Help me convince my partner that MLM is bad news...

[Zoon]

Frankthered said:

Recruiting others to sell the products is part of the business model.

Recruiting competition in your area, something all businesses do daily.
Said nobody ever.

Forever Living et al are all cult type scams.

Their secret phrase is "fake it to make it"

[anotheracc]

PotatoSalad said:

If this doesn't look like a religious cult, I don't know what does..

Amway Convention Teambuilders Organization

good god I lasted about 10 mins watching that...

[anotheracc]

A lot of people contributed on here during a difficult situation for me so thought I would update now we are nearly 9 months down the line...

She's fully out of MLM, thank god! She realised and after reading some of the comments on here, us chatting it through and watching the Herbalife film to understand how difficult it was to be one of the 1% that could succeed in MLM.

Not all of it was bad, it gave her some social media marketing skills and a small of understanding of what it is like to run your own thing, I won't even call MLM a business! We were left with about £900 of (overpriced) stock and I did a deal with her that I'd run the postage through my company and pay the ebay fees if we could sell it at cost price which we have, we're down to the last £150 ish I'd say now. So she has some funds to start something new and hasn't fully lost out on everything. Some of the lies she was told about being able to return unsold stock turned out to be 80llox....

She has a couple of new ventures on the cards now that she is pursuing that ARE NOT mlm which is great. She is looking to follow in her Dads footsteps and start retailing some products on eBay & an eCommerce website while also launching a food brand using her social media skills which is rapidly gathering followers, what she does with the food thing is unsure but if she gets some user traction we can look to monetise.

She is still also working full time while looking for another job that pays a higher salary.

All in all our relationship is stronger now too, she has realised that I used my experience to advise her out of a bad situation and then helped her get as much money back out as possible which is good.

Thanks for the advice on how to approach it and some of the stories you guys and girls shared on people you know who have fell into this trap.

My hatred of the MLM industry is still as great as ever.

Thanks

[Zoon]

Glad to try and help if I can.
Managed to avoid a similar situation with the wife when I spotted the scam a mile off.

[technodup]

The latest one to be aware of, The Travel Tribe.

Check the absolute dribble on this page. It's like a never ending circle jerk of utter .

I mean how mental do you have to be to be persuaded that going on a cruise you wouldn't normally go on, to go to a seminar and training session on said cruise, for a discount of 56% (in reality not discounted at all) is a great thing? I can see how the founder is making money...

And the first deal she put up I found a better price myself with 5mins online. There's literally no benefit, just puff and hype, and impressionable single mums doing the most pointless 'training' courses on random resorts whilst convincing each other next year they'll be millionaires. Mental.

https://www.facebook.com/jenna.burns.98

[anotheracc]

technodup said:

The latest one to be aware of, The Travel Tribe.

Check the absolute dribble on this page. It's like a never ending circle jerk of utter .

I mean how mental do you have to be to be persuaded that going on a cruise you wouldn't normally go on, to go to a seminar and training session on said cruise, for a discount of 56% (in reality not discounted at all) is a great thing? I can see how the founder is making money...

And the first deal she put up I found a better price myself with 5mins online. There's literally no benefit, just puff and hype, and impressionable single mums doing the most pointless 'training' courses on random resorts whilst convincing each other next year they'll be millionaires. Mental.

https://www.facebook.com/jenna.burns.98

OMFG I have just spent about 10 mins reading that poor girls Facebook and the many comments from other minions in her tribe all trying to make her social media look busy with their 'go girl' comments. Conning poor single mothers or stay at home mums with the promises of a fortune if they attend a seminar on an overpriced cruise that they normally wouldn't dream of going on. How many borrow to go on that cruise I wonder....

People at the top are just normal travel agents with a different route to market making ££££ in commission while the poor girls with dreams of doing something with their lives realise a year down the line that their aunt/friend/ex-colleague/random acquaintance would rather book with Thomas Cook and then they have to deal with paying off the debt.

One good thing though, at least they wont be left with a garage full of stock!

[technodup]

anotheracc said:

OMFG I have just spent about 10 mins reading that poor girls Facebook and the many comments from other minions in her tribe all trying to make her social media look busy with their 'go girl' comments.

Same MO every time. A few months ago she was into some coffee thing (the next big thing obvs!), it was slimming wraps before that, now travel. All bks, all short lived, and without being a I know where she lives and it's pretty much the worst bit of Glasgow bar none. The dream is still a dream.

I started a real business last year and without question have made more revenue and profit than she's done in all the MLMs together. The ironic thing is she could probably do the same if she had the confidence to do something for herself instead of getting swallowed up into the merry go round of con men and charlatans in MLM.

[ROSSinHD]

I am presuming Adventures Overseas is one of these things. A lad I know lists himself as CEO Marketeer Entrepreneur blah blah and constantly posting photos with a stupid blue sign saying “you should be here”., I will give it to him he does go to some cool destinations though.

The best post was a video proving he gets paid by pre paid cards and withdrawing a staggering £20 from a cash point. On the other hand he is constantly listing things for sale for a couple of quid so maybe that £20 hasn’t quite stretched to paying the bills.

How does this one work? Is he getting these trips for free or is it his expense in order to expand his empire?

[technodup]

ROSSinHD said:

How does this one work? Is he getting these trips for free or is it his expense in order to expand his empire?

Without looking at it there are two ways that situation would happen.

1. He paid for it.
2. He sold many many thousands of pounds of sales, which generated him enough in commission/bonus to allow it. But be very sure, for the 'upline' to 'give away' a 'free' holiday he's probably done 30x the value himself. And if he was that good a sales guy he'd surely be selling something for himself and keeping all the spoils, not being thrown a token bone once a year. Which brings me back to point 1.

[sl0wlane]

This stuff fascinates me, the psychology used to indoctrinate the minions, the way they embed a belief of making real money... while paying nothing, or perhaps getting your own product for "free" - you have to give it to them, it's well sold and clever...horribly evil, but clever.

I have a friend (well, friend of the mrs), deep into this lot: https://www.isagenix.com/en-GB/

She has lost weight on it... because when on the "cleanse" you are consuming about 1200 calaories a day.. anybody will lose weight on that...

I'm really trying to work out a positive, non confrontational way of making her think about the scheme she is in, why she's is not going to make any money etc...

Anyone got a nice way of putting it? Perhaps I should tell her to watch the betting on zero video?

What I don't want to do is alienate one off the Mrs good friends.. but at the same time... she needs saving, and that's the right thing to do... tricky.

Edited by sl0wlane on Thursday 22 March 07:16

[StevieBee]

sl0wlane said:

This stuff fascinates me, the psychology used to indoctrinate the minions, the way they embed a belief of making real money... while paying nothing, or perhaps getting your own product for "free" - you have to give it to them, it's well sold and clever...horribly evil, but clever.

Yep. I'm the same. Friend's wife; quite a well off family anyway, got suckered into Aloe Life Wealth bks. It is like a cult.

I've long thought that if some of these companies were more transparent and honest, they could be good things. Avon and Tupperware are both, effectively, MLM companies but neither proclaim the opportunity of great wealth; just a means to earn a bit of money.

[theboss]

anotheracc said:

Eric Mc said:

It's a cult operation- thinly disguised as a business.

certainly is. This one my partner was in with has a MORMON background. Now I've nothing against mormons but it's clear some of the cultish/riligion type stuff is fed into the business.

This is a very interesting point.

I was raised in a Mormon family and although most (including myself) have fortunately distanced thenselves from it, I have many Mormon friends. They absolutely love MLM. Look at the registered addresses for these companies and you’ll see a huge number of them are based in Utah. It seems to fit with their culture and general susceptibility to delusion.

[anotheracc]

technodup said:

anotheracc said:

OMFG I have just spent about 10 mins reading that poor girls Facebook and the many comments from other minions in her tribe all trying to make her social media look busy with their 'go girl' comments.

Same MO every time. A few months ago she was into some coffee thing (the next big thing obvs!), it was slimming wraps before that, now travel. All bks, all short lived, and without being a I know where she lives and it's pretty much the worst bit of Glasgow bar none. The dream is still a dream.

I started a real business last year and without question have made more revenue and profit than she's done in all the MLMs together. The ironic thing is she could probably do the same if she had the confidence to do something for herself instead of getting swallowed up into the merry go round of con men and charlatans in MLM.

My partner and I looked at that page and the similarities in her posting style and content compared to every other girl doing MLM is huge. Take away the product/service and you can guarantee the following:

3 posts a day, 1 motivational, 1 person, 1 product.service related.

Large use of aspirational imagery

Never revealing too much about what it is they actually do, create a sense of mystery intrigue.

Any comment asking for info, Inbox me hun

Big emphasis on the paycheck, even if in reality it's £26 for the month,.,,!

No sign of another job, even though 99% will have a day job that actually pays for the stuff she is posting about

Actual product being promoted, very little, the opportunity being sold - HUGE promotion.

[anotheracc]

ROSSinHD said:

I am presuming Adventures Overseas is one of these things. A lad I know lists himself as CEO Marketeer Entrepreneur blah blah and constantly posting photos with a stupid blue sign saying “you should be here”., I will give it to him he does go to some cool destinations though.

The best post was a video proving he gets paid by pre paid cards and withdrawing a staggering £20 from a cash point. On the other hand he is constantly listing things for sale for a couple of quid so maybe that £20 hasn’t quite stretched to paying the bills.

How does this one work? Is he getting these trips for free or is it his expense in order to expand his empire?

Well where my partner was concerned she went to a seminar in marbella, was encourage to post stuff like ' does your annual conference look like this and imply it was a freebie. In reality it cost her a lot to go, financed by her day job and some money borrowed from her mother

[anotheracc]

sl0wlane said:

This stuff fascinates me, the psychology used to indoctrinate the minions, the way they embed a belief of making real money... while paying nothing, or perhaps getting your own product for "free" - you have to give it to them, it's well sold and clever...horribly evil, but clever.

I have a friend (well, friend of the mrs), deep into this lot: https://www.isagenix.com/en-GB/

She has lost weight on it... because when on the "cleanse" you are consuming about 1200 calaories a day.. anybody will lose weight on that...

I'm really trying to work out a positive, non confrontational way of making her think about the scheme she is in, why she's is not going to make any money etc...

Anyone got a nice way of putting it? Perhaps I should tell her to watch the betting on zero video?

What I don't want to do is alienate one off the Mrs good friends.. but at the same time... she needs saving, and that's the right thing to do... tricky.

Edited by sl0wlane on Thursday 22 March 07:16

This was the position I was in but with someone much closer to me, ie my partner. I got with her when she was fully indoctrinated into it which made it much harder. They instil that others, ie us, will want you to fail etc etc and to take any criticism as a failure on the part of us to have any ambition etc. Luckily for me I'm successful in what I do and have nice things around me so my partner listened to me as I've been around the block and been in business a long time. It took a lengthy conversation in which got upset for me to un-indoctrinate her if you will.

I'd almost say that unless you care for the person then dont bother as she will most likely cut you out before she quits them. Its really cultish. She'll have loads of other like minded women telling her to ignore you and lying that they are earning loads just because she is in their downline and they need to keep reps under them.

Its f*****ing horrible.


The comment above about how many real businesses actively look to promote competition in their local area struck a chord with my partner. She comes from a businessy family, hence wanting to do her own thing so once I explained the business behind it and how MLM goes against everything a traditional business aims for she sort of got it but it was hard for her to come away from it, they really try and make them part of the family.

Its a very strange thing and I'm glad I got her out. For a while I'm sure she did it for me only and not because she fully believed it was bad having been brainwashed at many a seminar. I think now many months down the line its in her past.

I would suggest getting your friend to read to read this thread and see how I had to handle it with kid gloves and the many posters who helped advise me. Get her to watch the betting on zero film too, parts of that should resonate. Although outwardly she will be portraying the whole im so succesful beach life b0ll0x on the inside she will know its proving much harder than she thought.

Then hit her with the stats that only 1% make money etc etc

GOOD LUCK

[48k]

Looking like a friend of mine has been assimilated in to the Borg I'm guessing her answer is straight from week one of "How To Deal With Muggles".

[PixelpeepS3]

Have seen this time and time again on FB,

Herbalife, Aloe, etc and as i previously mentioned, personal experience of he original MLM, amway

For some people - ie, those that don't care about stepping on their own mother to move up in the world it works, but you have to commit totally to the 'cause' for it to work.

i guess that's the cult factor isn't it, draw you in with promises and riches,talk to everyone personally so you can 'work on them' rather than posting exactly what it involves, then just pump the 'Living the Dream' posts on social media... "my family are so proud of me" ,"i'm so happy i can spend all day with the kids, being here when they get home, only working when i want to" etc etc

One girl kept posting photos of her shopping in expensive shops, but you never saw the bags, or bought products, just her trying crap on..

Its genuinely sad that you'd have to put on such bravado to trick others into your fold. They either believe the bullst they're spouting or desperately sad - either is not good.

[Hoofy]

Well, without them, Instagram would be empty.