Discussion
Phil. said:
I’ve compared the P440e PHEV and the D350 MHEV, here are some of the significant (for me) differences and a few questions.
Firstly the P440e is around 300kg heavier and has 620Nm of torque versus 700NM for the D350. It’s not stated whether this torque figure is combined, electric only or petrol only.
The P400 MHEV has 400Nm of torque. Does P440e on petrol only have a similar torque figure?
The combined mpg for the P440e means nothing in reality (353 mpg). What is the mpg figure for a long journey? As a comparison the P400 combined mpg is around 20% less than the D350.
I’m sure on electric only the P440e has plenty of torque and reasonable mpg equivalent. But what are the figures when running on petrol?
https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Range-Rover-WLT...
I can't talk about the L460 but I have the p400e L405. That gets mid 20's on a long motorway run (heavy right foot, so in top decile of speeds on M'way). I average about 45mpg as I have a large number of short journey and a few long ones.Firstly the P440e is around 300kg heavier and has 620Nm of torque versus 700NM for the D350. It’s not stated whether this torque figure is combined, electric only or petrol only.
The P400 MHEV has 400Nm of torque. Does P440e on petrol only have a similar torque figure?
The combined mpg for the P440e means nothing in reality (353 mpg). What is the mpg figure for a long journey? As a comparison the P400 combined mpg is around 20% less than the D350.
I’m sure on electric only the P440e has plenty of torque and reasonable mpg equivalent. But what are the figures when running on petrol?
https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Range-Rover-WLT...
2ono said:
I think the reason people are choosing the hybrid over the diesel is purely dependant on the type of journeys they do, I've ordered a P440e because most of our journeys are short, 15 miles or less, so for us it will be mostly used on all electric , with the occasional long journey, greater than 200 miles.
Same for us. P350D would be best all rounder but P440e tax efficient and electric most of the time for our use.Phil. said:
I’ve compared the P440e PHEV and the D350 MHEV, here are some of the significant (for me) differences and a few questions.
Firstly the P440e is around 300kg heavier and has 620Nm of torque versus 700NM for the D350. It’s not stated whether this torque figure is combined, electric only or petrol only.
The P400 MHEV has 400Nm of torque. Does P440e on petrol only have a similar torque figure?
The combined mpg for the P440e means nothing in reality (353 mpg). What is the mpg figure for a long journey? As a comparison the P400 combined mpg is around 20% less than the D350.
I’m sure on electric only the P440e has plenty of torque and reasonable mpg equivalent. But what are the figures when running on petrol?
https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Range-Rover-WLT...
TLDR: Not the same car but my experience of my PHEV Cayenne is that it makes up for the extra weight with regenerative braking.Firstly the P440e is around 300kg heavier and has 620Nm of torque versus 700NM for the D350. It’s not stated whether this torque figure is combined, electric only or petrol only.
The P400 MHEV has 400Nm of torque. Does P440e on petrol only have a similar torque figure?
The combined mpg for the P440e means nothing in reality (353 mpg). What is the mpg figure for a long journey? As a comparison the P400 combined mpg is around 20% less than the D350.
I’m sure on electric only the P440e has plenty of torque and reasonable mpg equivalent. But what are the figures when running on petrol?
https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Range-Rover-WLT...
There are a few use cases where it chews through a disproportionate amount of fuel compared to a non hybrid Cayenne (e.g. cold start, depleted battery, short run), but practically like for like it does a bit better for a broad range of circumstances. I've had a couple of V6 petrol courtesy cars and I actually couldn't match the fuel consumption I get with my V8 hybrid on longer runs, battery depleted where it should be in the non-hybrid car's favour.
As another comparison, plugging my car in daily the lifetime average fuel consumption is slightly better than the previous generation Cayenne I had which was V8 diesel and considerably lighter. Really it's not a fair comparison as the V6 Hybrid is the closest alternative which will probably be another step better again. Obviously the electricity isn't free but it's probably comparable to the extra cost of diesel over petrol.
In terms of absolute figures, the electric range on the Cayenne is pretty poor so my fuel consumption tends to be either zero for short runs or high twenties with the 'free gallon' of electric for longer runs, typically 150-200 miles for me with 10% electric. With the extra EV range of the RRS I would expect it to shift that balance way further to the electric having a significant impact on the fuel consumption even on longer runs, reducing fuel consumption 20-30%. Even starting with a depleted battery on a long run I would be surprised if it dropped below mid 20's.
I tried a new PHEV RRS a few weeks ago, my impression was that the integration between the electric and IC were significantly more slick and advanced than my Cayenne, although perhaps slightly less responsive (but then it was 250bhp shy of my car), and that the extra electric performance and range were really noticeable and useful.
Edited by The Wookie on Tuesday 20th December 13:13
The Wookie said:
TLDR: Not the same car but my experience of my PHEV Cayenne is that it makes up for the extra weight with regenerative braking.
There are a few use cases where it chews through a disproportionate amount of fuel compared to a non hybrid Cayenne (e.g. cold start, depleted battery, short run), but practically like for like it does a bit better for a broad range of circumstances. I've had a couple of V6 petrol courtesy cars and I actually couldn't match the fuel consumption I get with my V8 hybrid on longer runs, battery depleted where it should be in the non-hybrid car's favour.
As another comparison, plugging my car in daily the lifetime average fuel consumption is slightly better than the previous generation Cayenne I had which was V8 diesel and considerably lighter. Really it's not a fair comparison as the V6 Hybrid is the closest alternative which will probably be another step better again. Obviously the electricity isn't free but it's probably comparable to the extra cost of diesel over petrol.
In terms of absolute figures, the electric range on the Cayenne is pretty poor so my fuel consumption tends to be either zero for short runs or high twenties with the 'free gallon' of electric for longer runs, typically 150-200 miles for me with 10% electric. With the extra EV range of the RRS I would expect it to shift that balance way further to the electric having a significant impact on the fuel consumption even on longer runs, reducing fuel consumption 20-30%. Even starting with a depleted battery on a long run I would be surprised if it dropped below mid 20's.
I tried a new PHEV RRS a few weeks ago, my impression was that the integration between the electric and IC were significantly more slick and advanced than my Cayenne, although perhaps slightly less responsive (but then it was 250bhp shy of my car), and that the extra electric performance and range were really noticeable and useful.
250bhp shy on your Cayenne?There are a few use cases where it chews through a disproportionate amount of fuel compared to a non hybrid Cayenne (e.g. cold start, depleted battery, short run), but practically like for like it does a bit better for a broad range of circumstances. I've had a couple of V6 petrol courtesy cars and I actually couldn't match the fuel consumption I get with my V8 hybrid on longer runs, battery depleted where it should be in the non-hybrid car's favour.
As another comparison, plugging my car in daily the lifetime average fuel consumption is slightly better than the previous generation Cayenne I had which was V8 diesel and considerably lighter. Really it's not a fair comparison as the V6 Hybrid is the closest alternative which will probably be another step better again. Obviously the electricity isn't free but it's probably comparable to the extra cost of diesel over petrol.
In terms of absolute figures, the electric range on the Cayenne is pretty poor so my fuel consumption tends to be either zero for short runs or high twenties with the 'free gallon' of electric for longer runs, typically 150-200 miles for me with 10% electric. With the extra EV range of the RRS I would expect it to shift that balance way further to the electric having a significant impact on the fuel consumption even on longer runs, reducing fuel consumption 20-30%. Even starting with a depleted battery on a long run I would be surprised if it dropped below mid 20's.
I tried a new PHEV RRS a few weeks ago, my impression was that the integration between the electric and IC were significantly more slick and advanced than my Cayenne, although perhaps slightly less responsive (but then it was 250bhp shy of my car), and that the extra electric performance and range were really noticeable and useful.
Edited by The Wookie on Tuesday 20th December 13:13
The 2 plug in RRS hybrids are 440bhp or 510bhp...how much power is in the Cayenne?
Thanks for all the detailed responses.
The conclusion I've come to is that the only reason to choose the PHEV over the MHEV is cost saving, largely if acquired through a company. Any saving running on electric is marginal compared to RR depreciation historically, and the cost of electric is only going on one direction.
The PHEV is a compromise between a MHEV and full electric. I'm yet to be convinced by the cost-benefit of owning any electric vehicle.
The D350 MHEV is reported to suit the new RR well with decent economy and acceleration when required. Having driven one I agree.
I think I'll stick with the D350 for my next RR order in the NY.
The conclusion I've come to is that the only reason to choose the PHEV over the MHEV is cost saving, largely if acquired through a company. Any saving running on electric is marginal compared to RR depreciation historically, and the cost of electric is only going on one direction.
The PHEV is a compromise between a MHEV and full electric. I'm yet to be convinced by the cost-benefit of owning any electric vehicle.
The D350 MHEV is reported to suit the new RR well with decent economy and acceleration when required. Having driven one I agree.
I think I'll stick with the D350 for my next RR order in the NY.
Phil. said:
Thanks for all the detailed responses.
The conclusion I've come to is that the only reason to choose the PHEV over the MHEV is cost saving, largely if acquired through a company. Any saving running on electric is marginal compared to RR depreciation historically, and the cost of electric is only going on one direction.
The PHEV is a compromise between a MHEV and full electric. I'm yet to be convinced by the cost-benefit of owning any electric vehicle.
The D350 MHEV is reported to suit the new RR well with decent economy and acceleration when required. Having driven one I agree.
I think I'll stick with the D350 for my next RR order in the NY.
I'm also going to be ordering a new one shortly and think I'll be going with the same choice as you - quite looking forward to it as I've been in RRS and XC90 up until now but I feel the step up is easily justified this time around The conclusion I've come to is that the only reason to choose the PHEV over the MHEV is cost saving, largely if acquired through a company. Any saving running on electric is marginal compared to RR depreciation historically, and the cost of electric is only going on one direction.
The PHEV is a compromise between a MHEV and full electric. I'm yet to be convinced by the cost-benefit of owning any electric vehicle.
The D350 MHEV is reported to suit the new RR well with decent economy and acceleration when required. Having driven one I agree.
I think I'll stick with the D350 for my next RR order in the NY.
2ono said:
I think the reason people are choosing the hybrid over the diesel is purely dependant on the type of journeys they do, I've ordered a P440e because most of our journeys are short, 15 miles or less, so for us it will be mostly used on all electric , with the occasional long journey, greater than 200 miles.
This is my thinking also, I have a Sep 22 Cayenne Hybrid its E range its about 20 Miles , takes about 2hrs to charge up from flat. It does the local daily stuff with about 2 Charge Ups. At current rates it saves about 20% over Petrol prices. Once the Batt is dead though thats it its very poor on Fuel 18/20 Driving around 22 on a run in you use Reg Gen mode, 26 without. I borrowed a RRS 440e last month for a weekend this did around 40 Miles on E power but same issue when the Batts are flat, you are just dragging around another 250/300kgs of dead weight. For my requirements on longer runs the 350d engine is fine, over 40 Mpg on a run with ease, and early to mid 30s running around.I’m in two minds at the moment, currently in a 2022 Defender 110 V8 which I have had for six months or so - love it. Just had a call from my local dealer asking if I want a new FFRR, unregistered D300 SE black on black at list price due to a cancelled order. Is it worth the change? Thoughts appreciated
APOLO1 said:
Had it a couple of weeks now, well worth the years wait. First Range Rover for 14 years, astonished at how well it drives. 350d engine just under 40 mpg on 300 miles round trip this week. 
That’s the colour and wheels I have in the configurator. Keep adding and dropping the black pack …Looks ace. Better when dirty !
darzifa said:
I’m in two minds at the moment, currently in a 2022 Defender 110 V8 which I have had for six months or so - love it. Just had a call from my local dealer asking if I want a new FFRR, unregistered D300 SE black on black at list price due to a cancelled order. Is it worth the change? Thoughts appreciated
I would assume that your dealer has offered you well above list for the Defender?If so, take the offer and put an order in for another Defender; means depreciation free motoring for a good few years.
Our order went in last year for a 440e HSE after driving the 350 HSE
Today we got to drive the 440e Autobiography for three hours with a good mix of driving
Very pleased with our choice, although I have changed our order to an autobiography spec
It was quiet (wind noise from the mirrors was certainly audible at speed), comfortable and relaxing to drive
Today we got to drive the 440e Autobiography for three hours with a good mix of driving
Very pleased with our choice, although I have changed our order to an autobiography spec
It was quiet (wind noise from the mirrors was certainly audible at speed), comfortable and relaxing to drive
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