How long before the suit and tie are dead and gone?
Discussion
Ties are ludicrous things, they get in the way all the time. Glad to see the back of them. Suits will remain because you are always going to need some sort of jacket.
All of these traditional accoutrements come from a time before they'd invented things like zippers, stretchy fabrics and elastic. Cufflinks, ties, braces, even belts, all workarounds, now largely no longer needed because we can make clothes which fit in the first place.
All of these traditional accoutrements come from a time before they'd invented things like zippers, stretchy fabrics and elastic. Cufflinks, ties, braces, even belts, all workarounds, now largely no longer needed because we can make clothes which fit in the first place.
iphonedyou said:
This old chestnut again.
The oddly recurring theme is a sort of 'trying too hard' from people who don't wear suits and ties. A bizarre need to prove that I'm absolutely OK with this and in fact I prefer it - ha, suit wearers!
Constant references to quality of work irrespective of attire, time warps, odd appeals to popularity (everyone I know hates wearing them! - really?) and similar. Who cares; you enjoy your casual look and I'll still be happy enough wearing my suit.
Makes no odds.
I was more thinking of it from the perspective of generational shift...The oddly recurring theme is a sort of 'trying too hard' from people who don't wear suits and ties. A bizarre need to prove that I'm absolutely OK with this and in fact I prefer it - ha, suit wearers!
Constant references to quality of work irrespective of attire, time warps, odd appeals to popularity (everyone I know hates wearing them! - really?) and similar. Who cares; you enjoy your casual look and I'll still be happy enough wearing my suit.
Makes no odds.
I don't remember every seeing my grandfather not in a suit and tie other than when he was in swimming trunks. Even when coming out to visit us when we lived in the South of France, he'd travel to the beach in a suit and tie in the middle of summer!
My father, now in his late 70s, will always wear a jacket and tie if he has anyone other than immediate family visiting the house.
I still occasionally wear a suit at work, but can't remember the last time I wore a tie. Outside work, I'm infinitely more likely to wear black tie than I am a suit, and I'll only wear black tie maybe once a year at most.
For my sons, I suspect that they will probably have to buy a suit for initial interviews when they leave Uni, but after that, I can only imagine them buying another one at any stage in their careers if they get too portly for that first one, as what would be the point?
As for the view on nobody liking them, just look around any typical modern office. Even where people do still wear them, nobody ever wears the jacket unless they have to, do they? Those go on at the last moment when a customer comes in for a meeting, probably come off again once they're in the meeting room, and only go back on again for the time it takes to walk the customer out. If anyone actually liked wearing a suit, surely they'd wear it in the office, rather than hanging it off the back of their chair?
ajcj said:
This seems like the most sensible approach to me. I am in the office now, wearing jeans (smart black) and a good shirt (cufflinks). For a customer meeting, or an interview, I will put on a suit and tie for two reasons: it is a sign of respect to those you are meeting;
To me, it's actually a sign of laziness, not of respect. You might get lucky and find that a suit and tie is the right dress code for meeting that particular customer, but if you turn up to a customer in a suit and tie when they're all wearing jeans and T-shirts, surely that just shows you couldn't be bothered to find out what was appropriate. How does that show them any respect?ajcj said:
I feel sharper, smarter, and more professional when I wear it.
Why close yourself off from the pleasure of putting on a really well-made suit with a crisp shirt and good shoes, and knotting a silk tie? If you have taken care, and bought quality items, you will look taller, slimmer, and more assured, and feel it too.
If you don't feel that way, fair enough, but you are missing out on one of life's pleasures, and I'll bet you have never worn a really good suit.
I've currently got two suits, both bespoke, one from King & Allen and one from Dress2kill. They might not be the most expensive bespoke suits in the world, but they're both still pretty decent suits.Why close yourself off from the pleasure of putting on a really well-made suit with a crisp shirt and good shoes, and knotting a silk tie? If you have taken care, and bought quality items, you will look taller, slimmer, and more assured, and feel it too.
If you don't feel that way, fair enough, but you are missing out on one of life's pleasures, and I'll bet you have never worn a really good suit.
They fit perfectly, and yes, they probably do manage to make me look taller and slimmer. I still can't stand wearing them! Admittedly, in my case, I'm actually allergic to wool, so as soon as I get even slightly too warm in them, it feels like I've had sandpaper glued to my skin, but even when it's suitably cool, I just don't like wearing suits, and spending a load of money on them has done nothing to change my view.
As for wearing a tie, I really hate the constricted feeling around my neck, so have to go with shirts that are so over-sized on the collar that I end up looking like I've got some sort of wasting disease which has made me lose 5 stone without having the time to go out and buy a new shirt. That's hardly the professional look I think you've got in mind!!!
CrutyRammers said:
Suits will remain because you are always going to need some sort of jacket.
What makes you think that?Most of the time from May to September, it's warm enough to not want a jacket, and if it's raining, I want a waterproof jacket.
From November to February, chances are I'll want something warmer than a suit jacket, and again, I'll probably want it to be waterproof just in case.
If it's for carrying stuff, I'll either have a laptop bag with me, or just a mobile phone, keys and maybe a wallet. Certainly nothing that actually requires significant jacket pockets, and if it did, I'd have dozens of people on here telling me immediately that I should never put anything in my suit jacket pockets anyway as it ruins the cut of the suit!
768 said:
I can't stand them and actively avoid roles that would require wearing one, something I couldn't afford to do at one point.
Similar here. I wasn't actively avoiding roles that needed a suit, but when I recently had the pick of several job offers the dress code did come in to play and I went with the "scruffy" option.ajcj said:
This seems like the most sensible approach to me. I am in the office now, wearing jeans (smart black) and a good shirt (cufflinks).
I'm no fashionista or even a particularly smart dresser, but I'd never combine those. Double-cuff shirts are strictly for suit wearing for me. Smart trousers, decent (single cuff) shirt, black shoes does me fine 99% of the time, and I spend lots of time in law firms, PS, financial, etc. Suit and tie strictly for initial meetings if I can't find out typical dress code.
I just find that suits are only convenient to wear for half the year (spring and autumn) - when it's too cold you want a coat, and when it's too hot you don't want to carry a jacket around.
I remember seeing old Irish workmen on site a few years ago who would wear shirt, tie, jumper and trousers under the high viz vests, all covered in dust from cutting slabs. Made me smile that they were still looking to be "smart" while working outside in all weather. I'm sure a tie isn't allowed now though.
Then you have the likes of Horse Racing. Specifically Ebor Festival in August at York. For the County Stand men have to wear Jacket and tie. So you can be in wellies with jeans and a polo shirt and as long as you put a jacket and tie on that's fine. But a smart suit with well cut shirt but no tie is unacceptable. In years when it's a hot August day having to have the jacket on is ridiculous. Modern update might be, suit trousers, formal shoes and formal tucked in shirt required as a minimum. Jacket optional when temperature exceeds say 20 degrees.
Kermit power said:
CrutyRammers said:
Suits will remain because you are always going to need some sort of jacket.
What makes you think that?Most of the time from May to September, it's warm enough to not want a jacket, and if it's raining, I want a waterproof jacket.
I rarely wear one myself because I hate the way they flap around, and are generally uncomfortable when done up, but I reckon they will stay as smart attire.
I work in IT and it's pretty outdated now. When i first started, suit, shirt and tie. Then the suit was dropped for smart trousers, shirt and tie. Now it's business causal which normally means chinos and a shirt, no tie. I've not worn a tie at work in years. Even our MD wears a company branded shirt and chinos. The only people around here (circa 450 staff on our site) in suits are customer facing sales guys.
I used to work for a UK company that had an US parent. The yanks would go about how us brits were obsessed with being in a "uniform" of suit and tie, we just chuckled as they all stood there in near-identical polo shirts, chinos and tassel loafers.
I then worked for easyJet where there were cut-off ties framed and mounted on the wall. In the early days whenever a supplier turned up in a tie, Stelios would reach for the scissors.
For me its a personal choice, shouldn't be dictated by custom & tradition. I get the uniform representing the brand to the customer but I think suits will die out in pretty much all industries within 10-20 years. Does make me laugh at the company I'm currently consulting with, only the IT department wear suits.
I then worked for easyJet where there were cut-off ties framed and mounted on the wall. In the early days whenever a supplier turned up in a tie, Stelios would reach for the scissors.
For me its a personal choice, shouldn't be dictated by custom & tradition. I get the uniform representing the brand to the customer but I think suits will die out in pretty much all industries within 10-20 years. Does make me laugh at the company I'm currently consulting with, only the IT department wear suits.
Edited by Speed 3 on Thursday 29th June 15:22
Sparkyhd said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40446102
It's now politically correct to not wear a tie.
Makes a change from "Put on a proper suit, do up your tie" It's now politically correct to not wear a tie.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35651000
I hope so.
I haven't worn a tie for years. In the office we wear whatever we feel more comfortable working in. Client meetings would be a suit, no tie, or if it's scorchio, trousers and shirt.
Personally I don't see the need. It's what the person does and says that counts. And going back to the chap that mentioned getting married in jeans and t-shirt, then that's me, next year I will be getting married in shorts and t-shirt (not abroad, in the UK) because that's how we feel more comfortable. Can live without the pomposity.
I haven't worn a tie for years. In the office we wear whatever we feel more comfortable working in. Client meetings would be a suit, no tie, or if it's scorchio, trousers and shirt.
Personally I don't see the need. It's what the person does and says that counts. And going back to the chap that mentioned getting married in jeans and t-shirt, then that's me, next year I will be getting married in shorts and t-shirt (not abroad, in the UK) because that's how we feel more comfortable. Can live without the pomposity.
hyphen said:
Insurance seem to still love suits with ties though.
I'm reading this in my office, having not long got back from a meeting with one of my largest clients, wearing navy chinos and a shirt with no tie. Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 28th June 22:30
But yes, you're right, my profession does still seem very obsessed with the whole suit thing. In fact, I've started viewing my smart casual get-up as part of my USP - no shiny suited salesman here!
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