What is wrong with the Ingenium Engine?
Discussion
mwag said:
To add to Ingenium woes stories, our 2.0 diesel Discovery Sport has just chewed its engine at 64,000 miles only, always serviced to schedule by JLR franchise. JLR refusing to acknowledge any issue of their making and will not offer any “goodwill” contribution to £10K engine replacement cost as car over 6 years old - mileage apparently irrelevant. It all seems to be around a timing chain and related issue - ours ate the camshaft rocker arm. Interested to hear of others, but I think this is a real issue brewing.
Someone will come along to tell you to get it rebuilt at QP online Land Rover specialist.Shame about the lack of goodwill from LR though.
Are customer services not worth a try or lean hard on the dealer that serviced it if it’s full dealer history?
Not quite 3 and a half years with our FL2 SD4 Auto and still nothing has really gone wrong with it. Not sexy is it, but a good country workhorse.
And Prince Philip liked them.
Last year was a bit pricey as had the '10 year' service with timing belt and every possible fluid changed, plus front discs and pads, tyres, and the DPF had a cleaning process carried out as was deemed to be the source of some exhaust smell.
But all regular servicing/consumables that just happened to come in the same year, so it has been as reliable as you could possibly hope for in an 11+ year old JLR car. Fingers crossed this year is just an oil change and nothing else.
But looking ahead I don't know what to replace it with. The stories about the 2.0 Ingenium lump have really put me off the post 2015 Disco Sport.
Has anyone gone from FL2 to an early 2.2 Disco Sport? Is it worth the move - any better to drive? Any more refined in terms of NVH (despite having the same engine as the FL2)?
Ours is on about 85k miles, so the alternative is to just keep it longer as it is quite a chunk to upgrade to a 2015 car that typically won't have much less mileage on it.
Nothing else in the LR range really appeals, apart from maybe a new Defender 90, which I had a go in and was quite impressed. But too wide for Cornish roads (as opposed to the 110 being too wide AND too long for Cornish roads), too expensive, and can't carry anything really.
It is about as useless as a Jimny for dump runs. No interest in Audi Q whatevers, Volvo 4x4s, BMW Xs.
Can't Ford takeover JLR again? I wonder if they have anything else in the pipeline model wise.
And Prince Philip liked them.
Last year was a bit pricey as had the '10 year' service with timing belt and every possible fluid changed, plus front discs and pads, tyres, and the DPF had a cleaning process carried out as was deemed to be the source of some exhaust smell.
But all regular servicing/consumables that just happened to come in the same year, so it has been as reliable as you could possibly hope for in an 11+ year old JLR car. Fingers crossed this year is just an oil change and nothing else.
But looking ahead I don't know what to replace it with. The stories about the 2.0 Ingenium lump have really put me off the post 2015 Disco Sport.
Has anyone gone from FL2 to an early 2.2 Disco Sport? Is it worth the move - any better to drive? Any more refined in terms of NVH (despite having the same engine as the FL2)?
Ours is on about 85k miles, so the alternative is to just keep it longer as it is quite a chunk to upgrade to a 2015 car that typically won't have much less mileage on it.
Nothing else in the LR range really appeals, apart from maybe a new Defender 90, which I had a go in and was quite impressed. But too wide for Cornish roads (as opposed to the 110 being too wide AND too long for Cornish roads), too expensive, and can't carry anything really.
It is about as useless as a Jimny for dump runs. No interest in Audi Q whatevers, Volvo 4x4s, BMW Xs.
Can't Ford takeover JLR again? I wonder if they have anything else in the pipeline model wise.
As above, got a 2014 Sd4 Freelander 2. Cracking car, 1 split intercooler hose and 2 tailgate switches in the 4 years I've had it have been only problems. Do most maintenance on it myself including timing belt and waterpump recently (£100 in parts) so pretty cheap to run. Again not impressed by current LR offerings. Not sure what I'll go for next but plan on running the Freelander for a few years yet. 87k on mine.
Edit: 2 intercooler hoses! Blew one yesterday towing the caravan! All fixed now though.
Edit: 2 intercooler hoses! Blew one yesterday towing the caravan! All fixed now though.
Edited by Bobupndown on Wednesday 20th July 14:51
mwag said:
To add to Ingenium woes stories, our 2.0 diesel Discovery Sport has just chewed its engine at 64,000 miles only, always serviced to schedule by JLR franchise. JLR refusing to acknowledge any issue of their making and will not offer any “goodwill” contribution to £10K engine replacement cost as car over 6 years old - mileage apparently irrelevant. It all seems to be around a timing chain and related issue - ours ate the camshaft rocker arm. Interested to hear of others, but I think this is a real issue brewing.
What was the final outcome? Unfortunately this issue is quite widespread which I think is why JLR won’t want to do too much although there was a class action in the US that was settled.Mate has a 2.0 diesel ingenium in an XE. It’s a 2015 model. Took it for an MoT and failed on a cool spring. Decided to take it to the dealer to get that and an early service sorted and was sent a video of quite loud timing chain rattle at all revs and a healthy £2400 quote to fix it.
7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
We've got a 17 discovery Sport with the diesel ingenium engine. Had it 3 years and it's needed new electric tailgate struts and a new haldex pump. Both are common issues. Not the end of the world. I think the engine issues stem from the 2 year service intervals which is far too long when the oil can get
diluted with diesel. How many owners will get an early oil change if prompted by the message?? Not all I expect. Anyway as an engineer im changing the oil every 6 months. Costs me about the same as a tank of fuel and if it saves me a worn timing chain or catastrophic failure then it's cheap insurance.
diluted with diesel. How many owners will get an early oil change if prompted by the message?? Not all I expect. Anyway as an engineer im changing the oil every 6 months. Costs me about the same as a tank of fuel and if it saves me a worn timing chain or catastrophic failure then it's cheap insurance.
w824gb3 said:
We've got a 17 discovery Sport with the diesel ingenium engine. Had it 3 years and it's needed new electric tailgate struts and a new haldex pump. Both are common issues. Not the end of the world. I think the engine issues stem from the 2 year service intervals which is far too long when the oil can get
diluted with diesel. How many owners will get an early oil change if prompted by the message?? Not all I expect. Anyway as an engineer im changing the oil every 6 months. Costs me about the same as a tank of fuel and if it saves me a worn timing chain or catastrophic failure then it's cheap insurance.
Good safeguarding. Early DS not helped by the ‘oil change needed’ warning not displaying properly, or on very early Ingenium cars - not at all.diluted with diesel. How many owners will get an early oil change if prompted by the message?? Not all I expect. Anyway as an engineer im changing the oil every 6 months. Costs me about the same as a tank of fuel and if it saves me a worn timing chain or catastrophic failure then it's cheap insurance.
I'm not sure how they managed to design and sell such a crap engine. My Range Rover woes are fairly well documented across here, but I had the P400e hybrid with the 2.0 Ingenium petrol and the final straw was a misfire they couldn't trace. It had a really lumpy idle and would stutter when driving, this is on a car that was 1 year/8000 miles old at the time.
My dad's also had a leased XF P250 (same 2.0 petrol engine) for the past 3 years and it's the same, lumpy idle and seemingly untraceable misfire. Thankfully it goes back soon, as it really does have the feeling that one day it's going to go pop without warning as did my Range Rover (I managed to reject it at 18 months old for a whole list of issues).
My dad's also had a leased XF P250 (same 2.0 petrol engine) for the past 3 years and it's the same, lumpy idle and seemingly untraceable misfire. Thankfully it goes back soon, as it really does have the feeling that one day it's going to go pop without warning as did my Range Rover (I managed to reject it at 18 months old for a whole list of issues).
eltax91 said:
Mate has a 2.0 diesel ingenium in an XE. It’s a 2015 model. Took it for an MoT and failed on a cool spring. Decided to take it to the dealer to get that and an early service sorted and was sent a video of quite loud timing chain rattle at all revs and a healthy £2400 quote to fix it.
7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
How the hell can a timing chain and/or chain tensioner replacement cost 2 and a half grand?7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
eltax91 said:
Mate has a 2.0 diesel ingenium in an XE. It’s a 2015 model. Took it for an MoT and failed on a cool spring. Decided to take it to the dealer to get that and an early service sorted and was sent a video of quite loud timing chain rattle at all revs and a healthy £2400 quote to fix it.
7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
For balance, Mrs D.R. ran a 180bhp 2.0d XE R-Sport as a company car from new in 2017 until 2022. She gave it back in January with a 53,000 miles under its belt and it needed nothing during that time apart from the usual servicing consumables and a few tyres. And she drove it like she stole it - maybe that helps?!7 years old. 44,000 miles. Always been dealer serviced
We both thought it was an exceptional car and both preferred it to the BMW M-Sport 320d that preceded it.
Deranged Rover said:
She gave it back in January with a 53,000 miles under its belt and it needed nothing during that time
Damned by faint praise.Let's face it, everyone and their dog knows Land Rover have reliability issues, but the pull of perceived prestige is powerful. The green oval draws them in. Much better than those ghastly Qashqais and bland sensible Toyotas. The fact that everyone knows they are money pits only reinforces the image of how wealthy the owner must be if they can just casually shrug off five-figure repair bills. Near supercar running costs for a mass produced family 4x4. LR service department must be rolling in it.
There is a line in the the excellent TV series 'The Wire' (about Baltimore drug dealers for those who don't know) which says, "we must be the only business in the world where the worse our product is, the more we sell". Them and Land Rover.
LimaDelta said:
Damned by faint praise.
Let's face it, everyone and their dog knows Land Rover have reliability issues, but the pull of perceived prestige is powerful. The green oval draws them in. Much better than those ghastly Qashqais and bland sensible Toyotas. The fact that everyone knows they are money pits only reinforces the image of how wealthy the owner must be if they can just casually shrug off five-figure repair bills. Near supercar running costs for a mass produced family 4x4. LR service department must be rolling in it.
There is a line in the the excellent TV series 'The Wire' (about Baltimore drug dealers for those who don't know) which says, "we must be the only business in the world where the worse our product is, the more we sell". Them and Land Rover.
You don't need to tell me about Land Rover products. I currently own a Range Rover that I love to bits, but I can tell you about the £2k I spent on it last year, or the journey back from Ireland on the back of a breakdown truck only a few weeks ago. One repair was a new radiator (thanks to a stone on the motorway), one was a new coolant pipe after the rubber end of the old one perished at 16 years old and the breakdown in the Emerald Isle was due to nothing more exciting than the alternator deciding it had had enough after 17 years and 99,000 miles. Frankly, none of this seems to me to come under the "Ah well, what do you expect? It's a Land Rover" category. Let's face it, everyone and their dog knows Land Rover have reliability issues, but the pull of perceived prestige is powerful. The green oval draws them in. Much better than those ghastly Qashqais and bland sensible Toyotas. The fact that everyone knows they are money pits only reinforces the image of how wealthy the owner must be if they can just casually shrug off five-figure repair bills. Near supercar running costs for a mass produced family 4x4. LR service department must be rolling in it.
There is a line in the the excellent TV series 'The Wire' (about Baltimore drug dealers for those who don't know) which says, "we must be the only business in the world where the worse our product is, the more we sell". Them and Land Rover.
Now the gearbox and engine issues on my last L322 most definitely do come under that category, however as the former was made by ZF and the latter by BMW, it seems that Land Rover's biggest crime was to choose crappy German parts!
However, i hardly feel I was damning the XE with faint praise - I was stating that it had been completely reliable and a pleasure to run and drive over 4 years of ownership. Just a bit of balance from personal experience to the "all JLR products are unreliable crap" outlook that many like to spout regularly.
Deranged Rover said:
However, i hardly feel I was damning the XE with faint praise - I was stating that it had been completely reliable and a pleasure to run and drive over 4 years of ownership. Just a bit of balance from personal experience to the "all JLR products are unreliable crap" outlook that many like to spout regularly.
Of course, but the fact that you remarked on it making it through 53,000 whole miles without failure as if that was some kind of demonstration of the engineering prowess of JLR will have Toyota/Honda/Lexus/pretty much any other brand/ owners rolling in the isles. Surely that should be the least one would expect from a 'premium' (in terms of price) product?LimaDelta said:
Of course, but the fact that you remarked on it making it through 53,000 whole miles without failure as if that was some kind of demonstration of the engineering prowess of JLR will have Toyota/Honda/Lexus/pretty much any other brand/ owners rolling in the isles. Surely that should be the least one would expect from a 'premium' (in terms of price) product?
Of course. Japanese is best. We all know that because we've been told over and over and over and over again.Although I notice you left Nissan off your list. Wise move - you must know my friend who was presented with a service/repair bill of £3000 on his then 5 year old X-Trail. It prompted him to sell it and buy what he really wanted in the first place, which was a Discovery.
Ironically, he didn't buy one originally as he was put off by the potential for big repair bills, so went for the 'safe' Japanese option instead!!
Cold said:
Probably best not to mention the common Qashqai/Juke gearbox problems. Nor the gearbox, a/c and battery electrical issues suffered by the Toyota C-HR.
But Land Rover, ooh bad. Bloke in pub said so.
They aren't sold as a 'premium' product though are they? You expect cheap stuff to be crap.But Land Rover, ooh bad. Bloke in pub said so.
LimaDelta said:
Cold said:
Probably best not to mention the common Qashqai/Juke gearbox problems. Nor the gearbox, a/c and battery electrical issues suffered by the Toyota C-HR.
But Land Rover, ooh bad. Bloke in pub said so.
They aren't sold as a 'premium' product though are they? You expect cheap stuff to be crap.But Land Rover, ooh bad. Bloke in pub said so.
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