Range Rovers becoming uninsurable in London?

[Phil.]

cayman-black said:

See my video the TGE boys seem to think not.

I saw that video on YT a couple of days ago and quite like watching those two clowns. I understand their motivation for additional security but pushing that particular supplier for their own gain was a bit obvious. I think they’d have been better off fitting the additional security and not producing a video telling everyone what it can do. Perhaps they’ve already disposed of the RR and are just making some cash out of owning it.

[Downward]

Cold said:

Louis Balfour said:

shopper150 said:

I think the techniques used by thieves are becoming more advances, with hardware becoming more easily accessible.
The vulnerabilities & penetration methods apply to other brands too, but I think the RR is the most desirable and hence seems to be getting most of the media attention.

I suspect it’s nothing to do with desirability and more to do with they are being stolen more.

Other way around. They are being stolen more because they are desirable. There is a thriving black market for the vehicles whether whole or in component form which doesn't appear to exist in such quantities for other cars.
The security is no worse than other manufacturers.

But for a premium brand you’d expect security to be better. Other aspects are.

[AndrewCrown]

cayman-black said:

Louis Balfour said:

Land Rover Insurance themselves won't insure them anymore, amusingly.

Really? Incredible. LV won't.

I use Classicline for my cars, they use a mix of insurers..
My FFRR L322 has always been insured with ERS group, now they are refusing to renew and refusing all RR's ...

Classicline found me Ageas who will.

Strange even for a 12 year old L322.

[Mark V GTD]

Louis Balfour said:

shopper150 said:

Can anyone name the insurers that aren’t covering Range Rovers?

Land Rover Insurance themselves won't insure them anymore, amusingly.

When I searched on Land Rover Insurance it came up with a page announcing that they are no longer issuing new policies from November 2022. So they are no longer insuring anything if that’s correct.

[cayman-black]

I see today six LR products in the top ten most stolen cars, arh...

[Wiggwam]

Downward said:

Cold said:

Louis Balfour said:

shopper150 said:

I think the techniques used by thieves are becoming more advances, with hardware becoming more easily accessible.
The vulnerabilities & penetration methods apply to other brands too, but I think the RR is the most desirable and hence seems to be getting most of the media attention.

I suspect it’s nothing to do with desirability and more to do with they are being stolen more.

Other way around. They are being stolen more because they are desirable. There is a thriving black market for the vehicles whether whole or in component form which doesn't appear to exist in such quantities for other cars.
The security is no worse than other manufacturers.

But for a premium brand you’d expect security to be better. Other aspects are.

My brother works for JLR and as above the key issue is the black market, apparently. When you buy a JLR product (well certainly the LR Cars) they carry out a lot of background checks on you to determine if you are either likely to flip it or you might be taking it out the UK to countries they either don't sell to or if they do in very limited numbers (they have more stingent export controls compared to say Porsche, BMW, Merc etc. given lower volumes and their various supply chain issues). Consquently their vehicles are targeted more by the black market.

Next point is their security, older cars were easier to steal, yes, but the newer cars are actually more difficult than competitors and the remote keys cannot be relayed... however, ALL their new cars have automatic folding mirrors when locked, so the gangs drive around London (or other main cities) looking for JLR veicles that the wing mirrors aren't folded... (therefore likely to be unlocked!) they then jump in, no alarm, no immobiliser, no tracker active, so they simply plug their computer into the port to start the engine and off they drive (how the Met police belive a large proportion of the new cars are stolen). This is why you get the alert on your Remote App if unlocked for 15 mins - however, a lot of their customers don't bother with this app... They are toying with autolocking when you walk away from the vehicle like Tesla - but this brings its own issues. The other method the gangs use, is they find an area or house with a number of JLRs in close proximity and break into the houses to get the keys.

[Louis Balfour]

Wiggwam said:

Downward said:

Cold said:

Louis Balfour said:

shopper150 said:

I think the techniques used by thieves are becoming more advances, with hardware becoming more easily accessible.
The vulnerabilities & penetration methods apply to other brands too, but I think the RR is the most desirable and hence seems to be getting most of the media attention.

I suspect it’s nothing to do with desirability and more to do with they are being stolen more.

Other way around. They are being stolen more because they are desirable. There is a thriving black market for the vehicles whether whole or in component form which doesn't appear to exist in such quantities for other cars.
The security is no worse than other manufacturers.

But for a premium brand you’d expect security to be better. Other aspects are.

My brother works for JLR and as above the key issue is the black market, apparently. When you buy a JLR product (well certainly the LR Cars) they carry out a lot of background checks on you to determine if you are either likely to flip it or you might be taking it out the UK to countries they either don't sell to or if they do in very limited numbers (they have more stingent export controls compared to say Porsche, BMW, Merc etc. given lower volumes and their various supply chain issues). Consquently their vehicles are targeted more by the black market.

Next point is their security, older cars were easier to steal, yes, but the newer cars are actually more difficult than competitors and the remote keys cannot be relayed... however, ALL their new cars have automatic folding mirrors when locked, so the gangs drive around London (or other main cities) looking for JLR veicles that the wing mirrors aren't folded... (therefore likely to be unlocked!) they then jump in, no alarm, no immobiliser, no tracker active, so they simply plug their computer into the port to start the engine and off they drive (how the Met police belive a large proportion of the new cars are stolen). This is why you get the alert on your Remote App if unlocked for 15 mins - however, a lot of their customers don't bother with this app... They are toying with autolocking when you walk away from the vehicle like Tesla - but this brings its own issues. The other method the gangs use, is they find an area or house with a number of JLRs in close proximity and break into the houses to get the keys.

Unfortunately, sooner or later, the weak spot in security will be the owner or their domestic security. Given the light penalties handed out for street robberies recently, I cannot see criminals being too concerned about domestic robberies for keys.

[Zoon]

Wiggwam said:

When you buy a JLR product (well certainly the LR Cars) they carry out a lot of background checks on you to determine if you are either likely to flip it

I can't imagine any background checks they could do that would prove this.
Unless you've got a limited company set up as a car trader?

[pmanson]

Who are people using for insurance? Just had a quote of £5k on a L460

[Phil.]

pmanson said:

Who are people using for insurance? Just had a quote of £5k on a L460

NFU

[LeighW]

LeighW said:

Scumbags.

This is a mate's car that was stolen the week before last. They cut a nice hole in the tailgate, opened up the loom to access one wire for the CAN Bus system, disabled everything (including the LR tracker) and unlocked the car. Then once inside, they plugged into the OBD port, programmed their own key and were away. After a short chase with the police, they abandoned it and scarpered. If he hadn't had an additional aftermarket tracker fitted (the tracker company dispatched their own team and followed it until the Police came on scene!) it would probably never have been found - he now realises why the insurance insisted on it. You'd think LR would have sorted this by now?

Bit of an update on this. Insurers are intending on writing this off. Wiring loom repairs, several ECUs to be replaced, replacement tailgate, repairs to front and rear bumpers which are lightly damaged, cost is coming in at £55k!! No wonder these are difficult/expensive to insure. He'd only had the car a few weeks.

[pmanson]

Phil. said:

NFU

Thanks!

I’ve been offered a 510e SV so was checking insurance via the usual comparison sites, both the 440e Autobiography (£133k) and the 510e (£166k) were coming in at circa £5k

Compare that to an X5 (£100k) at £1k and an XM (£166k) at £2k with all details the same is making me reconsider my options

[Harry Flashman]

I think I said this, but I could have an Audi SQ7 insured for a fraction of what a cooking 3 litre RRS or Discovery were quoted for.

So I did! I had already chosen the Audi for a few other reasons, but this clinched it.

[Louis Balfour]

pmanson said:

Phil. said:

NFU

Thanks!

I’ve been offered a 510e SV so was checking insurance via the usual comparison sites, both the 440e Autobiography (£133k) and the 510e (£166k) were coming in at circa £5k

Compare that to an X5 (£100k) at £1k and an XM (£166k) at £2k with all details the same is making me reconsider my options

Can you buggers either stop using NFU, or otherwise make sure your Range Rovers don't get nicked. We've used them for years and don't want that relationship buggered up. Thank you.

[Gweeds]

LeighW said:

Bit of an update on this. Insurers are intending on writing this off. Wiring loom repairs, several ECUs to be replaced, replacement tailgate, repairs to front and rear bumpers which are lightly damaged, cost is coming in at £55k!! No wonder these are difficult/expensive to insure. He'd only had the car a few weeks.

£55k! Jesus.

[SmithCorona]

NFU have lost the plot in the past year or two from my experiance.

We used them for all insurances until they quoted over 6k at renewal time: 2.5 on my L405, 2 on my XJ and over 1.5 for the house. Nothing had changed since the previous year where it was far less than half that.

I think they are obviously targeting mass market now and are less interested in personal service, rural properties and higher end cars.

My L405 is coming up in a month, annoyingly 2.2k looks to be the best so far, but then again I do have an open claim as (to be expected) someone did try to nick it from a car park this year...!

[Louis Balfour]

SmithCorona said:

NFU have lost the plot in the past year or two from my experiance.

We used them for all insurances until they quoted over 6k at renewal time: 2.5 on my L405, 2 on my XJ and over 1.5 for the house. Nothing had changed since the previous year where it was far less than half that.

I think they are obviously targeting mass market now and are less interested in personal service, rural properties and higher end cars.

My L405 is coming up in a month, annoyingly 2.2k looks to be the best so far, but then again I do have an open claim as (to be expected) someone did try to nick it from a car park this year...!

My local office is still not too bad. Becoming pricy though.

[cayman-black]

I insured at a reasonable premium with NFU my SVR but that was in 2018 since then I have not had a good quote from them.

Audi SQ7 nice car but its not an RR by a long way IMO of course

[pmanson]

I think we're going to sack it off, had a look at an X5 hybrid today and looking at the Cayenne hybrid tomorrow

[Sixpackpert]

pmanson said:

I think we're going to sack it off, had a look at an X5 hybrid today and looking at the Cayenne hybrid tomorrow

The X5 45e is a great car...slightly biased though.