Discussion
Eric Mc said:
If a VAT return is due at the end of April 2019, then the VAT return itself must be for the three months, January, February and March 2019. That VAT return can still be submitted under the "old" system.
The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
Actually I should have been clearer. My books used to go to the accountant at the end of April (including Aprils invoices) so my return is Feb/Mar/Apr. Does that mean I need to submit the under MTD?The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
98elise said:
Eric Mc said:
If a VAT return is due at the end of April 2019, then the VAT return itself must be for the three months, January, February and March 2019. That VAT return can still be submitted under the "old" system.
The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
Actually I should have been clearer. My books used to go to the accountant at the end of April (including Aprils invoices) so my return is Feb/Mar/Apr. Does that mean I need to submit the under MTD?The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
Eric Mc said:
I will. It's completely unnecessary hassle and in the end, the clients will have to pay for it - sadly.
As a client, it's bad enough that I am expected to pay out extra money for software that appears to do a lot of my accountant's work for them. Or, at the very least, gives me no benefit for the extra money. For them to raise their fees too would be even more galling.No accountant should ever submit anything on behalf of a client without checking the submission first and confirming the submission with the client before pressing transmit. If the client had previously been submitting their own VAT returns but will now want the accountant to do it on his/her behalf- that is extra work for the accountant which they should be able to charge for.
That's a bit apples to oranges imo.
If an accontant previously submitted vat returns, just curious what extra work is involved.
If the client previously submitted the return and now wants the accountant to do it, that's only incidentally to do with MTD.
Presumably the client can continue to submit on their own if they so choose.
If an accontant previously submitted vat returns, just curious what extra work is involved.
If the client previously submitted the return and now wants the accountant to do it, that's only incidentally to do with MTD.
Presumably the client can continue to submit on their own if they so choose.
sambucket said:
That's a bit apples to oranges imo.
If an accontant previously submitted vat returns, just curious what extra work is involved.
If the client previously submitted the return and now wants the accountant to do it, that's only incidentally to do with MTD.
Presumably the client can continue to submit on their own if they so choose.
If the accountant previously submitted the VAT returns, then there is less of an issue - although there is the extra hassle of having to sign up to be a VAT agent all over again.If an accontant previously submitted vat returns, just curious what extra work is involved.
If the client previously submitted the return and now wants the accountant to do it, that's only incidentally to do with MTD.
Presumably the client can continue to submit on their own if they so choose.
However, my expectation is that many people who previously were happy to submit their own returns may now very well recruit their accountants to do so under MTD.
For my scenario..
Before
Accountant supplied a really rather awesome Excel spreadsheet that does all the calculations necessary for me to submit the VAT return myself via HMRC's website. My account merely checks the spreadsheet for errors.
Accountant prepares all submissions for SA, Corporation Tax, etc etc. as well, presumably calculated by their own software, which presumably extracts all data from those spreadsheets plus extra information they ask me to supply.
After
Accountant wants me to spend £15pcm (£180pa) on software that captures all the above information, and also does all those calculations for them. And presents them with all the information they need in a common format which allows them to automate their tasks far better and more efficiently.
Benefit to me: None really. Maybe slightly less work for me as I can link the company bank account to the software, and also don't need to manually cut & paste the VAT fields of the spreadsheet into the VAT submission form on the HMRC website. Really not worth an extra £15pcm though.
Benefit to accountant: Does most of their calculations for them, and is a lot more automated. Plus they no longer need to maintain their awesome Excel spreadsheet.
Before
Accountant supplied a really rather awesome Excel spreadsheet that does all the calculations necessary for me to submit the VAT return myself via HMRC's website. My account merely checks the spreadsheet for errors.
Accountant prepares all submissions for SA, Corporation Tax, etc etc. as well, presumably calculated by their own software, which presumably extracts all data from those spreadsheets plus extra information they ask me to supply.
After
Accountant wants me to spend £15pcm (£180pa) on software that captures all the above information, and also does all those calculations for them. And presents them with all the information they need in a common format which allows them to automate their tasks far better and more efficiently.
Benefit to me: None really. Maybe slightly less work for me as I can link the company bank account to the software, and also don't need to manually cut & paste the VAT fields of the spreadsheet into the VAT submission form on the HMRC website. Really not worth an extra £15pcm though.
Benefit to accountant: Does most of their calculations for them, and is a lot more automated. Plus they no longer need to maintain their awesome Excel spreadsheet.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
For my scenario..
Before
Accountant supplied a really rather awesome Excel spreadsheet that does all the calculations necessary for me to submit the VAT return myself via HMRC's website. My account merely checks the spreadsheet for errors.
Accountant prepares all submissions for SA, Corporation Tax, etc etc. as well, presumably calculated by their own software, which presumably extracts all data from those spreadsheets plus extra information they ask me to supply.
After
Accountant wants me to spend £15pcm (£180pa) on software that captures all the above information, and also does all those calculations for them. And presents them with all the information they need in a common format which allows them to automate their tasks far better and more efficiently.
Benefit to me: None really. Maybe slightly less work for me as I can link the company bank account to the software, and also don't need to manually cut & paste the VAT fields of the spreadsheet into the VAT submission form on the HMRC website. Really not worth an extra £15pcm though.
Benefit to accountant: Does most of their calculations for them, and is a lot more automated. Plus they no longer need to maintain their awesome Excel spreadsheet.
In theory the idea of bookkeeping software you would be right that all the work is done for the accountant. However almost always there will be mispostings, VAT claimed on incorrect things etc etc and therefore the accountant still has to check through the bookkeeping software. There is also the poetic licence you are paying for accountants where there is more than one right answer to a particular way of treating something. Picking the most ideal scenario for the client in that case is why good Accountants charge what they do. We wont be charging clients any more after MTD should we not be doing any extra work though I suspect a lot of clients will want us to take over to avoid submitting VAT returns incorrectly though really the task is no different.Before
Accountant supplied a really rather awesome Excel spreadsheet that does all the calculations necessary for me to submit the VAT return myself via HMRC's website. My account merely checks the spreadsheet for errors.
Accountant prepares all submissions for SA, Corporation Tax, etc etc. as well, presumably calculated by their own software, which presumably extracts all data from those spreadsheets plus extra information they ask me to supply.
After
Accountant wants me to spend £15pcm (£180pa) on software that captures all the above information, and also does all those calculations for them. And presents them with all the information they need in a common format which allows them to automate their tasks far better and more efficiently.
Benefit to me: None really. Maybe slightly less work for me as I can link the company bank account to the software, and also don't need to manually cut & paste the VAT fields of the spreadsheet into the VAT submission form on the HMRC website. Really not worth an extra £15pcm though.
Benefit to accountant: Does most of their calculations for them, and is a lot more automated. Plus they no longer need to maintain their awesome Excel spreadsheet.
The problem is every person is different and therefor so is every job so without looking in depth at everyones particular scenario its hard to say what someones best "fix" is. In your scenario Clockwork I would think the bridging software to be the best route to minimise cost to yourself and it is worth noting your frustration is shared amongst most.
Oh for sure.
To be clear - I have no problems with companies charging extra for extra services or extra value. I'm in business on my own (obviously, or I wouldn't be doing VAT returns) so I totally get that and sympathise with it.
What I object to is being forced into paying out extra money for no perceived value.
Yes, of course you could argue that the rules have changed and now I need to spend extra money in order to comply with the new rules. It's galling, and it's a bummer, but such is life. And that's probably how I will justify it in my mind when forced into it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
To be clear - I have no problems with companies charging extra for extra services or extra value. I'm in business on my own (obviously, or I wouldn't be doing VAT returns) so I totally get that and sympathise with it.
What I object to is being forced into paying out extra money for no perceived value.
Yes, of course you could argue that the rules have changed and now I need to spend extra money in order to comply with the new rules. It's galling, and it's a bummer, but such is life. And that's probably how I will justify it in my mind when forced into it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
And then she said:
98elise said:
Eric Mc said:
If a VAT return is due at the end of April 2019, then the VAT return itself must be for the three months, January, February and March 2019. That VAT return can still be submitted under the "old" system.
The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
Actually I should have been clearer. My books used to go to the accountant at the end of April (including Aprils invoices) so my return is Feb/Mar/Apr. Does that mean I need to submit the under MTD?The next VAT return will cover the quarter April, May and June 2019. As this VAT return commences on 1 April 2019, it will need to be filed under the new MTD system.
If the business' 12 month sales total stays below £85,000, it can continue to file VAT returns under the old system.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Oh for sure.
To be clear - I have no problems with companies charging extra for extra services or extra value. I'm in business on my own (obviously, or I wouldn't be doing VAT returns) so I totally get that and sympathise with it.
What I object to is being forced into paying out extra money for no perceived value.
Yes, of course you could argue that the rules have changed and now I need to spend extra money in order to comply with the new rules. It's galling, and it's a bummer, but such is life. And that's probably how I will justify it in my mind when forced into it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
The changes are the thin end of the wedge though, look at some European countries to see where this is heading.........To be clear - I have no problems with companies charging extra for extra services or extra value. I'm in business on my own (obviously, or I wouldn't be doing VAT returns) so I totally get that and sympathise with it.
What I object to is being forced into paying out extra money for no perceived value.
Yes, of course you could argue that the rules have changed and now I need to spend extra money in order to comply with the new rules. It's galling, and it's a bummer, but such is life. And that's probably how I will justify it in my mind when forced into it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Suspect that the VAT threshold will be dropped and the majority of small businesses will be on cloud software in the next decade!
Not entirely sure what the big issue is..... Using MTD is just another way of doing what you have to do anyway.
I've just registered to MTD, signed up to Xero, activated MTD and have the first return ready to go in less than a week. Xero makes everythign so much easier than paper based aswell. Might cost £22 a month but in fairness with a direct feed form my bank It gives me more than i'm paying for.
I guess if you offload everything to your accountant then it's their issue anyway as to how they deal with it.
I can see where HMRC are comming from with the Digital stuff.... once set up it's simplyfying a whole load of crap and I guess when I invite my accountant onto my Xero account he's going to have less to do. Might actually suggest he takes a drop in his invoice as the software is doing most of his work... (although i'm sure he'll still justify it :-) )
(there are other platforms such as Xero.... obviously)
I've just registered to MTD, signed up to Xero, activated MTD and have the first return ready to go in less than a week. Xero makes everythign so much easier than paper based aswell. Might cost £22 a month but in fairness with a direct feed form my bank It gives me more than i'm paying for.
I guess if you offload everything to your accountant then it's their issue anyway as to how they deal with it.
I can see where HMRC are comming from with the Digital stuff.... once set up it's simplyfying a whole load of crap and I guess when I invite my accountant onto my Xero account he's going to have less to do. Might actually suggest he takes a drop in his invoice as the software is doing most of his work... (although i'm sure he'll still justify it :-) )
(there are other platforms such as Xero.... obviously)
super7 said:
Might actually suggest he takes a drop in his invoice as the software is doing most of his work... (although i'm sure he'll still justify it :-) )
Well, that's the rub isn't it. My accountants are pushing FreeAgent and have negotiated a discount *down* to the aforementioned £15pcm for it.
Now, if they had come to me and said "We'd like you to start using FreeAgent, and we've negotiated a discount such that it is included in our existing fees" then I'd probably have been ok with it. Even if next year their fees went up.
Hell, if they'd even said "We're putting our fees up, but a subscription to FreeAgent is included in the new fees" then I'd probably have grumbled a bit, but ultimately sucked it up.
I know. Silly isn't it.
There is free bridging software available that can be used to submit under MTD.
I have used this https://vitaltax.uk/ no connection to the provider just something I found that seems to work
I have used this https://vitaltax.uk/ no connection to the provider just something I found that seems to work
Squiddly Diddly said:
Does MTD require a new user ID & password or something?
Nope..... use your govenrment gateway ID for your VAT registration. They send a couple of auth codes over the phone, take a few days, set up a new Direct Debit, Once setup you register via your MTD software...Takes a few days but you can't register for MTD between 7 days before your VAT return is due and 8 days after (or something similar). So don't leave it Tooooooo late to register.
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff