New Defender stops production
Discussion
swisstoni said:
I was talking about the US market.
I believe the US vehicle market is in a wait and see mode now that Biden is in charge.https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2...
bucks said:
Size comparison between the Defender and the Bronco
https://twitter.com/DougDeMuro/status/133059163066...
Interesting pictures. Love the colour of the Ford!!!https://twitter.com/DougDeMuro/status/133059163066...
However, that is a Bronco Sport. Not a Bronco
Andeh1 said:
Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
Baring in mind I own a 1989 Defender 90..
Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Here we go again... Where is the cheap, reliable, light utility Land Rover that the Defender used to be?
Rant over.
Andeh1 said:
You are wrong. JLR can't make a cheap basic car, as they are simply not big enough to achieve scales of economy sufficient to sell cheap & sell lots. They are 1/5th the size of the BMW, 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC). They have to stick with premium to achieve higher profit margins per unit. Nothing to do with it being "beneath them".
bucks said:
Size comparison between the Defender and the Bronco
https://twitter.com/DougDeMuro/status/133059163066...
prefer the defender tbhhttps://twitter.com/DougDeMuro/status/133059163066...
Andeh1 said:
As for not upset if it fails, you do realise there are probably 30,000 - 40,000 jobs in the Midlands reliant on them? One of our biggest British brands still fighting on the world stage. Owned by TATA, but fully autonomous with the money & experience staying in the UK!! Even Rolls Royce can't say that any more.
They're made in SlovakiaDynamic Space Wizard said:
Andeh1 said:
As for not upset if it fails, you do realise there are probably 30,000 - 40,000 jobs in the Midlands reliant on them? One of our biggest British brands still fighting on the world stage. Owned by TATA, but fully autonomous with the money & experience staying in the UK!! Even Rolls Royce can't say that any more.
They're made in SlovakiaBullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
"[LR] are 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC) [sic]"... Err VW didn't even exist when Land Rover were the 'best 4x4 by far' selling to every market around the the globe! And now LR are nothing more than a flashy badge with a poor reputation. They've gone down hill ever since about the early 70's, probably due to brummy management tbf! Source: I am a brummy.
Errr....VW.
Volkswagen.
Volks. Wagen.
Adolf Hitler.
Dr. Ing. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche.
Built a (not so) little factory in Fallersleben, Niedersachsen in 1938. VW38s (first few production "Beetles") are extremely sought after, probably very much like the first Land Rovers rolled out of Solihull in 1948.
mercedeslimos said:
Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
"[LR] are 1/15th the size of VW (IIRC) [sic]"... Err VW didn't even exist when Land Rover were the 'best 4x4 by far' selling to every market around the the globe! And now LR are nothing more than a flashy badge with a poor reputation. They've gone down hill ever since about the early 70's, probably due to brummy management tbf! Source: I am a brummy.
Errr....VW.
Volkswagen.
Volks. Wagen.
Adolf Hitler.
Dr. Ing. h.c. Ferdinand Porsche.
Built a (not so) little factory in Fallersleben, Niedersachsen in 1938. VW38s (first few production "Beetles") are extremely sought after, probably very much like the first Land Rovers rolled out of Solihull in 1948.
300bhp/ton said:
bennno said:
prefer the defender tbh
Bronco Sport is more akin to a Freelander 2 in design and market position. And likely less than half the price of the Defender 
t loads better! Have you seen the specifications? This is taken from Wiki:"The body-on-frame construction uses front twin A-arm independent suspension and a rear five-link coilover suspension and a solid axle. The front sway bar features a hydraulic disconnect to increase articulation when crawling, automatically reconnecting when brought back to speed. An option package, marketed as Sasquatch, includes 35-inch tires, the largest of any production vehicle.
Standard equipment includes Dana axles with front and rear electronic differentials, both user-lockable via dashboard switches. The drivetrain can toggle between 4WD Low, 4WD High, 4WD Automatic, and 2WD High (rear-wheel drive), controlled by a dial near the gear selector rather than a secondary shifter aside the main shift lever.[46]"
The Bronco reads more like a proper off-roading Land Rover specification than any current Land Rover imho!! We should be ashamed of ourselves...
unsprung said:
Has Bronco really killed sales of Defender?
The answer, I would say, is both yes and no. And mostly the latter. (happy to hear other arguments of course)
Certainly there's some cross-shopping among potential buyers of these two vehicles. But Defender is devoted to the premium segment and wears a commensurate price tag.
Conversely, the RRP for each of the six trim levels of Bronco is lower than the RRP for the base model of Defender 110. This applies to both two- and four-door Bronco.
You can spec a Bronco to a premium level, but premium is not the brand's raison d'etre. Rather, Bronco endeavours to be about fun:
. . . It has a removable top and doors, features not offered on Defender
. . . It allows for a high degree of personalisation via accessories and upgrades; hundreds of these are available, installed, at the dealership; the aftermarket will be larger still
. . . A large minority of buyers will use their Broncos expressly for social gatherings, beach weekends, and off-road activities with friends and acquaintances, many of whom will also own Broncos
. . . For a large minority of buyers, Bronco will be the second or third car (and less often the daily driver).
In most countries, there are a number of everyday brands that enjoy a sort of universal appeal -- an acceptance across a range of diverse households. Bronco, in its domestic market, has a bit of that in its DNA. Reminds me of Levi's jeans. (again: talking solely about the domestic market)
This is a notable contrast to the reputation of Defender which, in the US, is nothing if not upmarket. This isn't merely about style; it's about delivering on comfort almost regardless of terrain.
Funnily enough, we can say that the elements -- the outdoors and the weather -- can be part of the Bronco experience, if you wish. Defender, meanwhile, works to ensure that the elements remain at bay -- until you dismount, as it were.
Defender is also, to those in the US who know of it, overtly British (the RP-speaking kind, not the "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" kind). It's a vehicle that manages to fit in the boot the very ideas of the Rhodes Colossus and inventors, cup of tea at arm's length, tinkering in sheds.
And, as others in this thread have mentioned, there is also the reputation for reliability wrought by Land Rover.
Given all of the above, Bronco's closest competitor is Jeep Wrangler (five year sales average: 200,000+ units per annum).
Defender is present in the segment to some extent, but it stands rather apart. Or above, I should say. Furthermore, Defender participates simultaneously in another segment of the US market (a segment where Bronco and Wrangler are absent).
"Defender is devoted to the premium segment and wears a commensurate price tag."The answer, I would say, is both yes and no. And mostly the latter. (happy to hear other arguments of course)
Certainly there's some cross-shopping among potential buyers of these two vehicles. But Defender is devoted to the premium segment and wears a commensurate price tag.
Conversely, the RRP for each of the six trim levels of Bronco is lower than the RRP for the base model of Defender 110. This applies to both two- and four-door Bronco.
You can spec a Bronco to a premium level, but premium is not the brand's raison d'etre. Rather, Bronco endeavours to be about fun:
. . . It has a removable top and doors, features not offered on Defender
. . . It allows for a high degree of personalisation via accessories and upgrades; hundreds of these are available, installed, at the dealership; the aftermarket will be larger still
. . . A large minority of buyers will use their Broncos expressly for social gatherings, beach weekends, and off-road activities with friends and acquaintances, many of whom will also own Broncos
. . . For a large minority of buyers, Bronco will be the second or third car (and less often the daily driver).
In most countries, there are a number of everyday brands that enjoy a sort of universal appeal -- an acceptance across a range of diverse households. Bronco, in its domestic market, has a bit of that in its DNA. Reminds me of Levi's jeans. (again: talking solely about the domestic market)
This is a notable contrast to the reputation of Defender which, in the US, is nothing if not upmarket. This isn't merely about style; it's about delivering on comfort almost regardless of terrain.
Funnily enough, we can say that the elements -- the outdoors and the weather -- can be part of the Bronco experience, if you wish. Defender, meanwhile, works to ensure that the elements remain at bay -- until you dismount, as it were.
Defender is also, to those in the US who know of it, overtly British (the RP-speaking kind, not the "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" kind). It's a vehicle that manages to fit in the boot the very ideas of the Rhodes Colossus and inventors, cup of tea at arm's length, tinkering in sheds.
And, as others in this thread have mentioned, there is also the reputation for reliability wrought by Land Rover.
Given all of the above, Bronco's closest competitor is Jeep Wrangler (five year sales average: 200,000+ units per annum).
Defender is present in the segment to some extent, but it stands rather apart. Or above, I should say. Furthermore, Defender participates simultaneously in another segment of the US market (a segment where Bronco and Wrangler are absent).
Devoted? I would say aimed towards. Buyers aren't stupid..
camel_landy said:
Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
Err VW didn't even exist when Land Rover were the 'best 4x4 by far' selling to every market around the the globe!
Oh dear... History isn't your strong point.M
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