of the Scottish islands you live........or perhaps you actually live somewhere quite central?
My Chimaera has similar brakes to Chimpo's and Classic Chim's and is situated in the East Midlands, and you are most welcome to try them.
TV8 said:
The early Cars had 240mm front discs and unventilated rear discs. I wasn’t happy with them and changed the fronts to new 260 mm discs and new matching callipers. Basically, the front half of the standard set up you have.
Add some Good brake fluid, good quality pads and braided hoses and that set up gave me an excellent pedal feel and no fade even during hard track use.
On the current car, the set up is the same but with bigger and vented rear discs. I haven’t had that much time on track but enough to know they work fine and a lot Better pedal feel than the brakes on my 987 Boxster!
Is changing front discs from 240mm to 260mm a straight bolt on or do you need to adapt/drill out the hubs or something?Add some Good brake fluid, good quality pads and braided hoses and that set up gave me an excellent pedal feel and no fade even during hard track use.
On the current car, the set up is the same but with bigger and vented rear discs. I haven’t had that much time on track but enough to know they work fine and a lot Better pedal feel than the brakes on my 987 Boxster!
griffdude said:
Griff59, what kind of mileage has your TVR covered over recent years?
It had a rebuild in 2011, chassis, engine cam, at 71,000.It's covered 10,500 since.
QBee said:
Griff59, simplest thing would be to drive one or more of our cars with the bigger brake upgrades to see what you think of them.
Only depends on which of the Scottish islands you live........or perhaps you actually live somewhere quite central?
My Chimaera has similar brakes to Chimpo's and Classic Chim's and is situated in the East Midlands, and you are most welcome to try them.
I'm down in Kent, thats really kind of you, maybe we can arrange something? Only depends on which of the Scottish islands you live........or perhaps you actually live somewhere quite central?
My Chimaera has similar brakes to Chimpo's and Classic Chim's and is situated in the East Midlands, and you are most welcome to try them.
900T-R said:
They didn't. The thing was they were sitting on a boatload of 16-inch Spider wheels as 95 percent of Tuscan and Tamora customers went for the 18-inch option (fools, even Peter Wheeler commented that they set up a car as welle as they could, then punters would pay them good money to ruin it) and decided to machine a load of hubs for the 5-bolt PCD so they could throw them on the Griff and Chim using the std T-car brakes as a factory upgrade. PH reported on it back in 2001 or 2002 and the price for the whole kit including tyres was an unrepeatable £1,400 which made it a bit of a no-brainer. 
Indeed! I'm not sure if this was the factory way or an indie way of achieving the same result, but I've seen the standard hubs re-drilled for the 5 stud conversion which meant some holes were dangerously weak / overlapping the old 4 stud holes, so they made a thick ring which goes behind the standard hub which carried the 5 new studs in a more secure manner.I won't call it a bodge, but it wasn't elegant engineering.
Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 7th August 15:43
The benefits of larger discs goes beyond looking good and allowing you to lock the tyres with less effort. The greater the diameter then the greater the effective linear velocity of the disc past the pad for any given angular velocity..
Small discs have a low disc speed past the pad and are more likely to *grab* just on the point of lock up making that final modulation of braking effort on the limit difficult.
A larger diameter disc allows you to approach that lock limit with more accuracy.
Modern cars have big discs because 1) the cars are 50 percent heavier than they really should be and 2) the brakes are often used for traction control / active stability and as such a larger disc will be more accurate in action in extremis. Someone who is always using the tc / active yaw abilities will also be putting a lot of heat into the disc, another reason they're big items.
Small discs have a low disc speed past the pad and are more likely to *grab* just on the point of lock up making that final modulation of braking effort on the limit difficult.
A larger diameter disc allows you to approach that lock limit with more accuracy.
Modern cars have big discs because 1) the cars are 50 percent heavier than they really should be and 2) the brakes are often used for traction control / active stability and as such a larger disc will be more accurate in action in extremis. Someone who is always using the tc / active yaw abilities will also be putting a lot of heat into the disc, another reason they're big items.
Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 7th August 15:53
cureton said:
TV8 said:
The early Cars had 240mm front discs and unventilated rear discs. I wasn’t happy with them and changed the fronts to new 260 mm discs and new matching callipers. Basically, the front half of the standard set up you have.
Add some Good brake fluid, good quality pads and braided hoses and that set up gave me an excellent pedal feel and no fade even during hard track use.
On the current car, the set up is the same but with bigger and vented rear discs. I haven’t had that much time on track but enough to know they work fine and a lot Better pedal feel than the brakes on my 987 Boxster!
Is changing front discs from 240mm to 260mm a straight bolt on or do you need to adapt/drill out the hubs or something?Add some Good brake fluid, good quality pads and braided hoses and that set up gave me an excellent pedal feel and no fade even during hard track use.
On the current car, the set up is the same but with bigger and vented rear discs. I haven’t had that much time on track but enough to know they work fine and a lot Better pedal feel than the brakes on my 987 Boxster!
spitfire4v8 said:
The benefits of larger discs goes beyond looking good and allowing you to lock the tyres with less effort. The greater the diameter then the greater the effective linear velocity of the disc past the pad for any given angular velocity..
Small discs have a low disc speed past the pad and are more likely to *grab* just on the point of lock up making that final modulation of braking effort on the limit difficult.
A larger diameter disc allows you to approach that lock limit with more accuracy.
Modern cars have big discs because 1) the cars are 50 percent heavier than they really should be and 2) the brakes are often used for traction control / active stability and as such a larger disc will be more accurate in action in extremis. Someone who is always using the tc / active yaw abilities will also be putting a lot of heat into the disc, another reason they're big items.
Yes and yes, but you need to balance that against the small matter of unsprung and rotating weight, in particular the unsprung/sprung weight ratio. The brakes on a standard Griffmaera can undoubtedly be improved on, but before you bolt on that set of 324 mm single piece discs, consider that in period they seldomly came in for serious criticism while the lack of suspension composure nearly always did. Small discs have a low disc speed past the pad and are more likely to *grab* just on the point of lock up making that final modulation of braking effort on the limit difficult.
A larger diameter disc allows you to approach that lock limit with more accuracy.
Modern cars have big discs because 1) the cars are 50 percent heavier than they really should be and 2) the brakes are often used for traction control / active stability and as such a larger disc will be more accurate in action in extremis. Someone who is always using the tc / active yaw abilities will also be putting a lot of heat into the disc, another reason they're big items.
Hence, apart from discs and pads I have left the original brake set up on my '93 430 well alone until I could come up with a solution that a) bolted the calipers directly to the hubs as per OEM (I regard adding brackets to lug mount hubs to put the calipers further outside as a compromise at best, no self respecting OEM would mount calipers that way and it negates the benefits of having a stiffer caliper body) and b) didn't add significant weight to that of the 240 mm Ford discs (4.35 kg apiece).;I settled for 280 x 24 mm Tarox billet discs on custom bells (made by Reyland Motorsport, excellent service) and lug mount Wilwood forged Superlite calipers. Still need to find out how much of an improvement this lot will be in service on brakes that felt pretty much spot on in road conditions to begin with (on track, indeed modulating them just before lock up could indeed be problematic with the DS3000 pads
) , but I'm hopeful QBee said:
My Chimaera has similar brakes to Chimpo's and Classic Chim's and is situated in the East Midlands, and you are most welcome to try them.
Next trip out is the Rockingham track day on 24th August - passenger rides available if anyone fancies some brake testing!! I will most likely have the slicks on, as there are a few Cerberas on that day that i will feel duty bound to overtake.
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