Starting Again
Discussion
A quick update in one game changing thing -
We have moved 4 times, from a windowless self store, to a boutique small office, to a bland bigger one and ONLY NOW can I see how your work environment can really help you grow.
We are now in a very trendy complex right on the river in Liverpool, on one side is another agency going much longer than us and on the other side the studios of The Anfield Wrap. The place is buzzing with networking and events and the boardroom is the stuff of dreams, of 8 prospective clients we have had in 7 have signed up and that last one isnt dead yet!! We would never have had the client enthusiasm in our last office. Also going out for lunch with a client is so varied and can be a clincher, current favourite is Matou on top of the ferry building, no more getting a sarnie in.
We have a 6 man officer and 4 hot desks just outside and it works well, there are several small meeting rooms you dont have to book and we can use as random offices.
If anyone is interested in the trials and tribulations of trying to earn more than £680 I will add to the story but I dont want to prattle on.
We have moved 4 times, from a windowless self store, to a boutique small office, to a bland bigger one and ONLY NOW can I see how your work environment can really help you grow.
We are now in a very trendy complex right on the river in Liverpool, on one side is another agency going much longer than us and on the other side the studios of The Anfield Wrap. The place is buzzing with networking and events and the boardroom is the stuff of dreams, of 8 prospective clients we have had in 7 have signed up and that last one isnt dead yet!! We would never have had the client enthusiasm in our last office. Also going out for lunch with a client is so varied and can be a clincher, current favourite is Matou on top of the ferry building, no more getting a sarnie in.
We have a 6 man officer and 4 hot desks just outside and it works well, there are several small meeting rooms you dont have to book and we can use as random offices.
If anyone is interested in the trials and tribulations of trying to earn more than £680 I will add to the story but I dont want to prattle on.
TheBogFlogger said:
Any new updates? its an enjoyable read.
Actually loads but I thought maybe it was boring.We’ve made so many mistakes it’s criminal but In summary, PAYE and nest killed my cash flow, we’ve fallen out with a few people, over serviced a few people and gone down too many dead ends.
We still don’t have a decent website, have never done any marketing (ok about 3 days worth) and our hiring process would make you cry.
We’re in our 4th office in under 2 years and since we moved it’s supercharged our business. Biggest thing to pass on - spend more on a workplace that inspires and impresses - if anyone wants a look google Avenue HQ Liverpool we have an office and a 4 person open office plus hot desks.
Our onboarding of projects wasn’t good enough, as such finishing a project with a loose spec takes forever - we have learnt hard from this and used a consultant to write the process and Asana / Harvest to monitor throughput.
So where are we? By a combination of luck, skill, blag and age (I know lots of people cos I’m ancient) we’re up to 13 senior staff, 3 freelancers and a part time genius.
We have 14 retained marketing companies and dev enquiries daily.
We’ve lost a few by not being in London, but we don’t pretend to be (yet) and most clients are in manchester. We specialise in clothing purely by client word of mouth they all share info in that sector it seems.
We were approached to do lead generation and that starts next month, we have recruited just for this role, again it was an old mate asking.
Our own ecommerce is ready to go but we are too busy, we’ve spent £££ on the app as well.
So you all want to know am I earning??? Nope only £700 but my initial investment is nearly repaid and we don’t owe any money to anyone else (just a bit of PAYE) - baffles me how so many agencies owe ££££ our two main competitors in Shopify are 1 skint and 1 in debt so hopefully we can buy them in near future.
If anyone wants to hear anything specifically about the dumb and dumber approach to starting a business ask away!
Cheers guys
Well when I was employed I didn’t enjoy it but also didn’t have that much pressure, when I had my own retail business I didn’t realise at the start it’s a treadmill and you can’t just get off once it’s running. I had 5 / 6 great years with DST problem was I ran it for 10 !!!
Imagine not being able to sell something you no longer want to do - horrendous and I was lucky.
This agency business has one main cost it’s staff, as such I don’t feel anything like the pressure, no suppliers only rent and a myriad of software bills.
So YES I’m enjoying it, we have a huge milestone
In August where we get an accreditation if it goes through we can charge more and I can get a nice wage.
Imagine not being able to sell something you no longer want to do - horrendous and I was lucky.
This agency business has one main cost it’s staff, as such I don’t feel anything like the pressure, no suppliers only rent and a myriad of software bills.
So YES I’m enjoying it, we have a huge milestone
In August where we get an accreditation if it goes through we can charge more and I can get a nice wage.
Well the entire business was a treadmill, owing suppliers and HMRC and staff means cash has to keep coming in, if a competitor or amazon target your main sales lines you have to think fast! Waking up one day and finding that great supplier you deal with and always pay etc has sold a load of kit to a generic online trader who has trashed it all over the net whilst you have £££ of it in stock and obviously going nowhere. Trusting suppliers not to do silly deals was always an issue.
Our rent is approaching £3k, thats for a 6 man office and 2 hot desks and 4 permanent desks in the open. If I commit for 3 years we can have the space in the picture for £3k for 9 months then £4k. Its a mad amount to rent but as I said before being where we are is getting us business.
|https://thumbsnap.com/uXUmRUiJ[/url]
In other news the lead generation side is a month old and we are starting to find a formula that means each lead attained doesnt cost us more than the client will pay (win) and as its ecommerce silly season we are getting some quality leads.
More things I have learnt - ecommerce management and site dev is not like banging up a wordpress site in that the client can s
t themselves daily depending on revenue, with say a hotel site the hassle process is far slower / less reactive. Also with ecommerce if we re platform from magento say then the data transfer will fk us up every time (Magento / woo etc have fields we cannot always replicate in Shopify) one client has 180k master skus (not variants) and whilst cart2cart said ok the reality was a total utter mess we are still working on and its depressing as the main site is 90% finished awaiting the data.
Our retainers are at an all time high and whilst you cant keep everyone happy all the time employing a head of communications to call everyone weekly and meet monthly was a good move.
Some clients appreciate us
|https://thumbsnap.com/GisLRjCH[/url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/uXUmRUiJ[/url]In other news the lead generation side is a month old and we are starting to find a formula that means each lead attained doesnt cost us more than the client will pay (win) and as its ecommerce silly season we are getting some quality leads.
More things I have learnt - ecommerce management and site dev is not like banging up a wordpress site in that the client can s
t themselves daily depending on revenue, with say a hotel site the hassle process is far slower / less reactive. Also with ecommerce if we re platform from magento say then the data transfer will fk us up every time (Magento / woo etc have fields we cannot always replicate in Shopify) one client has 180k master skus (not variants) and whilst cart2cart said ok the reality was a total utter mess we are still working on and its depressing as the main site is 90% finished awaiting the data.Our retainers are at an all time high and whilst you cant keep everyone happy all the time employing a head of communications to call everyone weekly and meet monthly was a good move.
Some clients appreciate us
|https://thumbsnap.com/GisLRjCH[/url]So we got Shopify Plus last week, 3 month onboarding process starts now.
What this means is to the 10 agencies with it in the UK we are number 11, nearest others are Birmingham and Wakefield meaning we are best positioned for Manchester. Our work will be assessed regularly both design and code with a minimum of 6 sites of enterprise level (£2k month client subscription) required a year - however as I said they feed us the leads.
To Velstar it means the referrals from Shopify will be enterprise level builds and we should get a couple a month mainly replatforms.
We finally finished our website and did some very soft marketing which resulted in quite a few small enquiries, that’s ok but we need to refine and set a capture list of etailers to go after in 2019.
In other news our office is proving expensive as we grow, we have a few external workers but right now a regular 12 internal, this currently costs about £200 a desk with only insurance as an extra cost - the new space to cover up to 16 people is us getting the office next door but paying for the space before the people - £3200
We’re looking locally at other space but it would be a shame to move.
I’ve learnt that:
Paying £3k gets you a poor accountant
Paye is bloody hard to pay once your behind
In ecommerce your judged on performance daily. (Why are we so busy / quiet etc)
I’m too old for this at 55
Deliveroo and Uber eats will kill me.
My 13 year old windows pc will have to go.
Fast fashion is truly hard work hats off to the guys doing it - we have one (independent one man company) on £2m a month who puts his entire life into getting orders out the door - amazing.
Wonder what 2019 brings...
Oh still earning nothing but all debt paid off to myself and we’re in good shape, the business value will increase also with the Shopify plus accreditation.
What this means is to the 10 agencies with it in the UK we are number 11, nearest others are Birmingham and Wakefield meaning we are best positioned for Manchester. Our work will be assessed regularly both design and code with a minimum of 6 sites of enterprise level (£2k month client subscription) required a year - however as I said they feed us the leads.
To Velstar it means the referrals from Shopify will be enterprise level builds and we should get a couple a month mainly replatforms.
We finally finished our website and did some very soft marketing which resulted in quite a few small enquiries, that’s ok but we need to refine and set a capture list of etailers to go after in 2019.
In other news our office is proving expensive as we grow, we have a few external workers but right now a regular 12 internal, this currently costs about £200 a desk with only insurance as an extra cost - the new space to cover up to 16 people is us getting the office next door but paying for the space before the people - £3200
We’re looking locally at other space but it would be a shame to move.
I’ve learnt that:
Paying £3k gets you a poor accountant
Paye is bloody hard to pay once your behind
In ecommerce your judged on performance daily. (Why are we so busy / quiet etc)
I’m too old for this at 55
Deliveroo and Uber eats will kill me.
My 13 year old windows pc will have to go.
Fast fashion is truly hard work hats off to the guys doing it - we have one (independent one man company) on £2m a month who puts his entire life into getting orders out the door - amazing.
Wonder what 2019 brings...
Oh still earning nothing but all debt paid off to myself and we’re in good shape, the business value will increase also with the Shopify plus accreditation.
Hoofy said:
I thought I was bad with a PC that's probably about 8 years old. If you're running such a successful small business why are you wasting your time trying to use a half dead PC?
All in do is send invoices and check sites / but of amazon set up etc it’s fine / not slow at all.I will have to get another (bloody) MacBook I guess but need one with a 20” screen 🤣
SpeedBash said:
DSLiverpool said:
I’ve learnt that:
Fast fashion is truly hard work hats off to the guys doing it - we have one (independent one man company) on £2m a month who puts his entire life into getting orders out the door - amazing.
Would love to hear more about this.Fast fashion is truly hard work hats off to the guys doing it - we have one (independent one man company) on £2m a month who puts his entire life into getting orders out the door - amazing.
One company (not a client) who I admire the social strategy of is Motelrocks check their insta. They booked Alton towers for a blogger event recently and had a huge Ibiza villa this summer for bloggers and influencers.
One guy just had a huge blogger party in a nightclub (this week) getting the girls to post on insta and wearing the clothing on clickable insta, shrewd move as combined with killer offers got over 3000 orders yesterday. This is not a shiny office place with a full set of management it’s 2 guys, a laser guided pick n pack system and meticulous social marketing spread across countries and companies (we do the dev and ppc and they challenge everything making sure they get value and results).
Fast fashion is so fast that it needs to be made in the UK (trending stuff, basics and classics are ok from Bangladesh etc) and it’s mainly Leicester where I get the impression you go with a van very early in the morning and fight over the lines - I’ve not exierienced this it’s anecdotal.
This ecommerce is a million times different to my own experience of selling electronics, virtually an entirely different medium.
We seem to have a niche in clothing marketing but we didn’t aim to do so, it’s high pressure and we’re actively looking to dilute clothing with “other stuff” from flooring, bathrooms to vibrating weight loss machines !
Really enjoying seeing this side of ecommerce however I am glad I don’t get too involved as at 55 I struggle to keep up.
So points of interest from this week -
- Fast fashion is hard hard work and the profit can be lost in returns and marketing. Get it right make £££
- How many eyelashes can girls need, great item to sell but so so many orders.
- Pyjamas and onesies are popular.
- Fortune favours the brave, sellers who don’t significantly increase online marketing presence at this time get lost in the crowd.
VEX said:
Great updates Dave.
I really do hope to be a small part of your plans for 2019.
Interested in PPC and Amazon as well, based on the experience of the others selling high value low volume stuff.
V.
I’ve met a guy who is a total Amazon guru, I’m going to try him out with a few test items if good I’ll recommend him. I really do hope to be a small part of your plans for 2019.
Interested in PPC and Amazon as well, based on the experience of the others selling high value low volume stuff.
V.
48k said:
Dave I have worked with - and have a lot of contacts at - Metapack (shipping integrators used by the likes of Asos, eBay, John Lewis etc) and Clicksit (who specialise in returns - set up by a former Metapack employee) I could put you in touch with them if you need to look at optimising / streamlining your delivery and returns channels.
That might be handy ta, we’re always being asked to recommend a returns solution. I’ll throw it out here our single biggest issue is data migration mainly from Magento. We’ve severely screwed up by including it on some builds (never again will we inc site to site) but CSV to site is ok but still needs extra work.
We actively embrace this as a strategy for fashion clients.
People hate waiting for refunds however and one of the fastest growing companies enables pay later / 4 payments easily on checkout.
Putting Klarna on client websites enables smaller etailers to really offer the customer financial flexibility - and yes they can buy 3 sizes and return 2 before they need to pay anything.
Returns are a fact of fashion life, embracing it will get more sales (and returns) lol
People hate waiting for refunds however and one of the fastest growing companies enables pay later / 4 payments easily on checkout.
Putting Klarna on client websites enables smaller etailers to really offer the customer financial flexibility - and yes they can buy 3 sizes and return 2 before they need to pay anything.
Returns are a fact of fashion life, embracing it will get more sales (and returns) lol
Klarna (and afterpay etc) are growing at amazing speed, the model works and as I said the etailer that embraces the return culture will be busier. They simply need to factor in costs to reflect client behaviour.
I did email you privately - I can show graphically sales picking up when offering payment delay (and they moved to Shopify, I can’t split that out). In clothing we have seen some quite amazing results however we don’t get involved in the net net net so I can only comment on sales.
I did email you privately - I can show graphically sales picking up when offering payment delay (and they moved to Shopify, I can’t split that out). In clothing we have seen some quite amazing results however we don’t get involved in the net net net so I can only comment on sales.
Just replied, (Dan or myself handle all incoming leads).
Most of our clients are in Manchester, in fact, I am going up there this afternoon for a 3-month review with a client. We are shortly to be "Plus" (can't recall if already mentioned) whats delayed it is we didn't do the "meet-ups" and the "community" stuff as were too busy doing our own stuff but they finally agreed and the standards a Plus agency have to adhere to are reassuringly strict - quite a challenge.
No plus agencies anywhere near Manchester we will be the nearest and we are opening a manned office there probably in Feb.
Most of our clients are in Manchester, in fact, I am going up there this afternoon for a 3-month review with a client. We are shortly to be "Plus" (can't recall if already mentioned) whats delayed it is we didn't do the "meet-ups" and the "community" stuff as were too busy doing our own stuff but they finally agreed and the standards a Plus agency have to adhere to are reassuringly strict - quite a challenge.
No plus agencies anywhere near Manchester we will be the nearest and we are opening a manned office there probably in Feb.
Quick update:
Well we got Shopify Plus meaning we got through the three month appraisal and are fully onboard, what does this mean well in theory we are one of only 11 top rated Shopify partners in the UK and they will send the cream inquiries to us as they see fit. These will be enterprise level (in theory) Shopify Plus site builds and as the monthly "rent" is $2k paid to Shopify then they are pretty well established etailers probably on the second or third site.
Remember that windowless office at the start at £250 a month?, then the one with 1 window at £700 well we now have loads of windows and I could have a new Bentley for the cost (no rates/insurance or anything else though) we have 16 desks.
As a money maker it looks like only an exit strategy sometime in the future will crystalise the effort but I live in hope that getting "Plus" and the higher cost of the more complex builds will filter through to our pockets.
On the way the Jewelry idea failed, the ecommerce is technically alive but needs some TLC, the mens clothing brand partnership will probably not happen sadly as it has potential but we need the £ in Velstar right now.
Thats it really, chapter 2 (22) starts now ...........
Well we got Shopify Plus meaning we got through the three month appraisal and are fully onboard, what does this mean well in theory we are one of only 11 top rated Shopify partners in the UK and they will send the cream inquiries to us as they see fit. These will be enterprise level (in theory) Shopify Plus site builds and as the monthly "rent" is $2k paid to Shopify then they are pretty well established etailers probably on the second or third site.
Remember that windowless office at the start at £250 a month?, then the one with 1 window at £700 well we now have loads of windows and I could have a new Bentley for the cost (no rates/insurance or anything else though) we have 16 desks.
As a money maker it looks like only an exit strategy sometime in the future will crystalise the effort but I live in hope that getting "Plus" and the higher cost of the more complex builds will filter through to our pockets.
On the way the Jewelry idea failed, the ecommerce is technically alive but needs some TLC, the mens clothing brand partnership will probably not happen sadly as it has potential but we need the £ in Velstar right now.
Thats it really, chapter 2 (22) starts now ...........
Edited by DSLiverpool on Saturday 16th March 18:21
illmonkey said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Canute said:
jammy-git said:
Why?
The ridiculous overheads that end up being passed onto the client, or reduced performance per £ compared to leaner operations.
. and its nothing to do with us Miss Pap are in admin either (we did the USA site).Canute you seem to have an axe to grind on Shopify and agencies, I think you should declare your hand and be more open if your going to be so unshifting in your ways - tell us why.
As you know agencies work on ROI and ROAS so the overheads are factored into the deliverable strategy.
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