Is it still possible to start a side business?

[The Moose]

This thread reminds me of the tale of the fisherman...

[skinnyman]

I'm a part time advantage player in addition to my day job. I work in a group of 4, 2 of which have been full time for over a year now. In 2016 I made £35k net, in 2017 that rose to £55k. 2018 hasn't gone quite as well, but still at £20k for the year so far. And it's as time consuming or as flexible as you want it to be.

[technodup]

selmahoose said:

Whoever buys this :

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-fo...
Less than 1.5 miles from George Square (city centre).

It is, and it's completely irrelevant imo. It's basically Gorbals. Another world.

People generally use public transport to get the the town, and those thousands in Buchanan St going to Hugo Boss and Karen Millen aren't dragging their broken hoover over a mile across the river to the badlands.

It's also on a one way street just off the main road. And even the main road is one way at that point, and coming the other way you're forced left, away from the shop so basically nobody would even see it. There's a reason it's cheap. (Used to be an off licence in the 90s, we got a drink in there for our bus/train journeys to raves across the country).

If I was the hoover guy I'd be looking at someone who already has a shop or unit and has spare space. Completely informal, no commitment and opportunity for immediate opportunities though the existing client base. For him a hairdresser would be ideal, as let's be honest it's mostly women who use the hoover. Not sure the hairdresser would be totally keen on dusty old Dyson's cluttering up her salon though.

[WolfieBot]

skinnyman said:

I'm a part time advantage player in addition to my day job. I work in a group of 4, 2 of which have been full time for over a year now. In 2016 I made £35k net, in 2017 that rose to £55k. 2018 hasn't gone quite as well, but still at £20k for the year so far. And it's as time consuming or as flexible as you want it to be.

Tell us more! Always been fascinated by this as a maths geek.
Are you doing it live in casinos or online?

[Evoluzione]

selmahoose said:

Evoluzione said:

Note the complete lack of anyone in sight of the 'busy City Centre parade'. High St stuff is dead.

As sir says....

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C8ADB0/buchanan-street-i...

...dead.

Not only are you way off topic, but you've linked to the wrong street, this is it:



Estate agents laughingly describe it as "Ground Floor Retail Unit on busy City Centre parade"

[technodup]

Evoluzione said:

Not only are you way off topic, but you've linked to the wrong street, this is it:

Estate agents laughingly describe it as "Ground Floor Retail Unit on busy City Centre parade"

Given his username I'd guess he's an estate agent. Possible the estate agent.

[48k]

selmahoose said:

Whoever buys this :

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-fo...

....will be renting it for £300pcm.max.....£200 if you'd settle for 10% of cost.

Rates? zero. Small business rates relief. 100% rebate.

Theres a map on the sales page. Less than 1.5 miles from George Square (city centre). Over a million people in 25 mile radius. (the important bit for this business)

Immediate parking outside = very easy.

Across the road? Main branch and head office of biggest Asian bank (Habib)

200 metres up the road? Scotland's busiest court. (Glasgow Sheriff). Maybe Britain's busiest.

Another 200 metres away? The massive Glasgow mosque.

Anyway not a passing trade business so could be in a garage/workshop and far further out of the city centre. Want me to find one at £50-a-month?

He'd cover the overhead from the recons displayed in the window.

Edited by selmahoose on Wednesday 19th September 19:51

I don't think you've ever run a business before. Aside from the fact that the guy is in Bucks according to his profile so he's probably not likely to want to open a shop in the badlands of Glasgow, your fag packet is missing:

Start up costs like:
- legal and conveyancing for the lease agreement
- deposit / rent in advance
- signage and shop fit out
- lock changes, alarm, security set up etc

Fixed monthly overheads in addition to rent like:
- Service charge
- Utilities (Gas, Leccy, Water, Phone, Internet)
- Business Premises, Contents and Public Liability Insurance,
- Alarm/Security monitoring

Variable monthly overheads like:
- premises maintenance

Plus having a bit of cash aside for exit / end of lease (eg. legal fees, returning shop to original condition/schedule of dilapidations) etc.

And that is all assuming things like he already has the tools and equipment, can process credit/debit card payments, no breakages, equipment to replace etc. etc.

Not being rude but I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think repairing vaccuum cleaners would generate enough revenue to cover all that.

[selmahoose]

Evoluzione said:

selmahoose said:

Evoluzione said:

Note the complete lack of anyone in sight of the 'busy City Centre parade'. High St stuff is dead.

As sir says....

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C8ADB0/buchanan-street-i...

...dead.

Not only are you way off topic, but you've linked to the wrong street, this is it:







Estate agents laughingly describe it as "Ground Floor Retail Unit on busy City Centre parade"

My pic refers to the highlighted bit which says "High St stuff is dead". My pic illustrates a 'dead' High St.

Or did you really mean 'Norfolk St is dead'.

By the way, as your new found friend can confirm, whilst Google have certainly captured it at a quiet moment, Norfolk St is an extremely busy road for traffic.

And your new found friend who lives in Glasgow should also be able to explain why he thinks that this particular little shop in this particular street in this particular area wouldn't trade as well as "Ian Todd Vacuums" traded for 30 years in Albert Drive until Ian retired to spend his days in his nice house in posh Newton Mearns.

A vacuum repair shop DOESN'T NEED PASSING TRADE!!! The ONLY good reasons to have a shopfront trading location are 1) so that passersby can see that the service exists, and 2)so if he diverges into retailing recons he's got a display opportunity.

For fks sake.

Of course if you google "hoover/vacuum repairs in Glasgow" you will discover some more interesting info.

There is a Kirby specialist in Farmeloan Rd, a Dyson-only repair place on Dumbarton Rd, and a place which says he repairs all makes
(but doesnt) as part of his general domestic appliance repair business in Vine St.

And, apart from loony exploitation "Repaircare" national nonsense, that's IT!

Please note that the Kirby, Dyson and general makes repairmen have something in common. They all trade from SHOPS. In two cases, shops that aren't by any means cheap to rent. And I don't know about the Dyson chap, but the other two have been trading there for decades.

The stupidest suggestion was taking a concession in a hairdresser's. Vacuum repair/refurb is a quasi-industrial process. It's as stupid to suggest it could work in a hairdressers as to suggest the same for an engine reconditioner or a small manufacturer.

The aforementioned Ian Todd's shop was in Albert Drive. Effectively a side street in an Asian ghettoised area. One of his specialisms was total refurbishment of Hoover Juniors. Everybody from kids to binmen got a fiver a time for bringing him fked ones. His restorations were excellent. Like new. He sold them at £35 each. People like letting agents (when fully furnished letting was a 'thing') would buy them in 10's or 20's. At a fiver a piece discount. Which they'd then make a fiver a piece from by resupplying them to flats/landlords/the general public. Ian couldn't get enough of them and his clients (of which I was one) often had to be rationed.

Respect for beko's reasons why he doesn't fancy making the jump into full-time.

But zero respect for idiots who say "High St stuff is dead" or "it would be a great fit as a concession space in a hairdresser".

Personally I wish he was here and I wish he was going to do it. Because I've a VAX that needs fixed and there is NOBODY who can handle it. NOBODY. In or around Scotland's biggest city.

[selmahoose]

48k said:

I don't think you've ever run a business before. Aside from the fact that the guy is in Bucks according to his profile so he's probably not likely to want to open a shop in the badlands of Glasgow, your fag packet is missing:

Start up costs like:
- legal and conveyancing for the lease agreement
- deposit / rent in advance
- signage and shop fit out
- lock changes, alarm, security set up etc

Fixed monthly overheads in addition to rent like:
- Service charge
- Utilities (Gas, Leccy, Water, Phone, Internet)
- Business Premises, Contents and Public Liability Insurance,
- Alarm/Security monitoring

Variable monthly overheads like:
- premises maintenance

Plus having a bit of cash aside for exit / end of lease (eg. legal fees, returning shop to original condition/schedule of dilapidations) etc.

And that is all assuming things like he already has the tools and equipment, can process credit/debit card payments, no breakages, equipment to replace etc. etc.

Not being rude but I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think repairing vaccuum cleaners would generate enough revenue to cover all that.

You're right. I've never retailed myself or rented retail premises. It was all really a dream.

Like this place:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

...all a dream. Doesn't really exist. (that's a £600-a- month shop, btw)

or this place:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

...that dream's been there for about 30 years..

"Not being rude but I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think repairing vaccuum cleaners would generate enough revenue to cover all that".

Really?

[TartanPaint]

I've closely studied that stock photo of a crowded Buchanan St, and not one of those shoppers is carrying a defective vacuum cleaner.

[zedx19]

I started a little eBay/online store business years back, original importing stickers from China and flogging them on. After a few years though the market got saturated as every man and his dog just bought the same stickers and put them on eBay. So i started researching how to make my own stickers, spent about 500 quid on some equipment and had a go. Took me a few weeks to perfect making them, then a few weeks to build up a database of designs, many of which I purchased licensed clipart and turned into stickers. Been making my own stickers now for about 4 years I think, sell the odd 1 or 2 China one from old stock still but 99% sales are my own made stickers. Currently turns over 20k ish with healthy margins, growing slowly year on year as I continually add new designs. Big big sellers are high ticket wall stickers for nurseries which sell for £15-£20, which I've focused on building up various designs on. Benefit of making your own, despite clipart images being easy to find, is you have to have the equipment and knowledge which puts off a lot of people who just want to buy and sell stuff. Also means I can charge a premium if no-one else is doing a specific design. Think I've got over 400 individual designs for sale now, all ready to print and cut as soon as an order lands.

So yes, still possible to start a side business imo. My side business is all legit, I pay tax, I own licenses to clipart images used. The idea for me came when our first was born and the wife wanted some nursery wall stickers, I can sell them I thought! If I had the time I could turn it into a much much healthier business but I work 8-5 (ish) in a senior management role so cannot devote much time to new designs.

[selmahoose]

TartanPaint said:

I've closely studied that stock photo of a crowded Buchanan St, and not one of those shoppers is carrying a defective vacuum cleaner.

Well you wouldn't, would you? You'd take it to the repair place in your car. Or taxi. When did you last see anyone ever carrying a defective vacuum cleaner? Not exactly commonplace is it?

(o and yes I have no doubt that some people at some time have manually carried a vacuum to a repair shop that's nearby)

[48k]

selmahoose said:

48k said:

I don't think you've ever run a business before. Aside from the fact that the guy is in Bucks according to his profile so he's probably not likely to want to open a shop in the badlands of Glasgow, your fag packet is missing:

Start up costs like:
- legal and conveyancing for the lease agreement
- deposit / rent in advance
- signage and shop fit out
- lock changes, alarm, security set up etc

Fixed monthly overheads in addition to rent like:
- Service charge
- Utilities (Gas, Leccy, Water, Phone, Internet)
- Business Premises, Contents and Public Liability Insurance,
- Alarm/Security monitoring

Variable monthly overheads like:
- premises maintenance

Plus having a bit of cash aside for exit / end of lease (eg. legal fees, returning shop to original condition/schedule of dilapidations) etc.

And that is all assuming things like he already has the tools and equipment, can process credit/debit card payments, no breakages, equipment to replace etc. etc.

Not being rude but I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think repairing vaccuum cleaners would generate enough revenue to cover all that.

You're right. I've never retailed myself or rented retail premises. It was all really a dream.

Like this place:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

...all a dream. Doesn't really exist. (that's a £600-a- month shop, btw)

or this place:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

...that dream's been there for about 30 years..

"Not being rude but I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think repairing vaccuum cleaners would generate enough revenue to cover all that".

Really?

The only dream here is you thinking the guy running his business in Bucks can open a shop in Glasgow!!

He's even kindly provided two examples of business local to him that couldn't make the numbers stack up.

And look at your examples - the first one is a Dyson retailer that sells brand new machines as well as doing spares and repairs. The second one is advertising GHD repairs and Cooker repairs not just Vaccuum cleaners. So maybe - just maybe - even in a cheap area there is not enough revenue generated by repairing vaccuum cleaners alone. Who knew?

[selmahoose]

48k said:

The only dream here is you thinking the guy running his business in Bucks can open a shop in Glasgow!!

He's even kindly provided two examples of business local to him that couldn't make the numbers stack up.

And look at your examples - the first one is a Dyson retailer that sells brand new machines as well as doing spares and repairs. The second one is advertising GHD repairs and Cooker repairs not just Vaccuum cleaners. So maybe - just maybe - even in a cheap area there is not enough revenue generated by repairing vaccuum cleaners alone. Who knew?

We thought we ran a hoover repair/spares shop.....

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

.....until a bloke on the internet told us it was all a dream!

Us too....

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

....all a dream I tell you!

And us.....

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0...

fk me....we're all over the country! Some of us have even branched into grey market sales too!!!

Who'd have thought it!!

Edited by selmahoose on Thursday 20th September 15:51

[48k]

[technodup]

selmahoose said:

The stupidest suggestion was taking a concession in a hairdresser's.

It wasn't a totally serious suggestion. As I pretty much suggested. It was the sharing of overhead/lack of ties I was suggesting.

And as for comparing Buchanan St (the most expensive retail space outside London) as typical of a generic High St...

ETA I've lived in Pollokshields 10+ years and never heard of a hoover shop in Albert Dr. Not saying it was never there, but here's the thing...

You make a point about some of those shops having been there decades, and I'd agree. But I've dealt with many similar businesses and often the only reason they remain in place is that they own the premises and have done for years. Plus of course simply being there is no guarantee of actually making any money..

You give an example of an old guy who'd been there 30 years as a sign it will work. Started in a different era and had the benefit of those 30 years of trading, word of mouth etc. Beko doesn't have that, and if he doesn't have a shopfront for awareness as much as passing trade he needs to advertise. Which is another expense. How many months worth of outgoing does the guy need stuck by to get through the first year?

So I come back to my shared space idea. A business with spare space, a client base to promote to, to generate word of mouth from, with minimal financial commitment...

Or an indoor market type place, for much the same reasons.

Edited by technodup on Thursday 20th September 18:18

[48k]

marked1 said:

You ever thought about buying a van and doing call outs. You coud set up a little workstation and fix the vaccumes in the back.....

This is a much better option than considering a shop IMO. Assuming at least some repairs are do-able in the back of a van it gives you a great USP - you can be on site with the customer the same day their vaccuum goes kaput, they don't have to worry about getting it to a shop, their house doesn't stay dirty too long, you don't have to deal with customers coming in for a chat, shop overheads etc. etc. Worse case scenario is you can do a collect and return service for repairs you can't do on site.

[skinnyman]

WolfieBot said:

Tell us more! Always been fascinated by this as a maths geek.
Are you doing it live in casinos or online?

Put simply, advantage playing is just achieving a price that is better than the fair market price. This applies to getting 11/10 on a coin toss, as much as it does to buying something for £80 when everywhere else in the world is selling it for £100, its just about getting better value than the true price/cost of something.

My groups play is all online, or in betting shops. However, there is another group of 4 thats works in physical casinos as well as online, they've amassed £1.2m between them in the last 12mths. Due to day job, wife, kids etc, disappearing off for a few weeks at a time to sit in a casino isn't feasible for myself or the others in my group.

[selmahoose]

48k said:

marked1 said:

You ever thought about buying a van and doing call outs. You could set up a little workstation and fix the vacuums in the back.....

This is a much better option than considering a shop IMO. Assuming at least some repairs are do-able in the back of a van it gives you a great USP - you can be on site with the customer the same day their vacuum goes kaput, they don't have to worry about getting it to a shop; their house doesn't stay dirty too long; you don't have to deal with customers coming in for a chat; shop overheads etc. etc. Worst case scenario is you can do a collect and return service for repairs you can't do on site.

Of course in the van you wouldn't have any way to create the other multiple complementary income streams that would hugely add to your day one profitability.
Nowhere to display or offer spares and parts to the DIY crowd.
Nowhere to display all the recons and refurbs you could do and sell or the grey market new stuff you could make an SOR deal on with the right trader (who might even be happy to use your shop as his storage point).
No linkup with the cooker/washer/GHD repair guy who'd give you a kickback on every job for just adding him in your window signage. No charging for a tiny concession space for a key cutter (or even adding that noble art to your repertoire).
And so many other things trading out the back of a van limits you to.

Just you, and the van, going hither and thither and the endless traffic holdups in all kinds of weather. And the enormous costs of a chunky size van/diesel/insurances/maintenance/security/etc etc that hugely overrun the costs of a small shop in a modest area.....

....its a crazy crazy option. And just inhibits the growth speed and potential like the crazy people who want to limit what they do so that they'll pay less tax.

The thing is anyway beko you don't have the confidence that going for it will bring in enough to feed the family. So come on......what's the obvious solution? It's not to become a mobile repair service. Think about it and all the limitations that would bring. Oh dear. Ok.

To get the confidence get round all the domestic appliance sales and service places in your area and beyond esp. the places that deal with recons and 2nd user etc. Persuade them to put YOUR sign in THEIR windows for a cut of every job they get you. Give them your refurbs on SOR offering a margin on the sales they get. Contact other repair people if you can and offer to pick up their overspill. Start getting your name out as the go-to guy for the repairs and refurbs. And lots of other things too. And as it builds you'll get to the point where you are making more than the day job is bringing and you can no longer deny that it's viable.

And then one day announce to one and all that you've finally decided to open your own premises but that you'll be happy to continue what you've built up with them.....because funnily enough you will already almost be at the point where it's time to start working ON the business rather than IN the business.....but that's another chapter for another day.

[marked1]

zedx19 said:

I started a little eBay/online store business years back, original importing stickers from China and flogging them on. After a few years though the market got saturated as every man and his dog just bought the same stickers and put them on eBay. So i started researching how to make my own stickers, spent about 500 quid on some equipment and had a go. Took me a few weeks to perfect making them, then a few weeks to build up a database of designs, many of which I purchased licensed clipart and turned into stickers. Been making my own stickers now for about 4 years I think, sell the odd 1 or 2 China one from old stock still but 99% sales are my own made stickers. Currently turns over 20k ish with healthy margins, growing slowly year on year as I continually add new designs. Big big sellers are high ticket wall stickers for nurseries which sell for £15-£20, which I've focused on building up various designs on. Benefit of making your own, despite clipart images being easy to find, is you have to have the equipment and knowledge which puts off a lot of people who just want to buy and sell stuff. Also means I can charge a premium if no-one else is doing a specific design. Think I've got over 400 individual designs for sale now, all ready to print and cut as soon as an order lands.

So yes, still possible to start a side business imo. My side business is all legit, I pay tax, I own licenses to clipart images used. The idea for me came when our first was born and the wife wanted some nursery wall stickers, I can sell them I thought! If I had the time I could turn it into a much much healthier business but I work 8-5 (ish) in a senior management role so cannot devote much time to new designs.

I had a mate who did this in uni but in the end said it wasn't worth it. I think he only had a vinyl cutter though and was ripping off BBS stickers. Are Mose of your stickers automotive, comical or is it more so professional ones i.e health and safety etc.