Discussion
Green stuff are exciting when cold, I agree. I don't run a servo and generally use the gears/brakes combination to slow down. Brakes are only really used for big slowdowns. They are good when warm but it takes a while (a lot of my journeys are short). I have never seen so much dust on my rims. It's ridiculous (also running new discs).
I think green stuff are OK if you want to drive like a fool to get some heat into them. I take it easy when leaving the village. It's a real opportunity for brown trousers otherwise!
I think green stuff are OK if you want to drive like a fool to get some heat into them. I take it easy when leaving the village. It's a real opportunity for brown trousers otherwise!
fwdracer said:
I've watched this thread with interest and to save peopel a few pennies and some disappointment, I feel time is ripe to add my thoughts. CM pads aren't suitable for Road Mini's. Full Stop.
It is debatable whether they are any good for race applications (feel free to look at my profile) - due to low vehicle weight. I've used them, and quite frankly CM pads aren't up to much unles you value a dead pedal feel, poor modulation, and a new set of under pants every time you need to pull up with discs in cold/cool disc condition. Ideal for road... I think not.
There are better alternatives out there....
edited to add ...I don't use servo.
>> Edited by fwdracer on Wednesday 17th May 14:41
what pads and calipers do you use on the se7en garath?
We don’t have servo in our mini7 but use cm pads, and win races, fantastic feel we have changed the master cylinder to 5/8" and shortened the travel in the rear brake pressure reducing valve to 0.010" also the pads will last more than a seasons racing, excellent value and probably ok for road use
Thanks for everyones input, which makes for an interesting thread. I wondered about the servo and CM pads because of the (very) old vizard advice of using harder pads with a servo or softer without. Mind you it has occured to me that as i ride a push bike over 7000 miles a year (bl00dy minis) i'm not lacking any leg strength!
I remain tempted with the CM pads as by most accounts the alternative, ie green stuff are awful, particularly from cold. I have been using black stuff, til it went in to the shed last year for a complete rebuild, respray and new almost everything.
I'm quite happy to try them for the sake of £50, but what threw me was the advice to use grooved discs with green stuff but that would negate the opportunity to try CM. My discs need replacing as theyve rusted around the outer edge. Sod it, if i just get solid discs again and try different pads, starting with CMs.
Pete cooperman has been quite specific all along about the minispares performance industries pads, so i'm curious if some of the negative comments about CM refer to other makes of pad? And, the thing is green stuff just dont seem to be a viable alternative?
I remain tempted with the CM pads as by most accounts the alternative, ie green stuff are awful, particularly from cold. I have been using black stuff, til it went in to the shed last year for a complete rebuild, respray and new almost everything.
I'm quite happy to try them for the sake of £50, but what threw me was the advice to use grooved discs with green stuff but that would negate the opportunity to try CM. My discs need replacing as theyve rusted around the outer edge. Sod it, if i just get solid discs again and try different pads, starting with CMs.
Pete cooperman has been quite specific all along about the minispares performance industries pads, so i'm curious if some of the negative comments about CM refer to other makes of pad? And, the thing is green stuff just dont seem to be a viable alternative?
No Se7en's use Servos..... All on series regulation Cooper S Calipers and I stick to good OEM quality discs and no grooves. Pads I keep close to my chest. I don't win races, but then again I don't have a huge budget to play with and where my competive adavantge is (it isn't in multiple £K engines!!) I keep to myself. 
If you Email me direct....
If you Email me direct....
Maybe it's all a question of application and brake specification.
For example, Gareth and Rich both race and their brakes probably don't get the 'stick' a rally pad does on long tarmac tests. On a circuit the braking points are, broadly, known except for unforseen 'moments'. Rallying is somewhat different as even on full pace notes the brakes do get extreme use and 'dabbing' to set the car up into different features. So, for my use, I look for a good fade resistance at high temperatures, consistent pedal pressure at all temperatures and an overall average to good road performance, including from cold. I'm not allowed grooved discs under historic rules, nor 4-pot calipers.
I have tried most everything from DS11 up to C-M, and there may be more than one type of C-M available which I haven't tried. The ones I used were from Mini Spares and Rich can tell you what they are, I just ask for some more when needed! I do use original discs and the wear rate is fine. The only time wear was an issue was years ago with DS11's.
However, I didn't like them without a servo, but I don't like any 'S' brakes without a servo - personal thing I guess.
For example, Gareth and Rich both race and their brakes probably don't get the 'stick' a rally pad does on long tarmac tests. On a circuit the braking points are, broadly, known except for unforseen 'moments'. Rallying is somewhat different as even on full pace notes the brakes do get extreme use and 'dabbing' to set the car up into different features. So, for my use, I look for a good fade resistance at high temperatures, consistent pedal pressure at all temperatures and an overall average to good road performance, including from cold. I'm not allowed grooved discs under historic rules, nor 4-pot calipers.
I have tried most everything from DS11 up to C-M, and there may be more than one type of C-M available which I haven't tried. The ones I used were from Mini Spares and Rich can tell you what they are, I just ask for some more when needed! I do use original discs and the wear rate is fine. The only time wear was an issue was years ago with DS11's.
However, I didn't like them without a servo, but I don't like any 'S' brakes without a servo - personal thing I guess.
Hi Gareth, you must know we also don’t have huge budget, in fact we use the tyres that other competitors put in the bin and win with them. Our engines are not the cheapest or the most expensive just good value and reliable, one customer winning 9 out of the 12 Mini 7 races last season. Good luck for 2006
haynes said:
With minispares 4 pot calipers on 7.5" discs ive found that the outside of the pads are positioned slightly outboard of the end of the disc. Ive got what look like a decent set of used 8.4 grooved discs and was thinking of having them machined down. Does anyone know if i just ask them to machine to 7.9", is that the exact dimmension?
Ive also found that the 7.5 minispares supplied discs suffer from a fair bit of corrosion yet the 8.4s ive had in my damp cellar all winter are untouched. Are there better quality 7.5" discs to be had?
To return to the original post...
i've got exactly the same concern about my calipers, the pads seem to overhang the edge of the disk, clearly i'm not the only person in the world with this problem...
I run black stuff (no servo) and they have been generally fine, although the other day in the wet the brakes were decidedly iffy, was cold and horrible though... will definitely try something else.
other problems/issues with these calipers that ive had, just to see if other people have had the same issues:
unable to get a socket onto the caliper bolts - means the hub has to come off to take the caliper off, and you have to use a spanner at a horrendous angle to tighten the bolts up... not so good.
they seem to run unnessecarily close to the wheels (5" Mamba, 5" Revolution, 6" Mercury), - you cant run 5" mambas without spacers end of.
they seem to run extremely close to the drive flanges.
the bleed nipples feel like they are about to strip the thread out of the caliper before they seal properly.
they are a pain in the backside to bleed up - i still have a soggy pedal, although it will 'pump up' its pretty annoying.
otherwise, jam the brakes on and they do stop, modulation is superb, just wish the niggles were less, wonder what mini sport caliper are like - anyone run these?
cheers - sorry for the long post,
Simon
simon
you answer most of your questions yourself t.b.h
the pads are designed to work on a car supplied with 12 or 13" wheels. you are running them in calipers on 10" wheels. the pad overhang on the front varys according to which pads, discs and hubs you run. the hole centres move all over on the hubs - particually the non o.e ones. the pads sit flush with the edge of the disc on my set. if the pads sat any further in the calipers not only would they then foul the disc, but the holes for the pins would then intrude into the bores of the pistons. alloy four pots (of any manufacture) will always be a little comprimised due to suppliers using o.e seals, piston sizes and pads.
there is no problem with the calipers running near to the flange as long as everything is tight.
dont understand your point about sockets. have you tried using a normal socket or a 3/8th drive. its not an issue ive ever heard of been a problem.
the minispares calipers where designed well over ten years ago, a couple of years they changed to billit alloy, at this time the bleed nipples where dropped a bit to make cleance less of a problem on 'old' wheels like mambas. most people who used them before this just filed the nipples down to get the clearance.
most problems with brake pedal feel etc can usually be traced to customer fitment. not bleeding them correctly, using old fluid, fitting them upside down, loosing the nipples and using imperial ones. one thing to try on a new set if they feel funny is to remove the pads and get a mate to press the brake pedal whilst you watch the pistons come out. they all should move equally and freely. sometime the seals 'grip' the pistons and act like springs. this happens on the new cast iron calipers as well.
i know for a fact how much effort was put into designing the later billet calipers, the rigerous testing they went through, and the ruthless destruction and testing of the few sets that come back under warrenty. so far not one single set has been found to have a fault as supplied from the manufacturer.
you answer most of your questions yourself t.b.h
the pads are designed to work on a car supplied with 12 or 13" wheels. you are running them in calipers on 10" wheels. the pad overhang on the front varys according to which pads, discs and hubs you run. the hole centres move all over on the hubs - particually the non o.e ones. the pads sit flush with the edge of the disc on my set. if the pads sat any further in the calipers not only would they then foul the disc, but the holes for the pins would then intrude into the bores of the pistons. alloy four pots (of any manufacture) will always be a little comprimised due to suppliers using o.e seals, piston sizes and pads.
there is no problem with the calipers running near to the flange as long as everything is tight.
dont understand your point about sockets. have you tried using a normal socket or a 3/8th drive. its not an issue ive ever heard of been a problem.
the minispares calipers where designed well over ten years ago, a couple of years they changed to billit alloy, at this time the bleed nipples where dropped a bit to make cleance less of a problem on 'old' wheels like mambas. most people who used them before this just filed the nipples down to get the clearance.
most problems with brake pedal feel etc can usually be traced to customer fitment. not bleeding them correctly, using old fluid, fitting them upside down, loosing the nipples and using imperial ones. one thing to try on a new set if they feel funny is to remove the pads and get a mate to press the brake pedal whilst you watch the pistons come out. they all should move equally and freely. sometime the seals 'grip' the pistons and act like springs. this happens on the new cast iron calipers as well.
i know for a fact how much effort was put into designing the later billet calipers, the rigerous testing they went through, and the ruthless destruction and testing of the few sets that come back under warrenty. so far not one single set has been found to have a fault as supplied from the manufacturer.
I run the new minspares billit alloy caliper on my sprint car and they fit and operate perfectly. I did have to pump the pistons out when I first fitted them to get a good pedal but that was due the very stiff piston seals. The disc pads do overhang the 7.5" discs but that is not an issue, they work well and 6 x 10 minilites fit nicely
>> Edited by kjw911 on Thursday 18th May 21:12
>> Edited by kjw911 on Thursday 18th May 21:15
>> Edited by kjw911 on Thursday 18th May 21:12
>> Edited by kjw911 on Thursday 18th May 21:15
hi,
i will try and get some pictures of my calipers and hubs to show you what i mean about the socket thing as they are going to have to come off to change a set of wheel bearings... will try a different set of sockets now i'm back at uni and have access to the Uni motor club tools... also will have another go at bleeding them when it is all back together and see if i can get a better pedal.
cheers,
Simon
i will try and get some pictures of my calipers and hubs to show you what i mean about the socket thing as they are going to have to come off to change a set of wheel bearings... will try a different set of sockets now i'm back at uni and have access to the Uni motor club tools... also will have another go at bleeding them when it is all back together and see if i can get a better pedal.
cheers,
Simon
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