Are Land Rover dealers struggling?

[So]

wilwak said:

Clearly, from the reviews, JLR products can have issues but I wonder if it’s a minority rather than a majority?

In my (fairly extensive) experience not. The default is for a car to have a lot of niggling issues in the first six months. After the second snagging list is sorted you’ve usually got an ok car.

An aside: Before I first started buying Range Rovers there seemed to be a secret code amongst owners that they didn’t talk about faults. They all gave the impression that their cars were perfect and many would flatly deny an issues if asked directly. Once I was an owner however, other owners were more open about the endless problems.

I also think it’s quite amusing that LR offers a “conditional 30 day exchange” on their used cars, just in case your first one is a lemon. As far as I am aware they are now legally bound to have the car back anyway within 30 days.

[Barga]

So said:

wilwak said:

Clearly, from the reviews, JLR products can have issues but I wonder if it’s a minority rather than a majority?

In my (fairly extensive) experience not. The default is for a car to have a lot of niggling issues in the first six months. After the second snagging list is sorted you’ve usually got an ok car.

An aside: Before I first started buying Range Rovers there seemed to be a secret code amongst owners that they didn’t talk about faults. They all gave the impression that their cars were perfect and many would flatly deny an issues if asked directly. Once I was an owner however, other owners were more open about the endless problems.

I also think it’s quite amusing that LR offers a “conditional 30 day exchange” on their used cars, just in case your first one is a lemon. As far as I am aware they are now legally bound to have the car back anyway within 30 days.

My wife’s DS has covered 40k miles in just over 3 years and has had zero faults and is still on the original tyres and with the free service pack that was included and the 39.9 mpg average it has been the cheapest and most reliable car we have ever had!

[So]

Barga said:

My wife’s DS has covered 40k miles in just over 3 years and has had zero faults and is still on the original tyres and with the free service pack that was included and the 39.9 mpg average it has been the cheapest and most reliable car we have ever had!

Not even any recalls?

[Barga]

So said:

Barga said:

My wife’s DS has covered 40k miles in just over 3 years and has had zero faults and is still on the original tyres and with the free service pack that was included and the 39.9 mpg average it has been the cheapest and most reliable car we have ever had!

Not even any recalls?

If there was any recalls they were done during the 2 services because the car has only been back twice!
Edit ,3 times,it went in for free adblu between the services.

[Voldemort]

Aside about loan cars:

About 4 cars ago I could see the writing on the wall with loan cars and have since made each dealership I use write me a letter guaranteeing me a similar loan car for any warranty or service work. They squirm. They don't like it. But every one has done it. So far, it's only been needed for one service (of a Smart) where the service department were adamant they didn't have a loan car available. I got a Merc E-class estate for the day.

[Sheepshanks]

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

Do people in the US take any notice of JD Power ratings? LandRover is pretty stuck at the bottom.

JLR sales in the US are down YTD but if LandRover are up then it must be Jag pulling them down. Overall it's China making the big difference - nudging 50% down some months. Solihul has just been shut down for a couple of weeks.

[Glasgowrob]

problems are not the issue with any brand, things happen especially with complex bits of kit like modern cars. its the way the problems are dealt with thats the issue.


no one like when their car breaks or has an issue but if the dealer/manufacturer move heaven and earth to look after you and rectify problems as quickly as possible then the blow is softened.

had a fuel pump failure on my mondeo at a few month old, it took them 6 weeks to source a replacement, grudgingly gave me a loaner for a week then took it back after i refused to pay for the privelige of having a base model fiesta whilst they dithered with my own car.


poor service lack of interest from dealer or manufacturer and a lack of parts availability for spares (6 weeks for a high pressure fuel pump for a mondeo diesel is a pee take) all makes for a negative experience.


now the cars out of warranty its the sole domain of my usual indy.i can pick up the phone night or day and its on the back of a wagon as quick as they can get out to it if it breaks service book it in and turn up when i say i will its in and out in half an hour the coffee is stick the kettle on and make your own and he doesn't have a fancy all singing all dancing tiled workshop but i would never use anyone else. he looks after me and my cars and moves heaven and earth to keep cars on the road. The difference? he actually cares about what he does

[So]

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

I cannot find this quote in the thread, but if you really said it it’s bullst. Sorry.

[swisstoni]

So said:

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

I cannot find this quote in the thread, but if you really said it it’s bullst. Sorry.

Someone’s personal experience is not bullst even if I’d doesn’t fit your preferred direction for this thread.

[Burwood]

swisstoni said:

So said:

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

I cannot find this quote in the thread, but if you really said it it’s bullst. Sorry.

Someone’s personal experience is not bullst even if I’d doesn’t fit your preferred direction for this thread.

It's not 'someone' he works for LR in North America. Vested interest and bias at play. Sister magazine to PH 'Whatcar' surveyed 18,000 car owners and LR products were 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th worst . With over 30% of owners having their cars off the road for over 1 week (per incident). Eyes wide open is the take away.

[swisstoni]

Whatcar surveyed 18000 owners or 18000 readers? Not the same thing.
Which was it?

[So]

swisstoni said:

So said:

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

I cannot find this quote in the thread, but if you really said it it’s bullst. Sorry.

Someone’s personal experience is not bullst even if I’d doesn’t fit your preferred direction for this thread.

It is if they are a Land Rover dealer and claiming the exact opposite of vehicle reliability statistics. They are not a credible witness.

My own experience, and that of peers with Land Rover products, is very much in line with the published data.

So, yes, I am calling bullst.

[swisstoni]

So said:

swisstoni said:

So said:

unrepentant said:

In my experience of having owned 6 and having sold thousands it is absolutely the minority. The problem is that forums exist for people to moan on and satisfied customers rarely bother to post.

I cannot find this quote in the thread, but if you really said it it’s bullst. Sorry.

Someone’s personal experience is not bullst even if I’d doesn’t fit your preferred direction for this thread.

It is if they are a Land Rover dealer and claiming the exact opposite of vehicle reliability statistics. They are not a credible witness.

My own experience, and that of peers with Land Rover products, is very much in line with the published data.

So, yes, I am calling bullst.

Well I’ve had an L405 from new and nothing (yes, nothing) has gone wrong with it in 3 and half years.
(My dealer experience has been a different story but that’s not the car’s fault).

Is that bullst because it doesn’t fit in with you and your ‘peers’ (whatever the hell that means) experience?

[Sheepshanks]

swisstoni said:

Well I’ve had an L405 from new and nothing (yes, nothing) has gone wrong with it in 3 and half years.
(My dealer experience has been a different story but that’s not the car’s fault).

Incredible. You should be a totally satisfied customer but they found a way to mess up.

[swisstoni]

Sheepshanks said:

swisstoni said:

Well I’ve had an L405 from new and nothing (yes, nothing) has gone wrong with it in 3 and half years.
(My dealer experience has been a different story but that’s not the car’s fault).

Incredible. You should be a totally satisfied customer but they found a way to mess up.

Yes they did.
But I come back to my original post on this thread that I believe the brand to be decent but quite often let down by hopeless dealers.

[So]

swisstoni said:

Sheepshanks said:

swisstoni said:

Well I’ve had an L405 from new and nothing (yes, nothing) has gone wrong with it in 3 and half years.
(My dealer experience has been a different story but that’s not the car’s fault).

Incredible. You should be a totally satisfied customer but they found a way to mess up.

Yes they did.
But I come back to my original post on this thread that I believe the brand to be decent but quite often let down by hopeless dealers.

I have had fairly extensive dealings with Land Rover, the manufacturer, over about 20 years. What you believe about them and what I believe is quite different.

I do believe that the products are, by and large, well designed. But Land Rover as a company is, in my experience, . The dealerships largely follow suit.

You may have a Range Rover that has had no issues. I've never had one, and I don't think any of my friends have had one. That's quite a lot of Range Rovers.

I was at the L405 launch and there were probably 40 or so cars there. About 50% of them were faulty. I drove two on the day, One of them had a centre console lid that behaved like an ant-personnel mine. I pushed it down, it opened smoothly on a damper and at the top of its travel it sprung off and spun across the car. The other car, a supercharged as I recall, had a gearbox warning light illuminated, We were treated to a swanky lunch in a castle and had the opportunity to compare notes with other guests. Most of them had found at least one fault on the cars they drove.

So, I dare say there are Range Rovers out there that never have a problem in their lives. But I think they are fewer in number than the people who own them and don't tell the truth.

ETA

N&S comment removed.

Edited by Big Al. on Sunday 25th November 22:04

[unrepentant]

Sheepshanks said:

Do people in the US take any notice of JD Power ratings? LandRover is pretty stuck at the bottom.

JLR sales in the US are down YTD but if LandRover are up then it must be Jag pulling them down. Overall it's China making the big difference - nudging 50% down some months. Solihul has just been shut down for a couple of weeks.

Industry average is .93 reported faults per vehicle according to JD Power (2018 IQS rankings). LR is 1.6 reported faults per vehicle. Top brands are Genesis, Kia and Hyundai with around .7. The difference between 1st and last is relatively small. I think perception and expectation have a lot to do with the ratings but having said that every manufacturer would prefer to be at the top I'm sure.

October sales in the US were a record for JLR combined with LR up 43% year on year. As has been mentioned elsewhere a number of dealers are investing heavily in new or remodeled dealerships. Jaguar sales really took off with the F-Pace in 2017, sedan sales are pretty difficult in this market for everyone. I-Pace deliveries are only just starting and we don't have the PHEV Range Rovers yet. With the new Evoque coming we're looking forward to a strong 2019, as I imagine are most dealers.

I can't comment on the UK market but our customers are constantly surveyed by the manufacturer and the resultant scores are taken very seriously. It varies by dealership but sales consultants and service advisors in most stores receive remuneration based on achieving a very high benchmark score. If you do a crappy job you will get crappy scores and generally you don't last long. A bad survey is flagged by the system and both the manufacturer and the dealership will expect an explanation.

[Sheepshanks]

unrepentant said:

You deleted your post that I replied to.

[Burwood]

unrepentant said:

Sheepshanks said:

Do people in the US take any notice of JD Power ratings? LandRover is pretty stuck at the bottom.

JLR sales in the US are down YTD but if LandRover are up then it must be Jag pulling them down. Overall it's China making the big difference - nudging 50% down some months. Solihul has just been shut down for a couple of weeks.

Industry average is .93 reported faults per vehicle according to JD Power (2018 IQS rankings). LR is 1.6 reported faults per vehicle. Top brands are Genesis, Kia and Hyundai with around .7. The difference between 1st and last is relatively small. I think perception and expectation have a lot to do with the ratings but having said that every manufacturer would prefer to be at the top I'm sure.

October sales in the US were a record for JLR combined with LR up 43% year on year. As has been mentioned elsewhere a number of dealers are investing heavily in new or remodeled dealerships. Jaguar sales really took off with the F-Pace in 2017, sedan sales are pretty difficult in this market for everyone. I-Pace deliveries are only just starting and we don't have the PHEV Range Rovers yet. With the new Evoque coming we're looking forward to a strong 2019, as I imagine are most dealers.

I can't comment on the UK market but our customers are constantly surveyed by the manufacturer and the resultant scores are taken very seriously. It varies by dealership but sales consultants and service advisors in most stores receive remuneration based on achieving a very high benchmark score. If you do a crappy job you will get crappy scores and generally you don't last long. A bad survey is flagged by the system and both the manufacturer and the dealership will expect an explanation.

Either way, I recall your long ago posts well. Mocking in fact of the beleaguered U.K. customers. And I think you are English. The general tone being that You are so lucky to be offered a build slot. Take it or shut it. You were banned weren’t you, for a time during your defence of your iconic brand. If you are typical of dealers no wonder they are in trouble

[So]

unrepentant said:

Industry average is .93 reported faults per vehicle according to JD Power (2018 IQS rankings). LR is 1.6 reported faults per vehicle. Top brands are Genesis, Kia and Hyundai with around .7.

.

You mean brands with a fraction of the ticket price of a Land Rover, right?

It would be bad enough if pricing was on a par and Land Rover was significantly more unreliable. But Land Rover products are very expensive and more unreliable than far cheaper cars. They have more than twice as many faults.