New Defender in the Wild
Discussion
100SRV said:
I was looking at the Ninety and One-Ten on the configurator, the Ninety is tempting even at most basic of specifications.
The only query is that the rear seat is listed as being fixed - no use to me as this seriously limits versatility. Is this an incorrectly listed feature or is a folding rear bench part of a higher trim option? I would consider this a basic requirement of any vehicle of this type.
Trade-off is the number of improvements I could make to my Defender 110" for 1/4 the cost of a new one. No, it won't compete but better the devil you know until the early adopters have debugged the product.
The spec quotes "40:20:40 fixed rear seats" as opposed to "8-way heated semi-powered front seats." I suspect "fixed" in this context means not sliding, not removable, just folding.The only query is that the rear seat is listed as being fixed - no use to me as this seriously limits versatility. Is this an incorrectly listed feature or is a folding rear bench part of a higher trim option? I would consider this a basic requirement of any vehicle of this type.
Trade-off is the number of improvements I could make to my Defender 110" for 1/4 the cost of a new one. No, it won't compete but better the devil you know until the early adopters have debugged the product.
100SRV said:
The only query is that the rear seat is listed as being fixed - no use to me as this seriously limits versatility. Is this an incorrectly listed feature or is a folding rear bench part of a higher trim option? I would consider this a basic requirement of any vehicle of this type.
No no no.....you’re doing it all wrong.It isn’t meant to be practical and useful.
It’s meant to be cool and funky, something to make the neighbours jealous.
Regards buyers for the new defender. My parents had a series of 110 defenders starting with a 200tdi, 300tdi, early td5, late td5 XS (JE Engineering stage 2 tuned)(the best of the lot), 2.4 tdci and a 2.2 tdci 2014 XS again. The last tdci never really gelled (driveline issues, engine always felt gutless) and that was changed for a RR sport, so a departure from the model. They have now got a new 110 on order, modest spec £25,000 cheaper than the sport was which is good and they are excited about it.
Now they are not farmers or builders but have always had a defender/range rover for family wagon stuff as they are usefuly shaped, good at towing, decent off-road when needed and amazingly for LR they have all been pretty reliable. The new defender is ideal for them, links with the old ones which we loved growing up, less smart than the sport but still a 'smart rugged??' vehicle. Landrover have nailed the target market in my opinion.
Utility vehicles for a long time now have been almost exclusively pick up's because they are cheap, reliable and decent to drive for what they are. Now LR could have platform shared with say Ford, re bodied a Ranger and slapped a DEFENDER badge on it but that would have been a cheap effort and I expect very poorly received (see Mercedes X-Class).
I think its a shame the new defender is receiving such flack from some quarters, yes £40,000 start price is high but then a wildtrack ranger is £39,000/ Landcrusier utility is £40,000 with the VAT, I dont really see how they could have gone cheaper.
Anyway CV-19 might mean the whole car market implodes and we all drive what we have got for years so who knows!
Now they are not farmers or builders but have always had a defender/range rover for family wagon stuff as they are usefuly shaped, good at towing, decent off-road when needed and amazingly for LR they have all been pretty reliable. The new defender is ideal for them, links with the old ones which we loved growing up, less smart than the sport but still a 'smart rugged??' vehicle. Landrover have nailed the target market in my opinion.
Utility vehicles for a long time now have been almost exclusively pick up's because they are cheap, reliable and decent to drive for what they are. Now LR could have platform shared with say Ford, re bodied a Ranger and slapped a DEFENDER badge on it but that would have been a cheap effort and I expect very poorly received (see Mercedes X-Class).
I think its a shame the new defender is receiving such flack from some quarters, yes £40,000 start price is high but then a wildtrack ranger is £39,000/ Landcrusier utility is £40,000 with the VAT, I dont really see how they could have gone cheaper.
Anyway CV-19 might mean the whole car market implodes and we all drive what we have got for years so who knows!
100SRV said:
unrepentant said:
Correct. They will fold flat but can’t be removed.
That's what I found out after an online chat on the configurator website. I'll get saving...
I hadn’t bothered to take out the load space cover, but it’s basically stretchy fabric and is thus really easy to store away.
Edited by 595Heaven on Monday 13th April 08:12
Crossflow Kid said:
camel_landy said:
I think you'll find the new one is just as 'modifiable'.
Granted, you'll probably need a little more than a hammer & chisel but it'll still be modifiable.
M
I bet it isn’t. At least not without chucking serous money at it.Granted, you'll probably need a little more than a hammer & chisel but it'll still be modifiable.
M
Thing is, I've seen that argument pulled out and dusted off EVERY TIME Land Rover release a new car. Remember when the P38 came out?? All those electronics... All that technology... No DIY... Pah! Look at them now. Same is true for the Disco 3/4, RRS, L322, etc... (There's a cracking thread in Disco3 about retrofitting the eDiff)
Everything is DIY-able but as with any job, you need the correct tools in your toolkit and the correct skills. I carry an OBD reader on my iPhone, a laptop setup for doing the bigger stuff and as I was trained as an Electronics Engineer, I've got no issues with getting stuck in.
As I said: You might need something more than a hammer & chisel but everything is doable.
M
Edited by camel_landy on Friday 5th June 11:09
camel_landy said:
Crossflow Kid said:
camel_landy said:
I think you'll find the new one is just as 'modifiable'.
Granted, you'll probably need a little more than a hammer & chisel but it'll still be modifiable.
M
I bet it isn’t. At least not without chucking serous money at it.Granted, you'll probably need a little more than a hammer & chisel but it'll still be modifiable.
M
Thing is, I've seen that argument pulled out and dusted off EVERY TIME Land Rover release a new car. Remember when the P38 came out?? All those electronics... All that technology... No DIY... Pah! Look at them now. Same is true for the Disco 3/4, RRS, L322, etc... (There's a cracking thread in Disco3 about retrofitting the eDiff)
Everything is DIY-able but as with any job, you need the correct tools in your toolkit and the correct skills. I carry an ODB reader on my iPhone, a laptop setup for doing the bigger stuff and as I was trained as an Electronics Engineer, I've got no issues with getting stuck in.
As I said: You might need something more than a hammer & chisel but everything is doable.
M
The p38 is 'enhanced' off road because it was equipped with either 2 wheel or 4 wheel off road traction control. Which means it has the ability to avoid being cross axled and can make all 4 wheels spin. Td5 Defenders onwards can also do this however.
This also means something like a D2 or p38 are also easy and cheap to modify. Fitting coil springs to a p38 will not impact how the live axles perform off road. Do the same to a D3/4 and it will seriously hamper their off road ability.
So yes, I'm sure the new Pretender can and will be modified. But it will never be as easy, as available or as variable as it is on the older models. And arguably less effective, because you cannot really alter the basic underlying design, which simply is not designed for off roading in the same way as past models.
Crossflow Kid said:
What about those people who aren’t trained Electronics Engineers?
Remind me who moved the goalposts?
;-)
...and with that, we've probably hit the nail on the head.Remind me who moved the goalposts?
;-)
Change and peoples fear of change is often brought about through ignorance.
Jawaharlal Nehru said:
Ignorance is always afraid of change.
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