New Defender stops production
Discussion
warch said:
Clickety clickety clickbait
Exactly it’s normally a decent channel, title was pretty misleading. They don’t have much luck in there, the Model Y they’ve owned for a few weeks has a jammed rear door they can’t open that Tesla service have tried and failed 3 times to fix.To be fair to Land Rover it could be something real simple and hasn’t affected driving the car at all.
craigjm said:
Not the first time they have done that. They launched the original Jaguar XF in 2008 with a 2.7 diesel and then about 6 months later discontinued it for the 3.0. Anyone that buys a JLR vehicle as an early adopter always gets kicked in the face with things like this or just ending up finding all the faults
The 2.7 is a pretty solid lump compared with the 3.0 Yes the 3.0 is more powerful by 60bhp, but you don't have the known crank issues with the 2.7 I like the new Defender, but I still feel its too little too late for JLR and I feel its too expensive for what it is.
unsprung said:
Defender is also, to those in the US who know of it, overtly British (the RP-speaking kind, not the "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" kind). It's a vehicle that manages to fit in the boot the very ideas of the Rhodes Colossus and inventors, cup of tea at arm's length, tinkering in sheds.
You just mean Colossus, right? Colossus was a big mechanical computer, the Colossus of Rhodes was an enormous statue that stood astride a harbour entrance. They are separated by a few thousand miles and a few thousand years...Hard-Drive said:
unsprung said:
Defender is also, to those in the US who know of it, overtly British (the RP-speaking kind, not the "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" kind). It's a vehicle that manages to fit in the boot the very ideas of the Rhodes Colossus and inventors, cup of tea at arm's length, tinkering in sheds.
You just mean Colossus, right? Colossus was a big mechanical computer, the Colossus of Rhodes was an enormous statue that stood astride a harbour entrance. They are separated by a few thousand miles and a few thousand years...bakerstreet said:
The 2.7 is a pretty solid lump compared with the 3.0 Yes the 3.0 is more powerful by 60bhp, but you don't have the known crank issues with the 2.7
I like the new Defender, but I still feel its too little too late for JLR and I feel its too expensive for what it is.
When you consider it’s effectively the same chassis as a RRS / Disco / FFRR underneath as opposed to the Evoke / Disco underpinnings, it’s huge and on air suspension drives like the former, it’s arguably the bargain of the range....I like the new Defender, but I still feel its too little too late for JLR and I feel its too expensive for what it is.
Andeh1 said:
Two different segments with two different demographics. Like saying a focus is stealing 5 series sales..... One is cheaper, but they don't compete like that.
As per Unsprung, it is a Yes and No discussion.Edited by Andeh1 on Friday 16th October 20:56
But it isn't remotely like your comparison. You can clearly see the motoring media are pitching the new Defender and Bronco as alternatives.
300bhp/ton said:
Andeh1 said:
Two different segments with two different demographics. Like saying a focus is stealing 5 series sales..... One is cheaper, but they don't compete like that.
As per Unsprung, it is a Yes and No discussion.But it isn't remotely like your comparison. You can clearly see the motoring media are pitching the new Defender and Bronco as alternatives.
On the other hand, it's also fair to say that new Defender and Bronco are miles apart when it comes to price and when it comes to sense of occasion. At least in my opinion.
I didn't immediately know how to respond to the metaphor of Bronco as Ford Focus. Sounded slightly obtuse.
I can't imagine punters in the market for a fun 4x4, seeing the retro-modern design of Bronco, seeing its available vibrant and pastel colours, seeing its removable doors and roof, and thinking,
"Right, that'll be the safe choice for Joe Bloggs who's not too keen on spicy foods and sits home the weekend."
bakerstreet said:
The 2.7 is a pretty solid lump compared with the 3.0 Yes the 3.0 is more powerful by 60bhp, but you don't have the known crank issues with the 2.7
The 2.7 had a problem with spun crank bearings whilst the 3.0 broke cranks. I’ve had both cars and suffered neither problem. Weird what you read on the internet.warch said:
Blackpuddin said:
This American's Defender threw a check engine light after 160 miles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtdBunnvnq4
Clickety clickety clickbaithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtdBunnvnq4
Smiljan said:
To be fair to Land Rover it could be something real simple and hasn’t affected driving the car at all.
The very same father-and-son channel on YouTube are now attempting to receive their third Defender. "You Really Won't Believe What's Happening With Our Broken Defender"
https://youtu.be/mkpB8okB-xw
The first unit saw JLR corporate in both the US and UK get involved. UK staff even performed software work, remotely from the UK, while linked directly to the vehicle. They also flew out an engineer who worked day and night on the car, at the dealership.
Initially, the problem was a matter of ignition timing and a software update. The vehicle was returned to the owners and, again, the CEL illuminated. This time about the system of cameras. In the end, JLR determined that the engine was malfunctioning and could not be repaired. It would need to be replaced.
The YouTube hosts have nothing but good things to say about the professional and timely communication exhibited by JLR. They, the hosts, were offered: a new engine, a new vehicle, or their money back. The hosts asked for a replacement vehicle.
The second vehicle arrived and, as the customers had specified a winch, the correct one was procured and installed. Unfortunately, it was determined only after installation that the winch did not function. A second winch was expedited from Canada. Installation apparently severed a vital harness and the vehicle became fundamentally flawed and ineligible for sale.
A third Defender is now being sourced.
Given the labour involved, on both sides of the Atlantic, and given the two vehicles withdrawn, it's possible that this matter has cost JLR and its dealership partner something in the low six figures, sterling.
The video link just above was posted about 13 hours ago. It now has more than 100,000 views.
unsprung said:
warch said:
Blackpuddin said:
This American's Defender threw a check engine light after 160 miles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtdBunnvnq4
Clickety clickety clickbaithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtdBunnvnq4
Smiljan said:
To be fair to Land Rover it could be something real simple and hasn’t affected driving the car at all.
The very same father-and-son channel on YouTube are now attempting to receive their third Defender. "You Really Won't Believe What's Happening With Our Broken Defender"
https://youtu.be/mkpB8okB-xw
The first unit saw JLR corporate in both the US and UK get involved. UK staff even performed software work, remotely from the UK, while linked directly to the vehicle. They also flew out an engineer who worked day and night on the car, at the dealership.
Initially, the problem was merely about cameras. A module was placed on back order and the vehicle was returned to the owners. The CEL came on again, regarding a different problem. In the end, JLR determined that the engine was malfunctioning and could not be repaired. It would need to be replaced.
The YouTube hosts have nothing but good things to say about the professional and timely communication exhibited by JLR. They, the hosts, were offered: a new engine, a new vehicle, or their money back. The hosts asked for a replacement vehicle.
The second vehicle arrived and, as the customers had specified a winch, the correct one was procured and installed. Unfortunately, it was determined only after installation that the winch did not function. A second winch was expedited from Canada. Installation apparently severed a vital harness and the vehicle became fundamentally flawed and ineligible for sale.
A third Defender is now being sourced.
Given the labour involved, on both sides of the Atlantic, and given the two vehicles withdrawn, it's possible that this matter has cost JLR and its dealership partner something in the low six figures, sterling.
The video link just above was posted about 13 hours ago. It now has more than 100,000 views.
It's interesting watching TFL and their ongoing saga with the Defender. First an engine issue that can't be fixed and now a mechanic chops through a loom on their replacement car when fitting a winch.
I really like the channel and felt for the son when he crashed their Tesla within days of getting it. They also bought a lemon i3 REX that couldn't be refueled because it had a fault. Lets hope this run of bad luck comes to an end soon.
I really like the channel and felt for the son when he crashed their Tesla within days of getting it. They also bought a lemon i3 REX that couldn't be refueled because it had a fault. Lets hope this run of bad luck comes to an end soon.
Darkslider said:
I suspect they thought building a cheaper 4x4 with a playful or working image was now beneath them as a brand, a shame as everyone at LR seems to have forgotten that's the rock solid foundation the brand is built on.
You are wrong. JLR can't make a cheap basic car, as they are simply not big enough to achieve scales of economy sufficient to sell cheap & sell lots. They are 1/5th the size of the BMW, 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC). They have to stick with premium to achieve higher profit margins per unit. Nothing to do with it being "beneath them". As for not upset if it fails, you do realise there are probably 30,000 - 40,000 jobs in the Midlands reliant on them? One of our biggest British brands still fighting on the world stage. Owned by TATA, but fully autonomous with the money & experience staying in the UK!! Even Rolls Royce can't say that any more.
The Bronco is a direct competitor with LR's Defender, cheap, light, utility. Just like Toyotas becoming hr replacement light utility for Defenders in the Eastern market, due to Defenders atrocious reliability. Bronco is just the US market equivalent, in fact Toyota is a higher regarded light utility competitor than LR over there.
Also IMHO the Bronco is better..
LR sales plummeted by something like 10-20% a year when the Toyota equivalent was sold to the Eastern markets. This sales slump continued in Europe, when every single other brand was significantly more reliable, and it hasn't changed! The LR range is terrible for reliability, running costs' residual values.. Just take a look online at any used LR over 5 years old..
Furthermore!! The Land Rover was a direct competitor to the Toyota pickup types, these are equivalent to the US market Bronco types correct? Light utility vehicles. So rather than LR competing & crushing the competition, they have moved away from them, and failed badly.
Baring in mind I own a 1989 Defender 90..
Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Also IMHO the Bronco is better..
LR sales plummeted by something like 10-20% a year when the Toyota equivalent was sold to the Eastern markets. This sales slump continued in Europe, when every single other brand was significantly more reliable, and it hasn't changed! The LR range is terrible for reliability, running costs' residual values.. Just take a look online at any used LR over 5 years old..
Furthermore!! The Land Rover was a direct competitor to the Toyota pickup types, these are equivalent to the US market Bronco types correct? Light utility vehicles. So rather than LR competing & crushing the competition, they have moved away from them, and failed badly.
Baring in mind I own a 1989 Defender 90..
Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
Baring in mind I own a 1989 Defender 90..
Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Here we go again... Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Andeh1 said:
You are wrong. JLR can't make a cheap basic car, as they are simply not big enough to achieve scales of economy sufficient to sell cheap & sell lots. They are 1/5th the size of the BMW, 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC). They have to stick with premium to achieve higher profit margins per unit. Nothing to do with it being "beneath them".
Andeh1 said:
Darkslider said:
I suspect they thought building a cheaper 4x4 with a playful or working image was now beneath them as a brand, a shame as everyone at LR seems to have forgotten that's the rock solid foundation the brand is built on.
You are wrong. JLR can't make a cheap basic car, as they are simply not big enough to achieve scales of economy sufficient to sell cheap & sell lots. They are 1/5th the size of the BMW, 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC). They have to stick with premium to achieve higher profit margins per unit. Nothing to do with it being "beneath them". Andeh1 said:
As for not upset if it fails, you do realise there are probably 30,000 - 40,000 jobs in the Midlands reliant on them? One of our biggest British brands still fighting on the world stage. Owned by TATA, but fully autonomous with the money & experience staying in the UK!! Even Rolls Royce can't say that any more.
Don't mistake me, I've got no desire to see it fail and I actively want to see Land Rover do well for the reasons you've listed among others. I've owned 5 Land Rovers over the last ten years, so I'm either a glutton for punishment or a Landy enthusiast depending how you look at it, but it's my opinion the new Defender is so wide of the mark if it fails to sell in the expected numbers the most feeling I'll be able to summon will be resignation. Of course I'd be upset at the loss of jobs, but indifferent at the fate of the model itself. Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff