Credit card fraud, goods now on ebay!
Discussion
In a similar vein I have been targeted on an ecommerce site I have with credit card fraudsters. Most recently coming from Rotterdam, Netherlands. They recently got away with a smaller transaction (£600) without us noticing and then tried to process a larger (£1300) transaction which was flagged up. We asked for ID documents and proof of address to process the order, or would issue a refund. They happily obliged to send ID documents which under VERY close inspection had had the name photoshopped, proof of address were sent in the form of PDFs which was all very convincing. We thought better and issued a refund and a few weeks later the original transaction of £600 was charged back.
A few months of being quiet and suddenly they're back at it again, protocol is to just issue a refund. Police never interested.
Any creative ways to mess them about? Sending an empty box is an obvious one...
A few months of being quiet and suddenly they're back at it again, protocol is to just issue a refund. Police never interested.
Any creative ways to mess them about? Sending an empty box is an obvious one...
raw said:
In a similar vein I have been targeted on an ecommerce site I have with credit card fraudsters. Most recently coming from Rotterdam, Netherlands. They recently got away with a smaller transaction (£600) without us noticing and then tried to process a larger (£1300) transaction which was flagged up. We asked for ID documents and proof of address to process the order, or would issue a refund. They happily obliged to send ID documents which under VERY close inspection had had the name photoshopped, proof of address were sent in the form of PDFs which was all very convincing. We thought better and issued a refund and a few weeks later the original transaction of £600 was charged back.
A few months of being quiet and suddenly they're back at it again, protocol is to just issue a refund. Police never interested.
Any creative ways to mess them about? Sending an empty box is an obvious one...
Box with not enough postage.A few months of being quiet and suddenly they're back at it again, protocol is to just issue a refund. Police never interested.
Any creative ways to mess them about? Sending an empty box is an obvious one...
Look up "Anus Laptop Scam".
a said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "can't do anything via PayPal"?
You can.
Raise a PayPal dispute. Say it's not as advertised. Agree to send it back. Send back a (tracked) empty box. You have proof of post... Job done.
You can't raise a PayPal dispute though, if bought via eBay then PayPal just takes you back to the eBay Resolution Program which won't do anything unless you return the item.You can.
Raise a PayPal dispute. Say it's not as advertised. Agree to send it back. Send back a (tracked) empty box. You have proof of post... Job done.
Can't believe I've only just stumbled on this thread!
I own several ecommerce businesses and we see so much fraud (and attempted fraud) I don't know where to begin.
Birmingham is a hotspot for it, so is London. Leicester and Bradford are also bad, and M19 and M20 in Manchester.
Basically, the police do. not. care. They literally don't give a s
t. We had a woman do us for £262 two weeks ago. I reported her to our local force who told me it was a civil matter. Since when has fraud been a civil matter?
Fingers crossed we spot most fraud, but we do lose a couple of grand each month to it (in context with our sales though, it's a fraction of a percent).
What irks me the most, is that people know they can get away with it and that it's a risk free crime. We have people running 10+ stolen card numbers through our site before getting a hit. We also get 10+ fraudulent orders from the same person and address. They're so brazen about it nowadays because they know the police don't care and Action Fraud are a joke.
Such a sad state of affairs that so many small businesses have to pick up the cost of fraud.
If it's not credit card fraud, we're having to deal with people claiming they received an empty envelope or an empty box.
So frustrating having to sit there and suck it up. I pay well into six figures each year in tax and I get zero service or help with this problem. Argh!
I own several ecommerce businesses and we see so much fraud (and attempted fraud) I don't know where to begin.
Birmingham is a hotspot for it, so is London. Leicester and Bradford are also bad, and M19 and M20 in Manchester.
Basically, the police do. not. care. They literally don't give a s
t. We had a woman do us for £262 two weeks ago. I reported her to our local force who told me it was a civil matter. Since when has fraud been a civil matter?Fingers crossed we spot most fraud, but we do lose a couple of grand each month to it (in context with our sales though, it's a fraction of a percent).
What irks me the most, is that people know they can get away with it and that it's a risk free crime. We have people running 10+ stolen card numbers through our site before getting a hit. We also get 10+ fraudulent orders from the same person and address. They're so brazen about it nowadays because they know the police don't care and Action Fraud are a joke.
Such a sad state of affairs that so many small businesses have to pick up the cost of fraud.
If it's not credit card fraud, we're having to deal with people claiming they received an empty envelope or an empty box.
So frustrating having to sit there and suck it up. I pay well into six figures each year in tax and I get zero service or help with this problem. Argh!
MrSparks said:
a said:
Can you please explain what you mean by "can't do anything via PayPal"?
You can.
Raise a PayPal dispute. Say it's not as advertised. Agree to send it back. Send back a (tracked) empty box. You have proof of post... Job done.
You can't raise a PayPal dispute though, if bought via eBay then PayPal just takes you back to the eBay Resolution Program which won't do anything unless you return the item.You can.
Raise a PayPal dispute. Say it's not as advertised. Agree to send it back. Send back a (tracked) empty box. You have proof of post... Job done.
foobies said:
Can't believe I've only just stumbled on this thread!
I own several ecommerce businesses and we see so much fraud (and attempted fraud) I don't know where to begin.
Birmingham is a hotspot for it, so is London. Leicester and Bradford are also bad, and M19 and M20 in Manchester.
Basically, the police do. not. care. They literally don't give a st. We had a woman do us for £262 two weeks ago. I reported her to our local force who told me it was a civil matter. Since when has fraud been a civil matter?
Fingers crossed we spot most fraud, but we do lose a couple of grand each month to it (in context with our sales though, it's a fraction of a percent).
What irks me the most, is that people know they can get away with it and that it's a risk free crime. We have people running 10+ stolen card numbers through our site before getting a hit. We also get 10+ fraudulent orders from the same person and address. They're so brazen about it nowadays because they know the police don't care and Action Fraud are a joke.
Such a sad state of affairs that so many small businesses have to pick up the cost of fraud.
If it's not credit card fraud, we're having to deal with people claiming they received an empty envelope or an empty box.
So frustrating having to sit there and suck it up. I pay well into six figures each year in tax and I get zero service or help with this problem. Argh!
Its incredibly frustrating that police will not treat blatant fraud as fraud.I own several ecommerce businesses and we see so much fraud (and attempted fraud) I don't know where to begin.
Birmingham is a hotspot for it, so is London. Leicester and Bradford are also bad, and M19 and M20 in Manchester.
Basically, the police do. not. care. They literally don't give a s
t. We had a woman do us for £262 two weeks ago. I reported her to our local force who told me it was a civil matter. Since when has fraud been a civil matter?Fingers crossed we spot most fraud, but we do lose a couple of grand each month to it (in context with our sales though, it's a fraction of a percent).
What irks me the most, is that people know they can get away with it and that it's a risk free crime. We have people running 10+ stolen card numbers through our site before getting a hit. We also get 10+ fraudulent orders from the same person and address. They're so brazen about it nowadays because they know the police don't care and Action Fraud are a joke.
Such a sad state of affairs that so many small businesses have to pick up the cost of fraud.
If it's not credit card fraud, we're having to deal with people claiming they received an empty envelope or an empty box.
So frustrating having to sit there and suck it up. I pay well into six figures each year in tax and I get zero service or help with this problem. Argh!
I lost a car in a fraud many years ago, and the police simply dismissed it as a civil matter.
It really is at the point where fraudsters don't even bother to hide these days.
Yon need to enable 3D secure on your website, then they cant do a chargback, it may affect your conversion rate but for us selling high value low margin products its a savior!!!
We have lost tens of thousands of pounds to credit card fraud over the years, including Rotterdam, Netherlands recently funnily enough as per previous post.
We have reported several times to the police and and action fraud, total wast of time, the whole thing is a scandal
Its funny how the consumer thinks that the bank will cover them if their card is stolen, when in fact its the store/website that is at a loss every time, the bank or credit card companies does not loose a penny!
We have lost tens of thousands of pounds to credit card fraud over the years, including Rotterdam, Netherlands recently funnily enough as per previous post.
We have reported several times to the police and and action fraud, total wast of time, the whole thing is a scandal
Its funny how the consumer thinks that the bank will cover them if their card is stolen, when in fact its the store/website that is at a loss every time, the bank or credit card companies does not loose a penny!
xjay1337 said:
I want an update!
We have given up. The police have not returned any of our calls and appear to have kicked it into the long grass.I suggest to others contact the BBC and your local press, they were interested in bringing in a crew to film us but I wasn't around at the right time. Plus we are small potatoes really compared to what some have lost.
This seems to be the only way to get a reaction, make a load of noise and see what happens, what else can we do if the police don't care, I am awaiting a call back from a local reporter to see if he can get anything out of them?
Until this happened I never really appreciated how bad this all was, £20 million a day apparently: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/30/uk_financ...
https://www.financialfraudaction.org.uk/news/2017/...
BGARK said:
We have given up. The police have not returned any of our calls and appear to have kicked it into the long grass.
I suggest to others contact the BBC and your local press, they were interested in bringing in a crew to film us but I wasn't around at the right time. Plus we are small potatoes really compared to what some have lost.
This seems to be the only way to get a reaction, make a load of noise and see what happens, what else can we do if the police don't care, I am awaiting a call back from a local reporter to see if he can get anything out of them?
Until this happened I never really appreciated how bad this all was, £20 million a day apparently: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/30/uk_financ...
https://www.financialfraudaction.org.uk/news/2017/...
Why not do what is suggested in the 1st reply? I would have done it! I suggest to others contact the BBC and your local press, they were interested in bringing in a crew to film us but I wasn't around at the right time. Plus we are small potatoes really compared to what some have lost.
This seems to be the only way to get a reaction, make a load of noise and see what happens, what else can we do if the police don't care, I am awaiting a call back from a local reporter to see if he can get anything out of them?
Until this happened I never really appreciated how bad this all was, £20 million a day apparently: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/30/uk_financ...
https://www.financialfraudaction.org.uk/news/2017/...
Trax8 said:
Yon need to enable 3D secure on your website, then they cant do a chargback, it may affect your conversion rate but for us selling high value low margin products its a savior!!!
We have lost tens of thousands of pounds to credit card fraud over the years, including Rotterdam, Netherlands recently funnily enough as per previous post.
We have reported several times to the police and and action fraud, total wast of time, the whole thing is a scandal
Its funny how the consumer thinks that the bank will cover them if their card is stolen, when in fact its the store/website that is at a loss every time, the bank or credit card companies does not loose a penny!
3D secure doesn't mean that a chargeback can't be filed. It just makes it harder for fraudsters to use stolen cards without the verification info. We have lost tens of thousands of pounds to credit card fraud over the years, including Rotterdam, Netherlands recently funnily enough as per previous post.
We have reported several times to the police and and action fraud, total wast of time, the whole thing is a scandal
Its funny how the consumer thinks that the bank will cover them if their card is stolen, when in fact its the store/website that is at a loss every time, the bank or credit card companies does not loose a penny!
Over the last two weeks we have been targeted 6 times by a fraudster in Bradford. Using 6 different stolen cards (but the correct billing names and addresses). Reported it to West Yorkshire Police. Took me a while to convince them to take it seriously. Anyway after passing it to an officer, the officer called me to say they're not going to take any further action because they have no history of these types of crimes at the address in question. Wtf?
She did suggest I might want to report it to Action Fraud so they can decide if another police force should investigate it. Bearing in mind the address was on her patch, somehow I doubt anyone else will be investigating it.
The lack of concern from the authorities towards online fraud is disgusting. And the inability for there to be just one body that deals with fraud (properly, not like Action Fraud) is ridiculous.
If I didn't have a job and was hard up or fancied some freebies, I'd just commit online fraud. It's officially a risk free crime. In fact I don't even think it is a crime any more. Don't bother working kids, just do fraud!
foobies said:
3D secure doesn't mean that a chargeback can't be filed. It just makes it harder for fraudsters to use stolen cards without the verification info.
Over the last two weeks we have been targeted 6 times by a fraudster in Bradford. Using 6 different stolen cards (but the correct billing names and addresses). Reported it to West Yorkshire Police. Took me a while to convince them to take it seriously. Anyway after passing it to an officer, the officer called me to say they're not going to take any further action because they have no history of these types of crimes at the address in question. Wtf?
She did suggest I might want to report it to Action Fraud so they can decide if another police force should investigate it. Bearing in mind the address was on her patch, somehow I doubt anyone else will be investigating it.
The lack of concern from the authorities towards online fraud is disgusting. And the inability for there to be just one body that deals with fraud (properly, not like Action Fraud) is ridiculous.
If I didn't have a job and was hard up or fancied some freebies, I'd just commit online fraud. It's officially a risk free crime. In fact I don't even think it is a crime any more. Don't bother working kids, just do fraud!
If a payment has gone through 3D secure they cant do a chargeback, same as if a pin number was used on a EPOS, cant do chargbacks.Over the last two weeks we have been targeted 6 times by a fraudster in Bradford. Using 6 different stolen cards (but the correct billing names and addresses). Reported it to West Yorkshire Police. Took me a while to convince them to take it seriously. Anyway after passing it to an officer, the officer called me to say they're not going to take any further action because they have no history of these types of crimes at the address in question. Wtf?
She did suggest I might want to report it to Action Fraud so they can decide if another police force should investigate it. Bearing in mind the address was on her patch, somehow I doubt anyone else will be investigating it.
The lack of concern from the authorities towards online fraud is disgusting. And the inability for there to be just one body that deals with fraud (properly, not like Action Fraud) is ridiculous.
If I didn't have a job and was hard up or fancied some freebies, I'd just commit online fraud. It's officially a risk free crime. In fact I don't even think it is a crime any more. Don't bother working kids, just do fraud!
So people take note, please get 3D secure enabled!!!
Trax8 said:
If a payment has gone through 3D secure they cant do a chargeback, same as if a pin number was used on a EPOS, cant do chargbacks.
So people take note, please get 3D secure enabled!!!
That is not correct. A chargeback can still be raised if an item is not as described.So people take note, please get 3D secure enabled!!!
I have also been told by merchant providers that unauthorised chargebacks can be raised if the order is sent to an address that is not the billing address, even if they pass 3D secure.
Trax8 said:
If a payment has gone through 3D secure they cant do a chargeback, same as if a pin number was used on a EPOS, cant do chargbacks.
So people take note, please get 3D secure enabled!!!
Your post is incorrect. Using 3D secure does not mean a chargeback cannot be initiated by a cardholder.So people take note, please get 3D secure enabled!!!
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