Commercial land purchase & access rights

[RRLover]

Hi there,
I'm after some help reference an area of land i have purchased.
The land in question is in front of our business, a yard to be more precise.
For years we have been plagued by another business parking on this land, staff congregating on it, cars been driven erratically & vehicles being washed on it both company & personal. We bought the land from a neighbouring landlord Dec 16
The issue we have is that this other business is flexing its muscles.
The business in question is the council, the company vehicles were refuse vehicles.
There building backs onto our yard, they have fire escapes x 3 that access our land & a large door in the building that they open from time to time to wash there refuse vehicles.
They have there own access at there end & have plenty of fire escapes there also.
We have checked all covenants to ensure that they hadn't been granted access by previous owners.
So, they want full access for there vehicles to use the back door & they want a key for the yard so they can come & go as they please. I have declined this, am i within my rights to do so ?
I have been threatened today with legal action.
Sorry for the long winded post. TIA

[SystemParanoia]

Build a Wall




...and make them pay for it

[Leithen]

You clearly had legal involvement with the purchase. That ought to have made sure there was no burden on the ground from the neighbours. Present the legal threat to your lawyers and see what they say.

If it has no grounds (ha ha), then either fence it, landscape it or offer it to the council for an exorbitant rent.

[Davel]

Yep - talk to the legal team that you used to purchase the land.

Surely the guy selling to you should have made reference to it at the time.

[RRLover]

My legal guy is ok with it all. I asked him to check everything before we went ahead.
I'm going through a lengthy legal battle just now with something else that isnt our fault, dont really want another one.
Thanks for the info, i'll assume i can tell them to foxtrot oscar

[brrapp]

I'd start the ball rolling yourself with a letter stating that while they have no legal right of access onto or over your land, you are willing to negotiate access rights for an appropriate fee. That puts the onus back onto them to do the work to prove they have access rights, and then if they can't, gives you the option to make a little money from the situation or if they don't offer enough, you can decline their offer and stop access.
If they can prove they have access rights, then they've done some of the work for you in your case against the seller.

[Davel]

So is your legal guy saying that they do have a right of access or that they don't.

If not then tell them to keep off your land.

[RRLover]

My legal guy says they have no access rights. We checked all land registry titles before we purchased.
Its the typical council flexing a little

[blueg33]

How long have the Council been using the land for? They may have obtained rights by prescription, these won't show in the title until the Council try and get them registered.

Did you discuss the issue with your solicitor before buying the land? Did your solicitor make enquiries of the seller about third parties using the land? Did you have a "vacant possession" clause? if so was the land vacant when you completed the purchase? Did you inspect the land at completion to ensure it was vacant.

Normally you would get it fenced off before purchase to flush out any issues.

TBH I think you and your solicitor have dropped the ball, mainly the solicitor (assuming you are a land buying layman)

Did the solicitor visit the land? I make mine visit in every acquisition.

I think all you can do is fence the land to deny the Council access and then wait for them to prove they have prescriptive rights.

How old is the building with the fire escapes? If its more than 12 years the I think you will have difficulty in saying that there is no easement for those

[loafer123]

As others have said, if the building has had fire escape access for a long time they may have accrued an easement. I would be more surprised that any rights for vehicles including cleaning exist, as that would require sole occupation, which it doesn't sound like they have had.

[blueg33]

loafer123 said:

As others have said, if the building has had fire escape access for a long time they may have accrued an easement. I would be more surprised that any rights for vehicles including cleaning exist, as that would require sole occupation, which it doesn't sound like they have had.

Its tricky because you can get prescriptive rights for parking even if the vehicle is not there the whole time this could similarly apply to stopping a vehicle to wash it if the same spot is used. At very least there could be a prescribed right created across the land where the vehicles have been driven over it.

Interestingly, if the Council had permission from the previous owners then they may not have accrued any rights, one of the basis tenets of adverse possession is that it has to be without consent.

Where we are buying land that people are fly parking on, we make sure we give them permission, so that we can withdraw the permission when we need the land

[RRLover]

Thank you

[blueg33]

RRLover said:

My legal guy says they have no access rights. We checked all land registry titles before we purchased.
Its the typical council flexing a little

Your legal guy definitely failed Property Law Basic Level. Not everything is on the Title especially when its easy for 3rd parties to gain access. At the very least he should have asked you a series of questions about the site and asked similar questions of the seller

[Rangeroverover]

Its always difficult to ask your own lawyer "have you screwed up/missed something". The way to get the truth is say to your own lawyer can you get the file together as I need it for a possible lawsuit. At that point your lawyer will either fess up or get involved in sorting it out