Cerbera reliability beyond a joke
Discussion
.quote:
This whole Porsche/TVR thing makes me laugh (sometimes). How many of us considered buying a Porker when we were in the market for a sports car? More than would care to admit I suspect.
Anyway, can we have some rational debate or do I have to get the big stick out?
I was reading the review of the 2002 model 996 in this week's AutoCAR and thought that maybe I ought to test drive one at some point before upgrading to a Cerbera/other TVR. Looks like a very competent car, and with a sports exhaust appears (from their quotes) to sound nice too.
Why is it that the interior trim is always one colour? (seats/door inserts/dash etc.). Do Porsche have the option of at least 2 contrasting colours (say blue/grey or Black/green etc.) to set off a nice, but slightly dull look?
T/.
Yes, you can get two tone leather or leather and suedesque cloth stuff. My 993 has factory fit dark blue leather and brighter blue inserts in the suede-stuff.
You can spec. a 996 with almost any interior/exterior trim you fancy. Some of the combinations are a bit grim though (burgundy leather throughout's particularly,err,interesting)
You can spec. a 996 with almost any interior/exterior trim you fancy. Some of the combinations are a bit grim though (burgundy leather throughout's particularly,err,interesting)
After so much BS not worth reading, for anyone who is interested I have owned a 4.2 from new, done 51,000 miles including a number of track days/airfield days. I have had three problems of note, a tendency to eat starters at a rate of one per 7000 miles, all covered under warranty either from the factory or the extended 3 year warranty that I took out after 12 months had expired. (anyone who owns a TVR should take the extended warranty - at £950 for 3 years it has paid for itself several times!)
I have got through three radiators, all failed as the electric fan boxes were fretting and wore through the cores in the centre of the rad. Lastly I had some problems with what I guess was damp in the control control unit for the central locking. This took far too long and required far too much chasing to get fixed.
OK, there have been other nuisance problems but nothing that has stopped me getting from A to B with a big grin on my face :-) As long as you are prepared to accept that ownership will not be cheap then in my experience, the Cerbera has been as reliable as the Griff and S2 which I owned previously. My biggest gripe has been the indifference and, on occasions, the sheer incompetence of some of the major dealers. If you buy a £50,000 car you expect £50,000 service. In contrast to one (who will remain nameless), TMS have been a pleasure to do business with, just a shame they are an hour and a half's drive from home!
I have got through three radiators, all failed as the electric fan boxes were fretting and wore through the cores in the centre of the rad. Lastly I had some problems with what I guess was damp in the control control unit for the central locking. This took far too long and required far too much chasing to get fixed.
OK, there have been other nuisance problems but nothing that has stopped me getting from A to B with a big grin on my face :-) As long as you are prepared to accept that ownership will not be cheap then in my experience, the Cerbera has been as reliable as the Griff and S2 which I owned previously. My biggest gripe has been the indifference and, on occasions, the sheer incompetence of some of the major dealers. If you buy a £50,000 car you expect £50,000 service. In contrast to one (who will remain nameless), TMS have been a pleasure to do business with, just a shame they are an hour and a half's drive from home!
quote:
In contrast to one (who will remain nameless), TMS have been a pleasure to do business with, just a shame they are an hour and a half's drive from home!
why are people so afraid to name bad dealers? Wouldn't you want fellow owners to stay away and avoid the problems you had? Are you afraid of repercussions from someone you no longer do business with, or from the factory?
I feel you are doing fellow TVR owners a disservice by not naming them
. If we're going to bring some balance to this discussion, I'd like to add my 2p. My 4.5 is 2 years old, I've done a shade under 17k miles in it, and the car has been almost faultless. It does help to ensure you exercise common sense and mechanical sympathy, e.g. not revving the nuts off a cold car, and listen for any odd noises etc. Also, always practice preventative maintenance. And I find that, driven regularly, this has helped to keep everything in good working order.
I would not be surprised if TVR don't still produce "Friday afternoon cars", and my sympathies go out to those unfortunate owners, but I think there's probably an awful lot more of us who have great cars.
I would not be surprised if TVR don't still produce "Friday afternoon cars", and my sympathies go out to those unfortunate owners, but I think there's probably an awful lot more of us who have great cars.
Bob,
Interested to hear what your warranty is for £950 for three years. I have the TVR Warranty holdings "spirit" on my 4.5 and it is about to run out, - I have been quoted 3 times that amount for 3 years additional cover.
Anyway hearing all this Cerbie bashing does worry me slightly. My 4.5 is 3 years old, with 30K on, and in the past year I have only had relatively minor niggles, two rear shocks, a rad sensor and finally a split power steering hose. I know it has been said previously, but I firmly believe TVR's are all the better for regular use.
Anyway WH were not brilliant, out of the 3 stoppages, they only covered one shock! - I had to fund the other side! - the other two faults wre "not covered" as they were down to "wear and tear" - what worries me is if the old AJP goes pop they will have a simlar response.
Interested to hear what your warranty is for £950 for three years. I have the TVR Warranty holdings "spirit" on my 4.5 and it is about to run out, - I have been quoted 3 times that amount for 3 years additional cover.
Anyway hearing all this Cerbie bashing does worry me slightly. My 4.5 is 3 years old, with 30K on, and in the past year I have only had relatively minor niggles, two rear shocks, a rad sensor and finally a split power steering hose. I know it has been said previously, but I firmly believe TVR's are all the better for regular use.
Anyway WH were not brilliant, out of the 3 stoppages, they only covered one shock! - I had to fund the other side! - the other two faults wre "not covered" as they were down to "wear and tear" - what worries me is if the old AJP goes pop they will have a simlar response.
quote:
I was reading the review of the 2002 model 996 in this week's AutoCAR and thought that maybe I ought to test drive one at some point before upgrading to a Cerbera/other TVR. Looks like a very competent car, and with a sports exhaust appears (from their quotes) to sound nice too.
Why is it that the interior trim is always one colour? (seats/door inserts/dash etc.). Do Porsche have the option of at least 2 contrasting colours (say blue/grey or Black/green etc.) to set off a nice, but slightly dull look?
You would be suprised but you can actually have even more flexibility with Porsche to spec a car as you want. They will match paint colours to any sample, will provide leather interiors to match any sample again, you can have rear seats / no rear seats / roll cage / any part of the interior finished in black plastic, leather, carbon or wood, any colour seat belts, 4 different types of seats / 6 different types of wheels / 3 different suspension settings - thing is you get full leather and metallic thrown in as standard so most people dont bother!
Dont ignore the 98-01 3.4L car, mine has a sports exhaust and sounds lovely and if you check Evo they even rate it above the just released model and at 38K upwards it is a bit of a bargain.
Come on Ted time to bin me again!
Ben
quote:
Benno,
Strange - but this thread is meant to about Cerbies, not about poxy porker colours......
someone asked the question, and bennno provided tha answer - whats wrong with that?!?
In his defence - I have found bennnos comments by and large to be more helpful and rational than his detractors. However, I cannot comment on his binned emails
We all end up being products of our own experiences. Bennnos experiences obviously have led him to buy a Porsche. That's his choice. For Gods sake, surely other (TVR) owners are men and women enough to respect this?!?
Rgds, WalterU
wow!!! best thread yet!!
benno, sorry mate but you deserved to be binned. At the end of the day you sold out and bought the porker,now we have to all listen while you tell us how great they are. i dont want to know. I love TVR's and the britishness they stand for. I dont compare them there is no comparison.
Just realised that I only post at 2 am!!!
Monged again!!!
Happy Xmas everyone!!!
Flash
benno, sorry mate but you deserved to be binned. At the end of the day you sold out and bought the porker,now we have to all listen while you tell us how great they are. i dont want to know. I love TVR's and the britishness they stand for. I dont compare them there is no comparison.
Just realised that I only post at 2 am!!!
Monged again!!!
Happy Xmas everyone!!!
Flash
Chaps,
Contrary to what was said earlier in this thread, I didnt say that TVR's were crap (I do own one - though not a Cerbera - but looking forward to upgrading sometime in 2002). I am trying to get some genuine comments from owners / past-owners as to why they are prepared to put up with the pain of the ownership....
I did notice that someone (sorry cant remember the name) had a Speed 6 and ditched it quick for a Porsche (personal choice) - thats fine, as it is your choice. However, if they are proving to be such a pain, why put up with them? Or put the question another way - how much pain are you prepared to put up with for the car? or another way - does the pleasure outweigh the pain? etc etc etc etc....
You get my point? Not being negative, but trying to solicit genuine opinions that people can comment on and have a discussion.... I though that is what a discussion board was for - correct me if I am wrong..?
Cheers,
Paul
Contrary to what was said earlier in this thread, I didnt say that TVR's were crap (I do own one - though not a Cerbera - but looking forward to upgrading sometime in 2002). I am trying to get some genuine comments from owners / past-owners as to why they are prepared to put up with the pain of the ownership....
I did notice that someone (sorry cant remember the name) had a Speed 6 and ditched it quick for a Porsche (personal choice) - thats fine, as it is your choice. However, if they are proving to be such a pain, why put up with them? Or put the question another way - how much pain are you prepared to put up with for the car? or another way - does the pleasure outweigh the pain? etc etc etc etc....
You get my point? Not being negative, but trying to solicit genuine opinions that people can comment on and have a discussion.... I though that is what a discussion board was for - correct me if I am wrong..?
Cheers,
Paul
Sorry I've been out of the frame for 36 hours but business got in the way. This thread seems to have started something.
An interesting point has been made about dealer reliability. It's certainly bad enough having a fragile car but then componding the situation with incompetent, avaricious or indifferent dealers makes it a nightmare. Naming and shaming is a good idea but be very very careful to keep it totally factual or you will be in court for libel before the ink dries.I have noticed that TVR dealer attitudes generally have taken a downturn progressively over the last 3 years and so too has the factory's willingness to compensate owners for out of warranty faults that really shouldn't occur. This may suggest as has been widely rumoured that the AJP and Speed Six engines are proving to be, for TVR, the straw that broke the camels back and they are struggling to keep up with and pay for the consequential warranty work and costs. This does not look good for the future. The dealer I use most often is Henley and that is simply because they are the nearest. Suffice to say, if there was another within a sensible distance with a good reputation I would probably switch. Brooklands, in Exeter really impressed me once with their help one Christmas Eve when I broke down in my old 4.2 on the M5 just South of Bristol with no oil pressure (jammed open pressure relief valve). AA relay got me there and they dropped everything to fix it on the spot (one and a half hours work)in an already full workshop. The car was only at 4500 miles and at the next service in Henley (6000), as the car was being driven off the ramp to be given back to me, the power steering and oil pressure failed as the drive jackshaft snapped on startup. Result - car back to factory for 6 weeks, no replacement, no sorry, no nothing!
On another matter, I often see comments from people along the lines of "yes but isn't it brillant how a little company like TVR can produce engines of it's own that are so powerful". The answer to that it NO ITS NOT!!! Any competent and skilled team of mechanical engineers given access to a powerful enough design computer and a machine shop can build a powerful engine. As to whether it will start every time, run reliably day in day out, tolerate start stop operation and thermal cycling is an entirely diffent matter. The real skill is to achieve all that and the reality we are all finding out is that TVR do not have the development resources to make it happen. The result is the poor customer becomes the test bed (totally unforgivable on a £10,000 car, let alone a £50,000 one)and the minute warranty runs out - sorry mate its your problem now.
My advice is be prepared to get very pushy with the dealer and the factory. Remember, the warranty does not constitute a legally binding contract on your part. You are protected by sale of goods legislation that demands that you are sold goods and services of merchandisable quality. Now this is a loose term and open to interpretation but there are many instances where clearly you have a case in law. My 4.5 upper wishbone bushes have worn again in just 4000 miles but as the last change was done 7 months ago, the factory and dealer dont really want to know (repairs you will note are only covered for 6 months). Now I may be missing something here but I dont see how time makes these wear out. Nor, according to my solicitor, would a court.
The point I really want to make is that the more people that unreasonably defend TVR (especially those who do not or have never owned one) and the more that make excuses on their behalf, the more the factory & dealers are going to get away with it and give us poor sods short shrift. Think about it!
An interesting point has been made about dealer reliability. It's certainly bad enough having a fragile car but then componding the situation with incompetent, avaricious or indifferent dealers makes it a nightmare. Naming and shaming is a good idea but be very very careful to keep it totally factual or you will be in court for libel before the ink dries.I have noticed that TVR dealer attitudes generally have taken a downturn progressively over the last 3 years and so too has the factory's willingness to compensate owners for out of warranty faults that really shouldn't occur. This may suggest as has been widely rumoured that the AJP and Speed Six engines are proving to be, for TVR, the straw that broke the camels back and they are struggling to keep up with and pay for the consequential warranty work and costs. This does not look good for the future. The dealer I use most often is Henley and that is simply because they are the nearest. Suffice to say, if there was another within a sensible distance with a good reputation I would probably switch. Brooklands, in Exeter really impressed me once with their help one Christmas Eve when I broke down in my old 4.2 on the M5 just South of Bristol with no oil pressure (jammed open pressure relief valve). AA relay got me there and they dropped everything to fix it on the spot (one and a half hours work)in an already full workshop. The car was only at 4500 miles and at the next service in Henley (6000), as the car was being driven off the ramp to be given back to me, the power steering and oil pressure failed as the drive jackshaft snapped on startup. Result - car back to factory for 6 weeks, no replacement, no sorry, no nothing!
On another matter, I often see comments from people along the lines of "yes but isn't it brillant how a little company like TVR can produce engines of it's own that are so powerful". The answer to that it NO ITS NOT!!! Any competent and skilled team of mechanical engineers given access to a powerful enough design computer and a machine shop can build a powerful engine. As to whether it will start every time, run reliably day in day out, tolerate start stop operation and thermal cycling is an entirely diffent matter. The real skill is to achieve all that and the reality we are all finding out is that TVR do not have the development resources to make it happen. The result is the poor customer becomes the test bed (totally unforgivable on a £10,000 car, let alone a £50,000 one)and the minute warranty runs out - sorry mate its your problem now.
My advice is be prepared to get very pushy with the dealer and the factory. Remember, the warranty does not constitute a legally binding contract on your part. You are protected by sale of goods legislation that demands that you are sold goods and services of merchandisable quality. Now this is a loose term and open to interpretation but there are many instances where clearly you have a case in law. My 4.5 upper wishbone bushes have worn again in just 4000 miles but as the last change was done 7 months ago, the factory and dealer dont really want to know (repairs you will note are only covered for 6 months). Now I may be missing something here but I dont see how time makes these wear out. Nor, according to my solicitor, would a court.
The point I really want to make is that the more people that unreasonably defend TVR (especially those who do not or have never owned one) and the more that make excuses on their behalf, the more the factory & dealers are going to get away with it and give us poor sods short shrift. Think about it!
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