Discussion
Doofus said:
If you don't understand how I can be a 'consultant' without necessarily being a 'contractor', go and ask a grown up.
These things aren't black and white - hence all the discussion. If you're selling yourself then straightaway you can't use substitution and you're personally a party to the contract.
Doofus said:
I've been doing it for several years. I am happy, my accountants are happy, and HMRC are happy.
I'm sorry you're not, but I'm sure I'll get through it..
There's no need to worry about me - we use consultants and contractors at work and I'm always interested to know if there's an angle we're missing. Or if we're doing something that might be considered dodgy - although I'd probably prefer not to know about that.I'm sorry you're not, but I'm sure I'll get through it..
Eric Mc said:
It's lunatic to engage with another organisation - whether in a business to business arrangement or as an employee - without some form of contract in place. However, even with no written contract in place, contract law will always imply that a contract exists - so whether you think so or not, there will be a contract.
These two sentences are somewhat contradictory.I spent 10 years working for a client without any form of written agreement. I invoiced them quarterly in advance for services to be provided, and they paid quickly. Was I a lunatic or did we just have a clear understanding of what was expected of one another without feeling any necessity to produce a formal document? They were a commercial law firm in Mayfair and never once asked me for a contract.
Sheepshanks said:
Eric Mc said:
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
Well, they could make all those things conditions of the contract.Alex said:
Doofus said:
However, I've decided I'm not the manfor the job. This is because I know somebody better suited to thier needs and not, as many on here would suggest, because I am a total f
kwit.
You exercised the right of substitution. You're definitely not caught by IR35. kwit.
CaptainSlow said:
Alex said:
Doofus said:
However, I've decided I'm not the manfor the job. This is because I know somebody better suited to thier needs and not, as many on here would suggest, because I am a total fkwit.
You exercised the right of substitution. You're definitely not caught by IR35. kwit.Alex said:
CaptainSlow said:
Alex said:
Doofus said:
However, I've decided I'm not the manfor the job. This is because I know somebody better suited to thier needs and not, as many on here would suggest, because I am a total fkwit.
You exercised the right of substitution. You're definitely not caught by IR35. kwit.All the posters here stating they worked with 'no contract' if that's the case isn't a contract implied anyway by the behaviour of both parties, so though nothing written down there is in fact a contract, even if your a consultants with multiple consultants in your firm and you send 1 there still a contract between the consultancy and end client ?
"An implied contract is an agreement created by actions of the parties involved, but it is not written or spoken. An implied contract is a legal substitute for a contract that is assumed to have been drawn. In this case, there is no written record nor any actual verbal agreement "
As for accountants being happy, its not there responsibility, if they screw up HMRC come after you not them, in the eyes of HMRC accountants are just your representatives completing tasks that you have given them and approved. In my experience some accountants are useless and some know there stuff so its a punt your getting the correct advice.
[
"An implied contract is an agreement created by actions of the parties involved, but it is not written or spoken. An implied contract is a legal substitute for a contract that is assumed to have been drawn. In this case, there is no written record nor any actual verbal agreement "
As for accountants being happy, its not there responsibility, if they screw up HMRC come after you not them, in the eyes of HMRC accountants are just your representatives completing tasks that you have given them and approved. In my experience some accountants are useless and some know there stuff so its a punt your getting the correct advice.
[
Edited by PostHeads123 on Friday 22 June 12:03
Alex said:
CaptainSlow said:
But not by the courts...
Indeed. https://www.contractoruk.com/news/0013512mdcm_triu...
Financial risk, MOO and substitution all went in HMRC's favour, but a concrete worker representing himself against HMRC's 'wrongful' inside IR35 decision won for a number of reasons including not getting employee type benefits and a flat day rate being inconsistent with employment.
I found it a bit ironic that the fact somebody invoices rather than is on the payroll was that big a consideration because if it were the other way around....oh, it doesn't matter
HMRC are an odd bunch and somewhat inconsistent, I did a contract with them earlier in the year which went via two agencies and an Umbrella company with zero expenses allowable. At least 3 of that team have been contracting on day rates for over 6 years.
I have just been offered another contract with the same dept on standard day rate invoiced to my Ltd co with travel and all expenses.
I have just been offered another contract with the same dept on standard day rate invoiced to my Ltd co with travel and all expenses.
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