Staff lateness - and blaming traffic.
Discussion
MKnight702 said:
Sheetmaself said:
I used to have a chap who caught the bus in a time dependant job, he could either be here 30mins early or 30 mins late, it took a lot of time trying convince him that he should be getting here early not late. Upon him opening the discussion as to whether his 30mins extra a day would be overtime at single time or double he was advised that he may not be best suited working for me.
These people walk amongst us and can make decisions which affect my life!!
Was this chap in an hourly paid role, if so I can see his point?These people walk amongst us and can make decisions which affect my life!!
Even if he was salaried, you have instructed him to effectively change his working hours and add 2.5 hours per week, I presume you also said he could leave 30 minutes earlier to make up for it? You gave him a contract when he started that outlined his start time, subsequently telling him to start half an hour earlier for no extra benefit seems harsh.
He told the person that worked for him to be there on time to start his shift. Regardless of how he got to work each day, he was expected to be there on time... if that meant he would be there early, well, boo-hoo
Being paid hourly or salaried makes no difference in this example
MKnight702 said:
Was this chap in an hourly paid role, if so I can see his point?
Even if he was salaried, you have instructed him to effectively change his working hours and add 2.5 hours per week, I presume you also said he could leave 30 minutes earlier to make up for it? You gave him a contract when he started that outlined his start time, subsequently telling him to start half an hour earlier for no extra benefit seems harsh.
Nope i never expected him to start early or asked him to, i only asked him to be here on time. The bus he used was an hourly bus which would drop him off either 30 minutes before his start time or 30 minutes after his start time. When he or anyone else was late the person they were taking over from would have to stay late costing me overtime (quite rightly) or cause me to run short. Even if he was salaried, you have instructed him to effectively change his working hours and add 2.5 hours per week, I presume you also said he could leave 30 minutes earlier to make up for it? You gave him a contract when he started that outlined his start time, subsequently telling him to start half an hour earlier for no extra benefit seems harsh.
And no it is a salaried role.
This thread is a perfect example of people not having read it before posting!! 
As the employee is in a time-sensitive job, of course he has to be there on time, and if that means leaving home a bit earlier just in case, then that's life.
Having said that, with the best will in the world, sometimes things happen which just can't be predicted. For example, if there is an accident on one of the three main routes from Epsom towards the M25/A3 in the morning, all three of them will back up and add half an hour or more to any journey within 20 minutes or so. That's not just weight of traffic, but something exceptional that might happen once every few months, and it hardly seems fair to harshly penalise someone for not taking that into account on a daily basis.
If it were me, I'd probably keep a record of arrival times for employees and give them a black mark for turning up late which expire after a couple of months. If they accrue more than 3 live black marks at any one time, then they're out on their arse.
As the employee is in a time-sensitive job, of course he has to be there on time, and if that means leaving home a bit earlier just in case, then that's life.
Having said that, with the best will in the world, sometimes things happen which just can't be predicted. For example, if there is an accident on one of the three main routes from Epsom towards the M25/A3 in the morning, all three of them will back up and add half an hour or more to any journey within 20 minutes or so. That's not just weight of traffic, but something exceptional that might happen once every few months, and it hardly seems fair to harshly penalise someone for not taking that into account on a daily basis.
If it were me, I'd probably keep a record of arrival times for employees and give them a black mark for turning up late which expire after a couple of months. If they accrue more than 3 live black marks at any one time, then they're out on their arse.
Everyone has been hit by the odd calamitous travel scenario (my personal best was 100 mins late due to snow).
But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
Johnnytheboy said:
Everyone has been hit by the odd calamitous travel scenario (my personal best was 100 mins late due to snow).
But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
Yep. I do recall a serious accident on the M23 with tailbacks round the M25 resulting in a colleague being about 4 hours late. But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
We're all late on occasion and that can be forgiven, but regular lateness due to a 'known' problem is inexcusable. Allowing it sets a poor example for the rest of the team and before you know it, lots of people are taking the piss in lots of areas.
I had a guy working for me once that was late several times a week, sometimes up to 45 mins. He lived a fair distance away but in my view this was not an excuse as we covered it off at the interview. Traffic was always the excuse.
I gave him so many warnings and eventually told him that next time he was late I'd fire him. The following day he was late again (20 mins), so I fired him.
I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.
I had a guy working for me once that was late several times a week, sometimes up to 45 mins. He lived a fair distance away but in my view this was not an excuse as we covered it off at the interview. Traffic was always the excuse.
I gave him so many warnings and eventually told him that next time he was late I'd fire him. The following day he was late again (20 mins), so I fired him.
I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.
Hoofy said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Everyone has been hit by the odd calamitous travel scenario (my personal best was 100 mins late due to snow).
But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
Yep. I do recall a serious accident on the M23 with tailbacks round the M25 resulting in a colleague being about 4 hours late. But there is a normal distribution envelope of journey times, which you can reasonably expect. A decent employee will leave home to arrive on time at the bad end of that envelope, as it were.
foliedouce said:
I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.
Johnnytheboy said:
foliedouce said:
I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.
It decreased lateness though
foliedouce said:
I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.
I think in your situation it is of course having a knock on effect on someone else being able to start/leave so a quite POLITE word might be due.
In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.
I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.
I left after another 2 months.
In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.
I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.
I left after another 2 months.
minghis said:
Anyone else suffer from this excuse? Nearly every day someone turns up 10 - 15 minutes late and seems to think it's not their fault if "the traffic is bad".
They all live in the same town, there are roadworks going on, admittedly, but they are not life changing, just a bit more congestion than usual. Either they are incapable of finding an alternate route or they just can't figure out that they need to leave home a bit earlier.
I'm starting to firmly suggest they should leave earlier and am getting close to giving some verbal warnings, am I being reasonable or is bad traffic a legitimate excuse?
OP, your solution is this:They all live in the same town, there are roadworks going on, admittedly, but they are not life changing, just a bit more congestion than usual. Either they are incapable of finding an alternate route or they just can't figure out that they need to leave home a bit earlier.
I'm starting to firmly suggest they should leave earlier and am getting close to giving some verbal warnings, am I being reasonable or is bad traffic a legitimate excuse?
change the start time from 9am to 08:30am. this first half hour is then the prep time/paperwork/training/daily meeting etc period.
it gives you half an hour so should the worst happen your employees' tardiness does not impact your customers.
It also means people arriving late will be much more noticeable to the other staff members, which will force people to arrive on time, especially if they have left from the same time.
XMT said:
I think in your situation it is of course having a knock on effect on someone else being able to start/leave so a quite POLITE word might be due.
In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.
I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.
I left after another 2 months.
I've been in a similar situation before. In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.
I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.
I left after another 2 months.
If an employer pays little attention to my leaving times then I'll generally sweat a little less about getting in on time.
Making people come in earlier and earlier to beat each other in the traffic and arrive at an arbitary time just encourages a race to the bottom. Nobody wins.
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