Battery recommendation
Discussion
The battery is knackered on the Griff and needs replacing. Have searched but 1) the search function here is useless and 2) could only find old threads. So to save me a lot of research and hassle what is the best battery to get for the Griff? Not looking to relocate it at this stage.
Cheers
Cheers
As an example. https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/072-bosch-car-ba...
(From the list at top of page. The Battery is a std 072 type with a crank rating of 620-630 amps.
Size of Battery - to ensure you get one which fits in the battery box - is L 272mm, W 170, D 220.)
(From the list at top of page. The Battery is a std 072 type with a crank rating of 620-630 amps.
Size of Battery - to ensure you get one which fits in the battery box - is L 272mm, W 170, D 220.)
It depends on what you mean by best? Cheapest, best value, or best battery? Or what kind of cost / performance compromise you want?
The Griff shouldn't be particularly demanding on the battery, but I am great believer that when you are in a moment of need, there is no substitute for size. Or in the case of a battery, no substitute for amp hours and cold cranking amps.
Normally, when I buy a battery, I look at Odyssey, Optima, and North Star, and see which will give me most performance for a battery that will physically fit in the space that it has to go.
To save you the trouble of much research, when I carried out this exercise for the Griff six months ago, the Odyssey PC1500 was the winner and the best place to buy it was flea-bay. It (just) fitted in the standard battery box.
It is, however, pretty pricey, so most people may want to go for something more "sensible". The PC1500 is kind of a "money no object" solution.
I can, however, say that I have had a pair of them in my off road land rover for many years. Winching and loads of lights (night time off roading) kills batteries (winches draw a similar current to starter motors, but for much longer periods of time) and often when off roading, the car goes for hours idling with very little time when there are any revs on the engine. The PC 1500s lap up the abuse and havnt failed yet, although they have been well abused and I expect any other battery would have died by now.
No connection other than as a customer.
The Griff shouldn't be particularly demanding on the battery, but I am great believer that when you are in a moment of need, there is no substitute for size. Or in the case of a battery, no substitute for amp hours and cold cranking amps.
Normally, when I buy a battery, I look at Odyssey, Optima, and North Star, and see which will give me most performance for a battery that will physically fit in the space that it has to go.
To save you the trouble of much research, when I carried out this exercise for the Griff six months ago, the Odyssey PC1500 was the winner and the best place to buy it was flea-bay. It (just) fitted in the standard battery box.
It is, however, pretty pricey, so most people may want to go for something more "sensible". The PC1500 is kind of a "money no object" solution.
I can, however, say that I have had a pair of them in my off road land rover for many years. Winching and loads of lights (night time off roading) kills batteries (winches draw a similar current to starter motors, but for much longer periods of time) and often when off roading, the car goes for hours idling with very little time when there are any revs on the engine. The PC 1500s lap up the abuse and havnt failed yet, although they have been well abused and I expect any other battery would have died by now.
No connection other than as a customer.
I had a Bosch S series in my car. before I completed my battery relocation. The car when I bought it had this battery and I ran it for 8 years under my ownership and it was still good when it was removed. I ran it completely flat at three times during that time (left the lights on once and twice ran flat over winter) the battery recovered and was fine afterwards.
https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/bosch-s4009.htm...
https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/bosch-s4009.htm...
I used an Odyssey PC925 and four years later have had no problems. Cranking power is absolutely phenomenal.
Being thinner than a normal battery it can either give you 2" more legroom or in my case allows the opportunity to site the ECU against the bulkhead keeping the top- of the battery clear of the 'birdsnest'.
Being thinner than a normal battery it can either give you 2" more legroom or in my case allows the opportunity to site the ECU against the bulkhead keeping the top- of the battery clear of the 'birdsnest'.
Hedgehopper said:
I used an Odyssey PC925 and four years later have had no problems. Cranking power is absolutely phenomenal.
Being thinner than a normal battery it can either give you 2" more legroom or in my case allows the opportunity to site the ECU against the bulkhead keeping the top- of the battery clear of the 'birdsnest'.
Ooh, interesting. Being thinner than a normal battery it can either give you 2" more legroom or in my case allows the opportunity to site the ECU against the bulkhead keeping the top- of the battery clear of the 'birdsnest'.
Dare I ask how much?
2 inches almost doubles the passenger seat legroom
There are pros and cons with these compact batteries but we very rarely hear the cons.
I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost
I chose not to fit one for these reasons. If you fit one be sure to keep it charged
I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost
I chose not to fit one for these reasons. If you fit one be sure to keep it charged
BIG DUNC said:
It depends on what you mean by best? Cheapest, best value, or best battery? Or what kind of cost / performance compromise you want?
The Griff shouldn't be particularly demanding on the battery, but I am great believer that when you are in a moment of need, there is no substitute for size. Or in the case of a battery, no substitute for amp hours and cold cranking amps.
Normally, when I buy a battery, I look at Odyssey, Optima, and North Star, and see which will give me most performance for a battery that will physically fit in the space that it has to go.
To save you the trouble of much research, when I carried out this exercise for the Griff six months ago, the Odyssey PC1500 was the winner and the best place to buy it was flea-bay. It (just) fitted in the standard battery box.
It is, however, pretty pricey, so most people may want to go for something more "sensible". The PC1500 is kind of a "money no object" solution.
I can, however, say that I have had a pair of them in my off road land rover for many years. Winching and loads of lights (night time off roading) kills batteries (winches draw a similar current to starter motors, but for much longer periods of time) and often when off roading, the car goes for hours idling with very little time when there are any revs on the engine. The PC 1500s lap up the abuse and havnt failed yet, although they have been well abused and I expect any other battery would have died by now.
No connection other than as a customer.
The Odyssey PC1500 is the absolute mutt's nuts, I fitted mine six and a half years ago and I filly expect it last a further six and a half years minimum.The Griff shouldn't be particularly demanding on the battery, but I am great believer that when you are in a moment of need, there is no substitute for size. Or in the case of a battery, no substitute for amp hours and cold cranking amps.
Normally, when I buy a battery, I look at Odyssey, Optima, and North Star, and see which will give me most performance for a battery that will physically fit in the space that it has to go.
To save you the trouble of much research, when I carried out this exercise for the Griff six months ago, the Odyssey PC1500 was the winner and the best place to buy it was flea-bay. It (just) fitted in the standard battery box.
It is, however, pretty pricey, so most people may want to go for something more "sensible". The PC1500 is kind of a "money no object" solution.
I can, however, say that I have had a pair of them in my off road land rover for many years. Winching and loads of lights (night time off roading) kills batteries (winches draw a similar current to starter motors, but for much longer periods of time) and often when off roading, the car goes for hours idling with very little time when there are any revs on the engine. The PC 1500s lap up the abuse and havnt failed yet, although they have been well abused and I expect any other battery would have died by now.
No connection other than as a customer.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I hear tales of people getting over 20 years out of these amazing batteries, two years into owning my Chimaera and after it began presenting starting issues I invested in my Odyssey PC1500 as part of a package of solutions to completely irradiate any further issues.
- Odyssey PC1500
- New starter motor
- Immobiliser fault correction
- Fitted a Battery Brain
- Starter/battery cable upgrade
- Additional high amp cable from battery neg to engine block
A car that doesn't start is a pointless thing, so I wanted to make 100% sure mine would never again have this issue, my package of solutions were all completed back in 2012 and suffice to say the car has always started on the button ever since.
On one occasion when I was out of the country for two months and didn't use my Chimaera for a further month it started after that three month layup like I'd used the car the day before, no trickle charger was used or was even an option as the council lockup I was using at the time had no mains power.
On many other occasions my Chimaera has sat for three days in a field in Le Mans over which time it's headlights have been our source of camping light through the night, all the boys have charged their mobiles from my car and the stereo has been our sound system for the whole time. At no point do I ever start the car over the three days while we use it as the campsite power bank, come departure day I just turn the key, the engine cranks like a jet and the car starts instantly.
To be honest I don't think I'm even scratching the surface of the Odyssey PC1500's capacity, endurance, performance and longevity, and these days I baby the battery because it sits disconnected (using the Battery Brain) and on a high end Ring RSCPR25 battery charger.
Like I say 6.5 years after fitting it I fully expect my Odyssey PC1500 to last many more years, probably 20 years in total, but given it's cost it needs to have at least twice the life of a regular battery so it's not for everyone. The extended life of the battery only really becomes an advantage if you're planning on keeping the car for years to come, however I also like the reassurance it gives me that (along with my other improvements) my Chimaera will always start no matter what.
The OP asks the following....
roseytvr said:
So to save me a lot of research and hassle what is the best battery to get for the Griff?
The answer is quite clearly the Odyssey PC1500 if he really does want the best battery for his Griff, but the best never comes cheap so inevitable he'll be paying a significant premium if he genuinely does want the best!I paid £190 for mine back in 2012 and that was at cost price because I have a domestic battery business relationship with a company that's also an Odyssey importer, these days an Odyssey PC1500 will cost a non trade buyer a whopping £270
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Odyssey-Extreme-PC1500-...
bobfather said:
There are pros and cons with these compact batteries but we very rarely hear the cons.
I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost
I chose not to fit one for these reasons. If you fit one be sure to keep it charged
hat depends on which compact battery. If you just go for a battery which is small, it has small capacity and hence the disadvantages.I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost
I chose not to fit one for these reasons. If you fit one be sure to keep it charged
That PC925 is a small PC1500, so while physically smaller, it probably has more capacity than a normal battery of normal size. The Odyssey batteries are happy to be deep cycled, i.e. run completely flat, which can easily kill a normal battery for good.
Chimp on Gas summed it well. They are EPIC batteries, but they are pricey.
If you do serious off roading, battery power is critical, and all the serious people have odyssey batteries. They are pricey, but there is a reason that people are prepared to pay that.
Agreed on the Odyssey batteries. This was my solution:
https://matthewpoxon.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/batt...
https://matthewpoxon.wordpress.com/2017/03/03/batt...
As the OEM location of the battery is in the passenger cell and in the direct vicinity of the ECU and fuse/relay panel I'd say an upgrade to an AGM/dry cell battery would be the bare minimum. An Odyssey PC 925 is ample for the car provided you don't leave it without a charge for weeks on end (I found that the car could sit for two weeks in my underground parking and still would start, but not much more), as is the PC 950 which offers slightly better CCA and Ah ratings but for some reason is almost 3 kgs lighter (11.8 vs 9 kg). The latter however does have an awkward size, being 1 cm wider than the early battery box.
bobfather said:
There are pros and cons with these compact batteries but we very rarely hear the cons.
I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost.
For me the whole reason for the PC925 was to free up space to tidy up the unacceptable 'birds nest'. Also I wanted access to the battery without having to grovel under the car to remove the battery box.. With the ECU behind the battery there is now sufficient room to coil the cables beside the battery (though I did remove the unwanted Air Con relay holders first).I'm no expert but I've read on PH the following
- More expensive, obviously
- They have the cranking power but only for a few spins and if you flatten it you've killed it
- They cannot be recovered if the charge is lost.
Whatever battery I have used it is always on an Accumate so a flat battery is unlikely. Changing a fuse is now straightforward without having to remove the ECU and 'birdsnest'. Removing the battery now takes only seconds.
At the same time as fitting the Odyssey battery I changed the 25mm factory battery cables for 40mm, both neg and pos. This completely cured the reluctance of the starter to turn over quickly on a hot re-start.
So for me , no downsides.
If you understand how a lead acid battery works it'll make sense to you why people in the battery trade go by weight, it's all about how much lead you can cram into the given space. I work with battery suppliers and many buy lead acid batteries from importers that action off containers of Chinese made batteries on mass, apparently some of these Chinese batteries are total junk but some are excellent, the way they sort the rubbish from the good quality stuff is to weigh a sample battery from the container before they bid on the lot.
If a 072 battery size (original equipment on our cars) weighs less that 17kg it should be considered poor quality, it should really weigh between 18-18.5kg to pass the minimum weight test, to put all this into perspective an Odyssey PC1500 which is 072 size weighs in at a whopping 22.4kg and the little PC925 battery is a super light weight 10.8kg.
So 10.8kg vs 22.4kg means a PC925 is half the weight the PC1500, the chemistry of lead acid batteries means the age old rule of 'half the weight means half the endurance' dictates you can pretty much half how long the PC925 will last before it fails to start the car. Odyssey's own figures show us it's actually worse than this, If you look at the 10 amp/hour scale the PC925 its rated at 26 while the PC1500 is rated at 68!
The simple fact is a smaller battery can never compete with a full sized one, it's simply unavoidable chemistry at work and you aint changing that! But saying all that if one of these smaller Odyssey batteries holds it's charge for 2-3 weeks without the help of a trickle charger and still starts the car, you've got to admit it's big enough. If a PC925 passes the 2-3 week test all you're left with are benefits, you'll be enjoying less weight and more leg room for your passenger with no real disadvantages.
I freely admit my PC1500 is overkill, I just got sick of starting issues and I got a good deal on my PC1500, there's no doubt my big boy PC1500 will massively out perform a little PC925 in the parasitic drain test too which just means it'll hang in there a lot longer before I reach the dreaded no start situation. Most TVRs seem to be particularly bad on the parasitic drain issue, I've put a lot of work into reducing mine with some good results but ultimately a Battery Brain is the definitive answer as a healthy disconnected battery (including a PC925) will hold enough charge to start a car for six months or more.
Someone with a PC925 should do the two week holiday test...... drive your TVR to the airport, park up, lock the car and arm the alarm then simply walk away. When you come back from your fortnight holiday if the car starts fine the PC925 should be considered a practical proposition. If the car doesn't start, personally I'd go bigger because I always think there's no reason why my TVR shouldn't be every bit as practical and reliable as any modern car, conduct the holiday test when the UK months are at their coldest to make it realistic and harder on the battery.
Of course the holiday is optional as you could easily mimic this test at home, just disconnect your security blanket trickle charger and give the car a couple of weeks locked in the garage with the alarm armed and let us know if it starts. My bet is it'll be a very tough test indeed to start a TVR that's been left for two weeks locked and alarmed with no trickle charger if it's fitted with a little PC925, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong, I'd also put money on my PC1500 holding out for at least three weeks running the exact same test on the same car
If a 072 battery size (original equipment on our cars) weighs less that 17kg it should be considered poor quality, it should really weigh between 18-18.5kg to pass the minimum weight test, to put all this into perspective an Odyssey PC1500 which is 072 size weighs in at a whopping 22.4kg and the little PC925 battery is a super light weight 10.8kg.
So 10.8kg vs 22.4kg means a PC925 is half the weight the PC1500, the chemistry of lead acid batteries means the age old rule of 'half the weight means half the endurance' dictates you can pretty much half how long the PC925 will last before it fails to start the car. Odyssey's own figures show us it's actually worse than this, If you look at the 10 amp/hour scale the PC925 its rated at 26 while the PC1500 is rated at 68!
The simple fact is a smaller battery can never compete with a full sized one, it's simply unavoidable chemistry at work and you aint changing that! But saying all that if one of these smaller Odyssey batteries holds it's charge for 2-3 weeks without the help of a trickle charger and still starts the car, you've got to admit it's big enough. If a PC925 passes the 2-3 week test all you're left with are benefits, you'll be enjoying less weight and more leg room for your passenger with no real disadvantages.
I freely admit my PC1500 is overkill, I just got sick of starting issues and I got a good deal on my PC1500, there's no doubt my big boy PC1500 will massively out perform a little PC925 in the parasitic drain test too which just means it'll hang in there a lot longer before I reach the dreaded no start situation. Most TVRs seem to be particularly bad on the parasitic drain issue, I've put a lot of work into reducing mine with some good results but ultimately a Battery Brain is the definitive answer as a healthy disconnected battery (including a PC925) will hold enough charge to start a car for six months or more.
Someone with a PC925 should do the two week holiday test...... drive your TVR to the airport, park up, lock the car and arm the alarm then simply walk away. When you come back from your fortnight holiday if the car starts fine the PC925 should be considered a practical proposition. If the car doesn't start, personally I'd go bigger because I always think there's no reason why my TVR shouldn't be every bit as practical and reliable as any modern car, conduct the holiday test when the UK months are at their coldest to make it realistic and harder on the battery.
Of course the holiday is optional as you could easily mimic this test at home, just disconnect your security blanket trickle charger and give the car a couple of weeks locked in the garage with the alarm armed and let us know if it starts. My bet is it'll be a very tough test indeed to start a TVR that's been left for two weeks locked and alarmed with no trickle charger if it's fitted with a little PC925, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong, I'd also put money on my PC1500 holding out for at least three weeks running the exact same test on the same car
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 17th September 19:01
Hedgehopper said:
For me the whole reason for the PC925 was to free up space to tidy up the unacceptable 'birds nest'. Also I wanted access to the battery without having to grovel under the car to remove the battery box.. With the ECU behind the battery there is now sufficient room to coil the cables beside the battery (though I did remove the unwanted Air Con relay holders first).
Whatever battery I have used it is always on an Accumate so a flat battery is unlikely. Changing a fuse is now straightforward without having to remove the ECU and 'birdsnest'. Removing the battery now takes only seconds.
At the same time as fitting the Odyssey battery I changed the 25mm factory battery cables for 40mm, both neg and pos. This completely cured the reluctance of the starter to turn over quickly on a hot re-start.
So for me , no downsides.
Nice job. I'm considering it now as I am totally not happy with having passenger foot pressure against the ECU. I take it your battery mount is custom made ?Whatever battery I have used it is always on an Accumate so a flat battery is unlikely. Changing a fuse is now straightforward without having to remove the ECU and 'birdsnest'. Removing the battery now takes only seconds.
At the same time as fitting the Odyssey battery I changed the 25mm factory battery cables for 40mm, both neg and pos. This completely cured the reluctance of the starter to turn over quickly on a hot re-start.
So for me , no downsides.
Yes, I have compared them. In fact I do so whenever I buy a battery.
My Mazda MPS had an Optima battery. I needed a smaller battery so I could fit a larger air intake (for a larger turbo etc). In the size I wanted, an Optima yellow top had more capacity than the equivalent Odyssey, so I went for the yellow top. While it was much smaller than the OEM battery, it never went flat in all the time that I owned the car, and it often sat without use for two or three weeks at a time, so it passed the Chimp on Gas test (which in the real world is an important one).
I also looked at North Star. Never actually bought one, but I am told they are in the same league as Optima / Odyssey. Similarly expensive as well.
My Mazda MPS had an Optima battery. I needed a smaller battery so I could fit a larger air intake (for a larger turbo etc). In the size I wanted, an Optima yellow top had more capacity than the equivalent Odyssey, so I went for the yellow top. While it was much smaller than the OEM battery, it never went flat in all the time that I owned the car, and it often sat without use for two or three weeks at a time, so it passed the Chimp on Gas test (which in the real world is an important one).
I also looked at North Star. Never actually bought one, but I am told they are in the same league as Optima / Odyssey. Similarly expensive as well.
RogerDodger said:
Nice job. I'm considering it now as I am totally not happy with having passenger foot pressure against the ECU. I take it your battery mount is custom made ?
Thanks. I did make my own battery box but only because I couldn't find a ready made one to orientate the battery with the terminals on the side. Odyssey make boxes and there are several on eBay from which to get DIY ideas.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PC925-Odyssey-Battery-H...
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