Opinions on IR35 and its impact on contractors?
Discussion
sugerbear said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think this is incredibly short-sighted. What the country really needs right now, more than ever with Brexit looming, is a flexible workforce.
A permie can give notice and move jobs. They can also take two, three or more jobs st the same time and they can be fixed term or permanent. Not sure how that is any different for a contractor or permanent member of staff.
Whereas for a contractor thats a way of life.
sugerbear said:
A permie can give notice and move jobs. They can also take two, three or more jobs st the same time and they can be fixed term or permanent.
Not sure how that is any different for a contractor or permanent member of staff.
From the point of view of a client / employer, if they need someone for 3 months they are very unlikely to be able to bring in a permanent employee for that time, on short notice, even on a fixed-term contract. Especially if that person has a lot of specialist knowledge and doesn't want to be employed that way. Not sure how that is any different for a contractor or permanent member of staff.
Or, for work where the employer needs someone with specialist knowledge for an unspecified short-term period, if they employ someone, they are going to have to make them redundant again when the period ends (whenever that is). If the employee has been there long enough, there may be redundancy payments due.
The main benefit that freelancers offer, aside from their ability to hit the ground running, is "easy hire / easy fire", making them ideal for short term engagements. And without the worry of employment law.
Deep Thought said:
sugerbear said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think this is incredibly short-sighted. What the country really needs right now, more than ever with Brexit looming, is a flexible workforce.
A permie can give notice and move jobs. They can also take two, three or more jobs st the same time and they can be fixed term or permanent. Not sure how that is any different for a contractor or permanent member of staff.
Whereas for a contractor thats a way of life.
alfie2244 said:
Deep Thought said:
sugerbear said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think this is incredibly short-sighted. What the country really needs right now, more than ever with Brexit looming, is a flexible workforce.
A permie can give notice and move jobs. They can also take two, three or more jobs st the same time and they can be fixed term or permanent. Not sure how that is any different for a contractor or permanent member of staff.
Whereas for a contractor thats a way of life.
x5x3 said:
alfie2244 said:
Not forgetting the taxation rules around travel & accommodation will change.
no they won't if the Contractor is not "caught" by IR35.Lots of legitimate contractors in Public sector were "caught" by blanket decisions and there is a now a "shortage" of contractors in certain areas.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
From the point of view of a client / employer, if they need someone for 3 months they are very unlikely to be able to bring in a permanent employee for that time, on short notice, even on a fixed-term contract. Especially if that person has a lot of specialist knowledge and doesn't want to be employed that way.
Or, for work where the employer needs someone with specialist knowledge for an unspecified short-term period, if they employ someone, they are going to have to make them redundant again when the period ends (whenever that is). If the employee has been there long enough, there may be redundancy payments due.
The main benefit that freelancers offer, aside from their ability to hit the ground running, is "easy hire / easy fire", making them ideal for short term engagements. And without the worry of employment law.
Employment law is more than flexible enough for short term requirements if an effort is made e.g. for a term of employment less than two years, the statutory notice period is one week and there is no entitlement to redundancy.Or, for work where the employer needs someone with specialist knowledge for an unspecified short-term period, if they employ someone, they are going to have to make them redundant again when the period ends (whenever that is). If the employee has been there long enough, there may be redundancy payments due.
The main benefit that freelancers offer, aside from their ability to hit the ground running, is "easy hire / easy fire", making them ideal for short term engagements. And without the worry of employment law.
The reality is that effort is not made because avarice and indolence favour evading responsibilities wherever possible.
There is a fundamental difference between someone genuinely in business for themselves and someone who job hops reasonably regularly. It is a not a choice where you can self declare which happens to be most the convenient.
Ducking responsibilities under employment law and inappropriate reliance on tax reliefs is no different to low wages being subsidised by tax credits.
ninja-lewis said:
There is a fundamental difference between someone genuinely in business for themselves and someone who job hops reasonably regularly. It is a not a choice where you can self declare which happens to be most the convenient.
No there isn't, it's a matter of degree. If someone job hops between contracts that only last a few weeks or months in widely spaced locations it isn't practical to relocate every time. If you work for a large company such as a software house that assigns you to remote sites the travel expense is tax deductible for just that reason, so why shouldn't it be if you work through a personal service company?IR35 is largely the result of software houses trying to eliminate competition from contractors.
Dr Jekyll said:
IR35 is largely the result of software houses trying to eliminate competition from contractors.
And there I was thinking it was the 20+ years of people & organisations blatantly, and in large scale, taking the piss.The SI’s have a lot to answer for - widescale visa fraud, broadly being responsible for the UK IT skills shortage and of course, being bloody useless.
alfie2244 said:
True...what % of existing do you think will be "caught" when it becomes the employers' responsibility to decide?
Lots of legitimate contractors in Public sector were "caught" by blanket decisions and there is a now a "shortage" of contractors in certain areas.
Lots of legitimate contractors in Public sector were "caught" by blanket decisions and there is a now a "shortage" of contractors in certain areas.
A lot of Public Sector employers just took a blanket approach.
I think a lot of private sector employers will do the same.
bga said:
And there I was thinking it was the 20+ years of people & organisations blatantly, and in large scale, taking the piss.
The SI’s have a lot to answer for - widescale visa fraud, broadly being responsible for the UK IT skills shortage and of course, being bloody useless.
IR35 was aggressively lobbied for by the large body shops. Small independent contractors are direct competition for them, and undercut them. They would like nothing better than to see us out of business.The SI’s have a lot to answer for - widescale visa fraud, broadly being responsible for the UK IT skills shortage and of course, being bloody useless.
alfie2244 said:
x5x3 said:
alfie2244 said:
Not forgetting the taxation rules around travel & accommodation will change.
no they won't if the Contractor is not "caught" by IR35.Lots of legitimate contractors in Public sector were "caught" by blanket decisions and there is a now a "shortage" of contractors in certain areas.
The point with IR35 remains the same, if you truly are in business on your own then you will not be "caught" - it is up to the individual to decide that and if true then they have to behave in a suitable manner in terms of contracts/ways of working, etc.
x5x3 said:
The point with IR35 remains the same, if you truly are in business on your own then you will not be "caught" - it is up to the individual to decide that and if true then they have to behave in a suitable manner in terms of contracts/ways of working, etc.
But that is the whole point - it is not going to be up to the individual to decide. It is going to be up to the engager to decide. x5x3 said:
Well that depends who you ask of course. I've heard a lot of stories but I did hear of some contractors working for HMRC themselves who were deemed not 'caught" by HMRC themselves.
The point with IR35 remains the same, if you truly are in business on your own then you will not be "caught" - it is up to the individual to decide that and if true then they have to behave in a suitable manner in terms of contracts/ways of working, etc.
Worth signing up to:The point with IR35 remains the same, if you truly are in business on your own then you will not be "caught" - it is up to the individual to decide that and if true then they have to behave in a suitable manner in terms of contracts/ways of working, etc.
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/ir35-reform/
Clockwork Cupcake said:
x5x3 said:
The point with IR35 remains the same, if you truly are in business on your own then you will not be "caught" - it is up to the individual to decide that and if true then they have to behave in a suitable manner in terms of contracts/ways of working, etc.
But that is the whole point - it is not going to be up to the individual to decide. It is going to be up to the engager to decide. Dr Jekyll said:
Ouch. Like all good satire, that's so very uncomfortably close to reality. Clockwork Cupcake said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Ouch. Like all good satire, that's so very uncomfortably close to reality. Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff