Land Rover Defender which engine is best?
Discussion
Hard-Drive said:
I'm sticking with the 200Tdi (and therefore the whole vehicle) for life now as in a few years my Landy will turn 40 and go tax and MOT free, and I have a long term plan of an "expedition" style drive across Africa or similar when I retire, and having something as basic as the Tdi, with absolutely no electronics or ECUs to screw up somewhere remote, seems to make perfect sense to me.
IMO - In the context of an overlander, keeping it as standard as possible is one of the best things you can do. If it _does_ break in the middle of nowhere, getting hold of standard 'off-the-shelf' parts is far easier than something a specialist knocked up for you in a shed.M
Hard-Drive said:
To answer the original question, "which engine is best", it depends entirely what you want to do with your vehicle. People are getting into minutiae about vents etc, which although part of the package, is not the engine.
You mention only using it locally, in which case I'd be tempted by a V8. But, being frank, if it's just local use and I was in your shoes, I'd almost not care about the engine at all, and I'd just buy the best example of a Defender I can get within budget, and I would not care about which engine was under the bonnet. I'd much rather have a very tidy Tdi than a bubbling blistering Td5.
I'm currently rebuilding a 200Tdi and fitting an R380 short bellhousing gearbox with a tweaked 5th gear ratio to replace the early and weak LT77. For me, it should be perfect, giving sensible ratios around town but with a taller 5th to give me decent cruising speed that the Tdi should be able to push along quite happily. I'm sticking with the 200Tdi (and therefore the whole vehicle) for life now as in a few years my Landy will turn 40 and go tax and MOT free, and I have a long term plan of an "expedition" style drive across Africa or similar when I retire, and having something as basic as the Tdi, with absolutely no electronics or ECUs to screw up somewhere remote, seems to make perfect sense to me.
You might need to tweak the tdi to pull the taller 5th. Mate has largely the same setup in his td5 converted 90. You mention only using it locally, in which case I'd be tempted by a V8. But, being frank, if it's just local use and I was in your shoes, I'd almost not care about the engine at all, and I'd just buy the best example of a Defender I can get within budget, and I would not care about which engine was under the bonnet. I'd much rather have a very tidy Tdi than a bubbling blistering Td5.
I'm currently rebuilding a 200Tdi and fitting an R380 short bellhousing gearbox with a tweaked 5th gear ratio to replace the early and weak LT77. For me, it should be perfect, giving sensible ratios around town but with a taller 5th to give me decent cruising speed that the Tdi should be able to push along quite happily. I'm sticking with the 200Tdi (and therefore the whole vehicle) for life now as in a few years my Landy will turn 40 and go tax and MOT free, and I have a long term plan of an "expedition" style drive across Africa or similar when I retire, and having something as basic as the Tdi, with absolutely no electronics or ECUs to screw up somewhere remote, seems to make perfect sense to me.
When we go laning he ends up in 4th more than 5th as it won’t pull 5th and stay in convoy with the other vehicles. In isolation it works well. But I kind of get the impression he regrets doing it.
The R380 is fine. But not really any stronger than an Lt-77. They are largely the same transmission internally.
Hard-Drive said:
To answer the original question, "which engine is best", it depends entirely what you want to do with your vehicle. People are getting into minutiae about vents etc, which although part of the package, is not the engine.
You mention only using it locally, in which case I'd be tempted by a V8. But, being frank, if it's just local use and I was in your shoes, I'd almost not care about the engine at all, and I'd just buy the best example of a Defender I can get within budget, and I would not care about which engine was under the bonnet. I'd much rather have a very tidy Tdi than a bubbling blistering Td5.
I'm currently rebuilding a 200Tdi and fitting an R380 short bellhousing gearbox with a tweaked 5th gear ratio to replace the early and weak LT77. For me, it should be perfect, giving sensible ratios around town but with a taller 5th to give me decent cruising speed that the Tdi should be able to push along quite happily. I'm sticking with the 200Tdi (and therefore the whole vehicle) for life now as in a few years my Landy will turn 40 and go tax and MOT free, and I have a long term plan of an "expedition" style drive across Africa or similar when I retire, and having something as basic as the Tdi, with absolutely no electronics or ECUs to screw up somewhere remote, seems to make perfect sense to me.
Thank you for your reply. I would probably prefer to go the Tdi route (if i cant find a V8), for the same reasons you've mentioned, 20 years ago I bought a Defender 90 200 tdi, other than a Rebuilt gearbox, it was reliable, I would have kept it if it wasn't stolen twice, I recovered it 1st time it was stolen again months later and I never saw it again 😩.You mention only using it locally, in which case I'd be tempted by a V8. But, being frank, if it's just local use and I was in your shoes, I'd almost not care about the engine at all, and I'd just buy the best example of a Defender I can get within budget, and I would not care about which engine was under the bonnet. I'd much rather have a very tidy Tdi than a bubbling blistering Td5.
I'm currently rebuilding a 200Tdi and fitting an R380 short bellhousing gearbox with a tweaked 5th gear ratio to replace the early and weak LT77. For me, it should be perfect, giving sensible ratios around town but with a taller 5th to give me decent cruising speed that the Tdi should be able to push along quite happily. I'm sticking with the 200Tdi (and therefore the whole vehicle) for life now as in a few years my Landy will turn 40 and go tax and MOT free, and I have a long term plan of an "expedition" style drive across Africa or similar when I retire, and having something as basic as the Tdi, with absolutely no electronics or ECUs to screw up somewhere remote, seems to make perfect sense to me.
I like your idea of mating the 300 tdi gearbox, it was nicer to use than the original. Good luck with long term plan, hope you get there.🙂
99Chimaera said:
Good luck with long term plan, hope you get there.
Indeed... I learnt a number of things when overlanding but by far the biggest was: "Put the date in the diary". 
If the date isn't there, it never happens, something else in your life takes over and before you know it several years have passed you by.
M
99Chimaera said:
Thank you for your reply. I would probably prefer to go the Tdi route (if i cant find a V8)
Not many V8's, as least not "proper" Defenders. They did continue to offer the V8 after the introduction of the Defender (1990'ish), but very few sold in the UK. Most V8's will be pre the Defender name.The V8 is a nice engine. But do be aware that most of the factory ones are of low CR 3.5 twin carb setup with approx 137bhp (on a good day). They really don't go much better (if any) than a Tdi, but will be in the 12-17mpg range. Early models used the 5 speed LT-85 gearbox. These are quite strong, but make an LT-77/R380 feel like they have a slick shift gearstick as standard. Many early V8's also run taller transfer case gears, which blunts the performance. They go well compared to a 2.5NAD, 2.5p or 2.5 Diesel Turbo. But the Tdi really did level the playing field a lot.
That said, it is pretty easy to swap in a 3.9, 4.0 or 4.6 RV8 which will massively improve the performance. Although you can also fairly easily convert a 2.5 TD or a TDI to V8 power too.
99Chimaera said:
I like your idea of mating the 300 tdi gearbox, it was nicer to use than the original.
You can't actually replace the gearbox with a 300 one. The 300 used the R380 and the 200 the LT-77. They really are quite comparable gearboxes tbh. The shift quality is almost identical between them. From the drivers seat the only real difference is where Reverse is.What you can do on a 200 is replace the LT-77 with an R380 Stumpy box. These were designed as a dealer fit replacement for the LT-77 while the LT-77 and vehicles were under warranty, but after LT-77 production stopped. The R380 Stumpy is slightly different to a regular R380 and is considerably more money to buy or rebuild. I'd only look to doing this if you had an actual issue with the gearbox that was already in there.
300bhp/ton said:
You can't actually replace the gearbox with a 300 one. The 300 used the R380 and the 200 the LT-77. They really are quite comparable gearboxes tbh. The shift quality is almost identical between them. From the drivers seat the only real difference is where Reverse is.
What you can do on a 200 is replace the LT-77 with an R380 Stumpy box. These were designed as a dealer fit replacement for the LT-77 while the LT-77 and vehicles were under warranty, but after LT-77 production stopped. The R380 Stumpy is slightly different to a regular R380 and is considerably more money to buy or rebuild. I'd only look to doing this if you had an actual issue with the gearbox that was already in there.
Thanks for your reply, interesting point about the R380 stumpy gearbox, I thought you could swap to a R380 gearbox without too much modification. What is the difference between a "normal" R380 gearbox and a stumpy box? What you can do on a 200 is replace the LT-77 with an R380 Stumpy box. These were designed as a dealer fit replacement for the LT-77 while the LT-77 and vehicles were under warranty, but after LT-77 production stopped. The R380 Stumpy is slightly different to a regular R380 and is considerably more money to buy or rebuild. I'd only look to doing this if you had an actual issue with the gearbox that was already in there.
I think tdi would the be way to go, as they are pre dpf engines. I only drive 2 miles to work each way and would be used locally.
Many thanks for your help 🙂
99Chimaera said:
Thanks for your reply, interesting point about the R380 stumpy gearbox, I thought you could swap to a R380 gearbox without too much modification. What is the difference between a "normal" R380 gearbox and a stumpy box?
I think tdi would the be way to go, as they are pre dpf engines. I only drive 2 miles to work each way and would be used locally.
Many thanks for your help ??
Lots of good info here: https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product-categ...I think tdi would the be way to go, as they are pre dpf engines. I only drive 2 miles to work each way and would be used locally.
Many thanks for your help ??
The Tdi is a really good engine. 200 or 300 Tdi. I’ve owned both over the years. Lacking some refinement. But good in every other area really.
The 2.5 TD isn’t as bad as some make out either, but you will be limited to about 55mph as a sensible speed without trashing them. They are easy to convert to Tdi power too.
Really there isn’t a ‘bad’ engine though. Buy on condition more than anything.
300bhp/ton said:
You can't actually replace the gearbox with a 300 one. The 300 used the R380 and the 200 the LT-77. They really are quite comparable gearboxes tbh. The shift quality is almost identical between them. From the drivers seat the only real difference is where Reverse is.
What you can do on a 200 is replace the LT-77 with an R380 Stumpy box. These were designed as a dealer fit replacement for the LT-77 while the LT-77 and vehicles were under warranty, but after LT-77 production stopped. The R380 Stumpy is slightly different to a regular R380 and is considerably more money to buy or rebuild. I'd only look to doing this if you had an actual issue with the gearbox that was already in there.
The short bellhousing is the stumpy, and that's what I'm fitting. As my truck is a "lifer" I'm going down that route as I understand there to be some fairly significant differences between the R380 stumpy and the very early suffix LT77 I'm running. Obviously very little from a driving perspective, they are both 5 speed manuals with just a different reverse position, however the internals/bearings/lubrication of the stumpy are much improved over the LT77. I never want to have to get the gearbox out again ideally, so I'm doing it "properly". Might even finish it off with those retro Mud black and red gear knobs as my ally LT77 ones won't be right any more!What you can do on a 200 is replace the LT-77 with an R380 Stumpy box. These were designed as a dealer fit replacement for the LT-77 while the LT-77 and vehicles were under warranty, but after LT-77 production stopped. The R380 Stumpy is slightly different to a regular R380 and is considerably more money to buy or rebuild. I'd only look to doing this if you had an actual issue with the gearbox that was already in there.
Hard-Drive said:
The short bellhousing is the stumpy, and that's what I'm fitting. As my truck is a "lifer" I'm going down that route as I understand there to be some fairly significant differences between the R380 stumpy and the very early suffix LT77 I'm running. Obviously very little from a driving perspective, they are both 5 speed manuals with just a different reverse position, however the internals/bearings/lubrication of the stumpy are much improved over the LT77. I never want to have to get the gearbox out again ideally, so I'm doing it "properly". Might even finish it off with those retro Mud black and red gear knobs as my ally LT77 ones won't be right any more!
Lol. Sadly it’s a Land Rover. It probably won’t leave you stranded. But you will do bits to it. Just pulling the engine on my coiler 88 as the clutch pedal has lost half the travel. It had a new clutch 2-3 years ago. 
Register1 said:
Thanks for sharing, That Defender 130 is a beast. 😀
That’s a really nice looking Defender.
Regarding the heater, consider buying yourself the Muudstuff heater deflector.
Fitted one to my first tdci and was sufficiently impressed with it that I had one on the next one inside a week. They redirect the lower heater vents into the footwell giving a more even spread (instead of freezing/roasting your left leg). Dead easy to fit, and designed/colour matched such that if you’d not fitted it yourself you’d never suspect it hadn’t come with it from the factory.
https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/collections/interior-ac...
Regarding the heater, consider buying yourself the Muudstuff heater deflector.
Fitted one to my first tdci and was sufficiently impressed with it that I had one on the next one inside a week. They redirect the lower heater vents into the footwell giving a more even spread (instead of freezing/roasting your left leg). Dead easy to fit, and designed/colour matched such that if you’d not fitted it yourself you’d never suspect it hadn’t come with it from the factory.
https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/collections/interior-ac...
LooneyTunes said:
That’s a really nice looking Defender.
Regarding the heater, consider buying yourself the Muudstuff heater deflector.
Fitted one to my first tdci and was sufficiently impressed with it that I had one on the next one inside a week. They redirect the lower heater vents into the footwell giving a more even spread (instead of freezing/roasting your left leg). Dead easy to fit, and designed/colour matched such that if you’d not fitted it yourself you’d never suspect it hadn’t come with it from the factory.
https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/collections/interior-ac...
Thank you very much, It took a while to find, and it wasn't too far away. It is an unusual colour, metallic blue. Previous owner spent lots of money new wheels and tyres, larger intercooler etc. Thanks for the tip on the vent deflector much appreciated. I was impressed that the heater worked, my last two defenders had non existant heating, I got used to wearing coats and gloves!😆Regarding the heater, consider buying yourself the Muudstuff heater deflector.
Fitted one to my first tdci and was sufficiently impressed with it that I had one on the next one inside a week. They redirect the lower heater vents into the footwell giving a more even spread (instead of freezing/roasting your left leg). Dead easy to fit, and designed/colour matched such that if you’d not fitted it yourself you’d never suspect it hadn’t come with it from the factory.
https://www.mudstuff.co.uk/collections/interior-ac...
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff