Igenium oil dilution / early service indicator
Discussion
I have a Jan 2017 new design Range Rover Vogue which had exactly the same dilution problem, it flagged up every 6,000 miles as service required, I took it back to the LR garage and LR have so far paid for several oil filter and oil changes but its not at all convenient. Up to this month LR have claimed driving style as a cause which cant be right. I have some history with this car as I have had a series of instrument related faults around the sat nav, DEF indicator, sensors and Radio which have meant it has been in a few times so both LR and the Garage are, possibly as a result, very helpful. I am not doing all short journeys and have so far done 30,000 miles since new. I finally cracked in June and said the car isn't fit for purpose and not what you expect from a vehicle costing £85k, the garage took it in this week and have raised a fault with LR, a lot of tests have just been done and LR advised that the oil sensor should be replaced, I wonder if that is the problem, it feels like a generic issue with the new engine design?
Reading with interest. Personally if I paid good money for these cars I wouldn’t run my engine for 20k miles before changing the engine oil even if the manufacturer said it’s possible.
Driving styles vary considerably I understand but common sense tells me the first two oil changes on a new car are the most important as a brand new engine is run in.
First oil change is usually due after 500 Miles as it’s basically flushing the engine. The second oil change after another 2000 Miles is the one where I would expect an engine has been carefully warmed up and driven very sympathetically to make sure all components bed in nicely.
Just my opinion though
Driving styles vary considerably I understand but common sense tells me the first two oil changes on a new car are the most important as a brand new engine is run in.
First oil change is usually due after 500 Miles as it’s basically flushing the engine. The second oil change after another 2000 Miles is the one where I would expect an engine has been carefully warmed up and driven very sympathetically to make sure all components bed in nicely.
Just my opinion though
Just to add my story to this thread...
Bought a new 3.0 TDV6 Vogue in May 2016, it has done 36k and has called for a service every 5k miles without fail (all of the interim oil changes were done under warranty). I admit in the week the car does lots of short journeys, but I was not asked about my driving style before buying and have owned lots of diesel cars without issue. I only hope my car does not suffer early engine wear due to this design fault, maybe the oil sensor is compensating but so far LR have not found a fault with my car....they just keep replacing the oil (7 times now!). It's a shame as the car has been great apart from this issue, I would like to keep it for another 3yrs at least, difficult to know what this car will be like at 70k+ miles in a few years and outside manufacturers warranty.
Bought a new 3.0 TDV6 Vogue in May 2016, it has done 36k and has called for a service every 5k miles without fail (all of the interim oil changes were done under warranty). I admit in the week the car does lots of short journeys, but I was not asked about my driving style before buying and have owned lots of diesel cars without issue. I only hope my car does not suffer early engine wear due to this design fault, maybe the oil sensor is compensating but so far LR have not found a fault with my car....they just keep replacing the oil (7 times now!). It's a shame as the car has been great apart from this issue, I would like to keep it for another 3yrs at least, difficult to know what this car will be like at 70k+ miles in a few years and outside manufacturers warranty.
RobXjcoupe said:
Reading with interest. Personally if I paid good money for these cars I wouldn’t run my engine for 20k miles before changing the engine oil even if the manufacturer said it’s possible.
Driving styles vary considerably I understand but common sense tells me the first two oil changes on a new car are the most important as a brand new engine is run in.
First oil change is usually due after 500 Miles as it’s basically flushing the engine. The second oil change after another 2000 Miles is the one where I would expect an engine has been carefully warmed up and driven very sympathetically to make sure all components bed in nicely.
Just my opinion though
1973 called asking for its running in regime back!Driving styles vary considerably I understand but common sense tells me the first two oil changes on a new car are the most important as a brand new engine is run in.
First oil change is usually due after 500 Miles as it’s basically flushing the engine. The second oil change after another 2000 Miles is the one where I would expect an engine has been carefully warmed up and driven very sympathetically to make sure all components bed in nicely.
Just my opinion though
I bought a 67 plate Evoque with 4500 miles on the clock in March 2018. It has now done 12000 and has had the oil and filter changed twice in 6 months plus two Adblue top ups. Seems to need endless services and I have taken this up with LR Customer Services after reading posts in this forum.
Thread revival!
Dropped my March '18 DS into the local main dealer this morning as the service light has come on at less than 7k miles.
Those who have had their oil changes carried out free, did you manage to get that from a dealer other than the supplying? I've been told it's probably oil dilution and that it'll cost me £200.
Unless of course I bought it from them - I didn't - in which case they'll do it for free. Nice!
Dropped my March '18 DS into the local main dealer this morning as the service light has come on at less than 7k miles.
Those who have had their oil changes carried out free, did you manage to get that from a dealer other than the supplying? I've been told it's probably oil dilution and that it'll cost me £200.
Unless of course I bought it from them - I didn't - in which case they'll do it for free. Nice!
PistonBroker said:
Update - my oil dilution is 9.9% apparently.
VIN doesn't come under JLRP00100 they say.
Made me a very kind offer of oil and filter change for £220, down from £244.57. No, thank you!
JLR really doesn't help itself, does it? Next thing they'll be complaining about falling sales.VIN doesn't come under JLRP00100 they say.
Made me a very kind offer of oil and filter change for £220, down from £244.57. No, thank you!
The Leaper said:
I have an LR DS, but it's the first edition with the 2.2L diesel engine. It was an LR owned car so I assume it was a demonstrator/loan car. As regards oil, I've done 14,000 miles in 18 months and just had the oil changed, no top ups in between.
R.
That 2.2 is a ford engine. Completely different unit to the Ingenium 2.0 which is JLR's own engine. Hence it goes wrong more R.
The Ford engine dates back to the mid noughties if memory serves. There was talk of the 2.2s depreciating at a faster rate compared to the Ingenium equipped cars. I'm not sure that will be the case as more problems surface on the Ingenium engine.
Jem0911 said:
My March 17 was free at a different dealer to the supplying dealer.
That's because JLRP00100 takes in 16/17 cars.The stance they seem to be taking on MY18 cars is that we're all rubbish drivers.
Having said that, I joined the Discovery Sport forum yesterday and it turns out Land Rover Customer Service post on there. I now have a response on there telling me this is covered under warranty. Now just waiting for the chap who contacted me as a result of my angry tweets to confirm that.
bakerstreet said:
The Leaper said:
I have an LR DS, but it's the first edition with the 2.2L diesel engine. It was an LR owned car so I assume it was a demonstrator/loan car. As regards oil, I've done 14,000 miles in 18 months and just had the oil changed, no top ups in between.
R.
That 2.2 is a ford engine. Completely different unit to the Ingenium 2.0 which is JLR's own engine. Hence it goes wrong more R.
The Ford engine dates back to the mid noughties if memory serves. There was talk of the 2.2s depreciating at a faster rate compared to the Ingenium equipped cars. I'm not sure that will be the case as more problems surface on the Ingenium engine.
Sheepshanks said:
JLR really doesn't help itself, does it? Next thing they'll be complaining about falling sales.
And laying off staff . . . It's a cracking job they've done on me. This was Mrs PB's decision - we had a Tiguan, I thought we should remain German, perhaps go Audi rather than another Tig, but of course she loved the look of the Evoque and we compromised on the more practical Disco Sport.
I like it as a car and then I also fell hook, line and sinker for how they draw you into the brand - the invite to the off-road experience for instance.
Now, 9 months in, for the sake of a couple of hundred quid, they've shot themselves in the foot.
The Leaper said:
Yes, I am aware that my 2.2 DS has a Ford engine. When the LR 2.0 engine replaced it a few months later the media all reported what a great improvement it was. Time seems to be proving otherwise.
R.
The DS is still relatively young. Give it a another four years and you will get a real idea of cars long term faults. R.
PistonBroker said:
This was Mrs PB's decision - we had a Tiguan, I thought we should remain German, perhaps go Audi rather than another Tig, but of course she loved the look of the Evoque and we compromised on the more practical Disco Sport.
That's exactly where we are - late mk1 DSG 4Motion Tiguan that could do with changing and occasional 7 seats would dead handy. I'd jump at a cheap lease deal but I just don't think I've got the balls to take a chance on owning a DS with my own money.
I've been considering a DS 2 litre, but having discovered the forums, I'm inclined to look for something else. The problem with oil dilution seems to stem from the DPF being too far from the engine to work efficiently; it's been positioned closer on the F-Pace, and works fine. Now someone may correct me, but as I understand it, the exhaust gasses have cooled too much on short runs to burn off the soot, so JLR squirt diesel into the engine so that there's an extra hot burn when the car restarts, except this seeps past the piston rings and dilutes the oil - which can lead to premature wear of the balance shafts in the engine.
JLR trying to blame it on your driving style (which should really be usage style) doesn't wash, because you should be able to run a car pretty much however you like if it's been built properly. When my partner bought her CMax, she was advised to take the car for a good run once a month to burn off the soot or risk the DPF needing to be replaced, but I haven't heard anything like that from JLR. They're supposed to have found a work around, but I haven't managed to find out what it is yet.
JLR trying to blame it on your driving style (which should really be usage style) doesn't wash, because you should be able to run a car pretty much however you like if it's been built properly. When my partner bought her CMax, she was advised to take the car for a good run once a month to burn off the soot or risk the DPF needing to be replaced, but I haven't heard anything like that from JLR. They're supposed to have found a work around, but I haven't managed to find out what it is yet.
Friend of mine is considering buying a Discovery 5 with the 2.0 Diesel engine. Does this have the same issue or is it fixed like the F Pace ? Most of the posters on here seem to have Sports or Evoques with the dilution problem rather than the 5. My wife’s D4 has been brilliant over the last 8 years and despite mainly short urban trips between long runs to Devon has never had a problem - I think the DPF regen warning has only come on twice in all that time. Shame the newer cars are not proving as reliable.
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