Lotus Twin-Cam Mini
Discussion
I originally planned for the twinky top end conversion, however I priced the Job and it was going to be an astronomical project, so I decided to go the 8 valve route.
I am now running a big 8 valve cross flow head, fed by twin 40's with a cossie profile cam on a 711M block with a two piece crank, mounted to a mini straight cut box.
I started with was a set of instructions, and I am pleased to say the project went reasonably well. I machined a test block, that doubled as a jig for welding the gearbox casing and sump. The worst part of the job was actually milling the 711M block, heart in my mouth! My biggest issue once i got it installed was the torque, I have wrecked several clutches on and off the rollers. I finally settled running a grey spring with an AP racing plate, and its heavy. I do like the way that it drives though and with an RC40 exhaust, it sounds great!
I am not sure about the Magazine car, hopefully I can get my hands on a copy this weekend to take a look, however once I decided on a period conversion, I originally looked at a round nose, however after not being able to fit it all under without cutting holes in the bonnet, I brought a new project car a clubby.
I am now running a big 8 valve cross flow head, fed by twin 40's with a cossie profile cam on a 711M block with a two piece crank, mounted to a mini straight cut box.
I started with was a set of instructions, and I am pleased to say the project went reasonably well. I machined a test block, that doubled as a jig for welding the gearbox casing and sump. The worst part of the job was actually milling the 711M block, heart in my mouth! My biggest issue once i got it installed was the torque, I have wrecked several clutches on and off the rollers. I finally settled running a grey spring with an AP racing plate, and its heavy. I do like the way that it drives though and with an RC40 exhaust, it sounds great!
I am not sure about the Magazine car, hopefully I can get my hands on a copy this weekend to take a look, however once I decided on a period conversion, I originally looked at a round nose, however after not being able to fit it all under without cutting holes in the bonnet, I brought a new project car a clubby.
I would be very very interested in eyeballing a copy of the plans.
A modern take on the classic design would be great. Perhaps a zetec/duratec (alloy one).
I have no intention whatsoever in actually doing one, but it's something I'd like to romanticise over.
My mate has a 61 mini in the shed and a ford/twini would be pretty exciting.
A modern take on the classic design would be great. Perhaps a zetec/duratec (alloy one).
I have no intention whatsoever in actually doing one, but it's something I'd like to romanticise over.
My mate has a 61 mini in the shed and a ford/twini would be pretty exciting.
interloper said:
PJR said:
A handful of people have done this conversion. If I remember rightly........ That engine is based on the Ford BDA engine (which Lotus reworked).
I hate to be a pedant but the Lotus Twink came first. The twin cam was based I believe on an old Ford side valve engine (with the Lotus designed head replacing the rubbish side valve one). The Cosworth BDA came along later. The Lotus engine had already appeared in mk1 and 2 Cortinas and it had a very short life in the MK1 Escort Twin Cam, the replacement was of course the the BDA propelled RS1600. interloper said:
PJR said:
A handful of people have done this conversion. If I remember rightly........ That engine is based on the Ford BDA engine (which Lotus reworked).
I hate to be a pedant but the Lotus Twink came first. The twin cam was based I believe on an old Ford side valve engine (with the Lotus designed head replacing the rubbish side valve one). The Cosworth BDA came along later. The Lotus engine had already appeared in mk1 and 2 Cortinas and it had a very short life in the MK1 Escort Twin Cam, the replacement was of course the the BDA propelled RS1600. Hi Guys,
I'm a newbie here, but I came across this thread and though i might be able to shed a little light on the history of the Lotus Twin Cam Mini. As far as I know the original version was built in my father's workshop (Hunter & Delbridge Speed Equipment) in Sydney around 1967 for John 'Jumbo' Goddard (google him for some background).
Jumbo's 998 Mini Van was in the workshop for an engine rebuild, the gearbox was sitting on a workbench and one of the workers had placed a Lotus block and head on top to make space on the bench. Jumbo walked in to check on progress on the various projects dad had going for him (a Bugatti 35C restoration, Fraser Nash Fane Special restoration among others), took one look and told dad he thought that was a capital idea and how soon would it be ready! In reality it took a lot of engineering to sort it out, including lengthening the front guards and bonnet by six inches to keep everything hidden and looking kosher.
The car was used at hillclimbs and sprints and as a regular driver by Jumbo for many years without any dramas. It was clocked at 140mph at some point in its career. One quirk was the hand throttle Jumbo insisted on so he could warm the engine before driving without sitting in the car and blipping the throttle. Around 1985 I discovered the van back at dad's old premises (then under new ownership) but sadly the body had rusted away, and a subsequent owner had bent a rod from memory. As tempted as I was to buy it, it was beyond my financial means to restore it, so I believe it was split up for parts. Thus ended the first Lotus Twin Cam Mini. That the design elements were copied was only natural, it was a very rapid and effective device.
I'm a newbie here, but I came across this thread and though i might be able to shed a little light on the history of the Lotus Twin Cam Mini. As far as I know the original version was built in my father's workshop (Hunter & Delbridge Speed Equipment) in Sydney around 1967 for John 'Jumbo' Goddard (google him for some background).
Jumbo's 998 Mini Van was in the workshop for an engine rebuild, the gearbox was sitting on a workbench and one of the workers had placed a Lotus block and head on top to make space on the bench. Jumbo walked in to check on progress on the various projects dad had going for him (a Bugatti 35C restoration, Fraser Nash Fane Special restoration among others), took one look and told dad he thought that was a capital idea and how soon would it be ready! In reality it took a lot of engineering to sort it out, including lengthening the front guards and bonnet by six inches to keep everything hidden and looking kosher.
The car was used at hillclimbs and sprints and as a regular driver by Jumbo for many years without any dramas. It was clocked at 140mph at some point in its career. One quirk was the hand throttle Jumbo insisted on so he could warm the engine before driving without sitting in the car and blipping the throttle. Around 1985 I discovered the van back at dad's old premises (then under new ownership) but sadly the body had rusted away, and a subsequent owner had bent a rod from memory. As tempted as I was to buy it, it was beyond my financial means to restore it, so I believe it was split up for parts. Thus ended the first Lotus Twin Cam Mini. That the design elements were copied was only natural, it was a very rapid and effective device.
A couple of names from the past, Bill Coldwell [Ithink] was in Shefield area in the60/70's did some wild things with mini engines ,Geoff Wood from Lincs raced a Bda mini in Northern Special saloons, Cedric Bell had a1000 FJ screamer on the mini box round about the same time ,raced regularly at Croft hth oem
RS09 said:
interloper said:
PJR said:
A handful of people have done this conversion. If I remember rightly........ That engine is based on the Ford BDA engine (which Lotus reworked).
I hate to be a pedant but the Lotus Twink came first. The twin cam was based I believe on an old Ford side valve engine (with the Lotus designed head replacing the rubbish side valve one). The Cosworth BDA came along later. The Lotus engine had already appeared in mk1 and 2 Cortinas and it had a very short life in the MK1 Escort Twin Cam, the replacement was of course the the BDA propelled RS1600. It did use the Lotus head/engine, and that wasn't the reason it wasn't called a Lotus Escort.
Hi all,
As always with these stories, find your answers in books/magazines from back then(AUTOSPORT)
and NOT today, as all stories gets better with the years.
Famues tuner/racecarbuilder/raceteammanager/racedriver/ and the list goes on
mr Jan Ódor of JANSPEED Salisbury England built a Cosworth/Ford engine into his S.C.A Mini for the 1967 season.
The car was the fastest 1000cc Mini in the country. The single overhead cam Alloy engine did 9800 revs down the straight, and reached more than 115 mph.
The whole story, incl closeup pictures of all components & gearbox, is to be found in the article.
It has 8 pictures, and loads of info in the tekst, incl JANSPEED making a Ford Twin Cam version too.
Jens Christian
As always with these stories, find your answers in books/magazines from back then(AUTOSPORT)
and NOT today, as all stories gets better with the years.
Famues tuner/racecarbuilder/raceteammanager/racedriver/ and the list goes on
mr Jan Ódor of JANSPEED Salisbury England built a Cosworth/Ford engine into his S.C.A Mini for the 1967 season.The car was the fastest 1000cc Mini in the country. The single overhead cam Alloy engine did 9800 revs down the straight, and reached more than 115 mph.
The whole story, incl closeup pictures of all components & gearbox, is to be found in the article.
It has 8 pictures, and loads of info in the tekst, incl JANSPEED making a Ford Twin Cam version too.
Jens Christian
Hi Cam,
Not a nice story
here is what happened to his son Kieth,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD9jhGwkPl4
after that JanÓdor stopped, and not much info is to be found.
I have spoken his former Chief mechanic, and he said he retired himself.
next year the company has 50 years jubilee, I hope to bring my car to England then.
Jens Christian
Not a nice story
here is what happened to his son Kieth, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD9jhGwkPl4
after that JanÓdor stopped, and not much info is to be found.
I have spoken his former Chief mechanic, and he said he retired himself.
next year the company has 50 years jubilee, I hope to bring my car to England then.
Jens Christian
Hi Jens,
.
I knew this sad story. R.I.P. Keith! He was a real hardcore race diver.
Jan Odor dissapiered since that time. No info. Just thought somebody may know his whereabout.
In 2012 the IMM will be in Hungary, and since he was a hungarian, the organizers thought he may be happy if the invite him to be a celebrated guest of the event.
Unfortunatly they could not find him.
.
I knew this sad story. R.I.P. Keith! He was a real hardcore race diver.
Jan Odor dissapiered since that time. No info. Just thought somebody may know his whereabout.
In 2012 the IMM will be in Hungary, and since he was a hungarian, the organizers thought he may be happy if the invite him to be a celebrated guest of the event.
Unfortunatly they could not find him.
Hi Cam,
yes very sad, if only he had driven a LHD car, great shame.
Regarding IMM 2012, have you contact with the orgenizer ?
I could try to speak with Simon again ?
He must be able to contact him/find him ?
I have tried on some of these phone trace websites, but nothing turned up.
I think it would be a GREAT shame if this jubilee went on un noticed
JANSPEED had the vision, to keep thinking of new ways,to tune cars.
All the other famues 60ies tuning companies are gone.
I really really hope that something is done in England 2012.
Jens Christian
PS see this link (you might need to log in)
some of these people make a magazine about Mini,s and they dont know about JANSPEED
??
http://specialistminiforums.yuku.com/topic/16700/I...
JANSPEED build 4 cars for Abingdon in 1968 (London - Sydney)
have won soo many races, and had all the good drivers in their team
Tom Walkinshaw - Richard Longman - Geoff Mabbs - etc
yes very sad, if only he had driven a LHD car, great shame.
Regarding IMM 2012, have you contact with the orgenizer ?
I could try to speak with Simon again ?
He must be able to contact him/find him ?
I have tried on some of these phone trace websites, but nothing turned up.
I think it would be a GREAT shame if this jubilee went on un noticed
JANSPEED had the vision, to keep thinking of new ways,to tune cars.
All the other famues 60ies tuning companies are gone.
I really really hope that something is done in England 2012.
Jens Christian
PS see this link (you might need to log in)
some of these people make a magazine about Mini,s and they dont know about JANSPEED
?? http://specialistminiforums.yuku.com/topic/16700/I...
JANSPEED build 4 cars for Abingdon in 1968 (London - Sydney)
have won soo many races, and had all the good drivers in their team
Tom Walkinshaw - Richard Longman - Geoff Mabbs - etc
Edited by JC T ONE on Saturday 29th January 23:54
camelotr said:
"I really really hope that something is done in England 2012."
Or we can celebrate the event in Hungary.
Yes that would also be great, but the reason I want to bring the car back to England, Or we can celebrate the event in Hungary.
is that I want to meet up with JanSpeed,s Chief mechanic Simon,and mr Collins from Wood & Pickett.
I would love to get a photograph with them next to my car, as they built it.
If Jan Ódor came to IMM in Hungary could this also be a nice thing'
I never hoped to meet "the man" himself, that would be awesome.
I found & bought a genuine JANSPEED Rally jacket-
same as Jan is wearing on the cover, of one of their catalouges.
I also have a JANSPEED Turbo tiepin / cufflinks / keyring - etc.
Cheers JC
JC T ONE said:
If Jan Ódor came to IMM in Hungary could this also be a nice thing'
I never hoped to meet "the man" himself, that would be awesome.
Cheers JC
Why not? Lets work together. If You have a living connect to Janspeed, You may be able to locate Janos, and soo I will do my own part to get the organizers to the point. I never hoped to meet "the man" himself, that would be awesome.
Cheers JC
I think that would be nice. And maybe a tribute to Jan Odor and his company.
aeropilot said:
Wrong.
It did use the Lotus head/engine, and that wasn't the reason it wasn't called a Lotus Escort.
I saw Lotus Twinkie on a Mini gearbox about 1970 at a Car Show at Olympia. It was just sitting on the floor of someone's stand being ignored by everyone. I was astonished and gazed at it for ages in admiration.It did use the Lotus head/engine, and that wasn't the reason it wasn't called a Lotus Escort.
Thanks Jens, it is interesting to know that Janspeed built one in Europe around the same time as dad's version in Sydney. The tale i related is not second hand or elaborated - I was there at the time and was driven around in the van while it was tested. I do know that dad was unaware of any other attempt to create such a car as he would happily have imported someone else's knowledge on the subject so he could concentrate on the main aspects of the business - race cars and vintage car restoration. One of my regrets is that there are very few photographs of the cars that were built in his workshop - it would be much easier to show people what was done there.
guru_1071 said:
ben
the e series box is very tall, so you would need a huge bump in the bonnet (if you where trying to get a crossflow on top) + all the flanges where different (to a mini box) . thats before you start to struggle with the ratios, final drive, getting the drive from the crank to the box - its a whole load more problems.
ive seen people fit the complete maxi engine into a (road going) mini, but the extra grunt / strength of the box / 5 gears was utterly removed by the huge weight and understeering issues that it resulted in! - in fact it was very similar to the modern vauxhaull engine - great top end at the expense of just about everying else!!!
dont forget that many of these hybrid engine on mini gearboxes where designed for motorsport - not road use, where the rules of the day usually stated:- original gearcase must be used......
all very true. these engines were designed at great expensive to do one thing win races, there is no denieing that it would be horrid on the road and yes proberly cheaper to get a bmw head conversion, but we are talking about true british motorsport heritage here.the e series box is very tall, so you would need a huge bump in the bonnet (if you where trying to get a crossflow on top) + all the flanges where different (to a mini box) . thats before you start to struggle with the ratios, final drive, getting the drive from the crank to the box - its a whole load more problems.
ive seen people fit the complete maxi engine into a (road going) mini, but the extra grunt / strength of the box / 5 gears was utterly removed by the huge weight and understeering issues that it resulted in! - in fact it was very similar to the modern vauxhaull engine - great top end at the expense of just about everying else!!!
dont forget that many of these hybrid engine on mini gearboxes where designed for motorsport - not road use, where the rules of the day usually stated:- original gearcase must be used......
i no of the wee abouts of a proper bd alloy blocked 1600cc engine and head on a mini box, not a cheap horrid manx conversion, its a proper engine.
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