Low start up business ideas
Discussion
So, I finally have news.
I've been gradually finding my niche over the months and have worked on some interesting cars and completed some interesting projects. At the moment I'm building a mercedes sprinter camper conversion, in April I turbocharged a Mercedes 190e for a customer. You can follow it all
https://www.instagram.com/aw_automotive_engineer/
and
https://www.facebook.com/AlexWheatleyAutomotiveEng...
It has been bloody cold and wet though, there have been multiple times I've questioned my sanity choosing this as a startup but i've survived the winter.
The big news is that I've just agreed on some premises! All being well I'll be in by the end of the month, with a big of an open morning/grand opening at the end of July.
Photo's once I have the keys.
The van has served me very well and I've only had to invest in a few odds and sods tool's wise, nothing too substantial. It was a very cheap start up, but I'm increasingly finding jobs taking a lot longer than they could with a ramp/workshop and (more importantly) a lot harder physically. Hence the unit.
I've been gradually finding my niche over the months and have worked on some interesting cars and completed some interesting projects. At the moment I'm building a mercedes sprinter camper conversion, in April I turbocharged a Mercedes 190e for a customer. You can follow it all
https://www.instagram.com/aw_automotive_engineer/
and
https://www.facebook.com/AlexWheatleyAutomotiveEng...
It has been bloody cold and wet though, there have been multiple times I've questioned my sanity choosing this as a startup but i've survived the winter.
The big news is that I've just agreed on some premises! All being well I'll be in by the end of the month, with a big of an open morning/grand opening at the end of July.
Photo's once I have the keys.
The van has served me very well and I've only had to invest in a few odds and sods tool's wise, nothing too substantial. It was a very cheap start up, but I'm increasingly finding jobs taking a lot longer than they could with a ramp/workshop and (more importantly) a lot harder physically. Hence the unit.
So, the solicitors took a lot longer than promised to sort out the lease on the premises.
But i'm in! Ramp went in this week...
The van and my BMW e39 touring will be up for sale shortly, to be replaced with something more interesting.
With the vast uplift in overheads (5k on insurance alone!) and additional scope for work, I need to specialise for marketing and tooling purposes but it's proving tricky.
Aside from (genuine, product development) automotive engineering experience my experience lies with TVR's mostly and German brands. Although I don't particularly want to start a TVR-only specialist in Sheffield, and I don't want to target 'ordinary' stuff too much.
So for now I've settled on 'sports and performance' cars - with investment in marketing and equipment being directed towards Porsche. I've worked on a few 997's now and got most of the way to putting an audi v8 into a 986 porsche boxster so feel very familiar with the cars (986/7 & 996/7). I also have access to a 4 poster laser alignment rig.
But...we shall see what happens, I've a long hard road ahead of me - I'll keep you updated when I settle on an open morning date.
Ps. I've been working on some cool stuff...
Also, I've just realised - yesterday was a year since the original post!
But i'm in! Ramp went in this week...
The van and my BMW e39 touring will be up for sale shortly, to be replaced with something more interesting.
With the vast uplift in overheads (5k on insurance alone!) and additional scope for work, I need to specialise for marketing and tooling purposes but it's proving tricky.
Aside from (genuine, product development) automotive engineering experience my experience lies with TVR's mostly and German brands. Although I don't particularly want to start a TVR-only specialist in Sheffield, and I don't want to target 'ordinary' stuff too much.
So for now I've settled on 'sports and performance' cars - with investment in marketing and equipment being directed towards Porsche. I've worked on a few 997's now and got most of the way to putting an audi v8 into a 986 porsche boxster so feel very familiar with the cars (986/7 & 996/7). I also have access to a 4 poster laser alignment rig.
But...we shall see what happens, I've a long hard road ahead of me - I'll keep you updated when I settle on an open morning date.
Ps. I've been working on some cool stuff...
Edited by crosseyedlion on Thursday 25th July 12:07
Also, I've just realised - yesterday was a year since the original post!
Edited by crosseyedlion on Thursday 25th July 12:09
Little update
Voicey's advice was superb (as well as the lengthy email he sent me) - have taken lots on board and have managed to save 2k on my insurance bill for better cover! Lots of other things I hadn't quite considered.
The workshop is now booked up 5 1/2 weeks ahead, so that's August sorted! Thanks mostly to offering a very good deal on TVR chassis outrigger replacements (something I can do easily with a low material cost) and marketing directly to my target demographics via Facebook. If I target correctly £50 of advertising on Facebook will gain me at least 1 decent booking/new customer.
The TVR chassis promotion cost me £60 and has generated around £15k of work with whats already booked in (not all of it TVR chassis...but it got customers attention) - aside from that particular promotion i'm strictly pricing in line with my competition, no less. No one wins in a race to the bottom. I generally find that once I've talked to a prospective customer or met them, they seem to be fine with any pricing and the fact the business is so new.
Will be increasingly steering it away from 'normal' stuff, towards TVR then Porsche. Then some fancier/bigger premises in the countryside in a few years.... A boy can dream...
Voicey's advice was superb (as well as the lengthy email he sent me) - have taken lots on board and have managed to save 2k on my insurance bill for better cover! Lots of other things I hadn't quite considered.
The workshop is now booked up 5 1/2 weeks ahead, so that's August sorted! Thanks mostly to offering a very good deal on TVR chassis outrigger replacements (something I can do easily with a low material cost) and marketing directly to my target demographics via Facebook. If I target correctly £50 of advertising on Facebook will gain me at least 1 decent booking/new customer.
The TVR chassis promotion cost me £60 and has generated around £15k of work with whats already booked in (not all of it TVR chassis...but it got customers attention) - aside from that particular promotion i'm strictly pricing in line with my competition, no less. No one wins in a race to the bottom. I generally find that once I've talked to a prospective customer or met them, they seem to be fine with any pricing and the fact the business is so new.
Will be increasingly steering it away from 'normal' stuff, towards TVR then Porsche. Then some fancier/bigger premises in the countryside in a few years.... A boy can dream...
Kingdom35 said:
Much the same here. I already have a side line business but rely heavily on the bay, which I cant stand.
Websites however I have found to be very very hard to gain traction with traffic.
I had thought about a window cleaning business, low costs outlay. But I haven't looked into competition or pricing just yet.
Fast approaching 40 and bored of the 9-5 corporate BS daily.
So watching this thread with interest and renewed enthusiasm
Window cleaning seems tricky, low start up yes. But incredibly territorial. Websites however I have found to be very very hard to gain traction with traffic.
I had thought about a window cleaning business, low costs outlay. But I haven't looked into competition or pricing just yet.
Fast approaching 40 and bored of the 9-5 corporate BS daily.
So watching this thread with interest and renewed enthusiasm
So much so that I've heard that buying/selling window cleaning rounds isn't that uncommon. Kind of frustrating that the public become a product to trade.
PistonBroker said:
Blimey! Renewed a client's £4,500 Motor Trade policy yesterday and they're in a much bigger space with, judging by that pic, a lot more crammed in.
I'll remember this when my clients inevitably moan!
Best of luck with the new place.
I've managed to get this down to 2.9k thanks to the advice of another PH'er - for much better cover. There is now no limit to the value of vehicle I can drive fully comp (ANY vehicle, standard, modified, classic, supercar etc... although only covered to 2mil. of damage to the vehicle) and 100k limit on vehicles in storage (realistically I can only store 5 vehicles anyway). I'll remember this when my clients inevitably moan!
Best of luck with the new place.
Whatever the cost, being under insured isnt a way to run a business, so I don't mind.
Glasgowrob said:
great to see you've got premises sorted out 
and fully booked for the next 5 1/2 weeks is great going, especially if its the stuff you want to be doing as well.
any scope for getting a 4 post in there as well or too tight for space?
It's a little tight for space, the 2 poster I got was very wide. I'm sure a 4 poster would fit but it would become another obstacle when moving cars around. Because of that I think I'll get a scissor lift.and fully booked for the next 5 1/2 weeks is great going, especially if its the stuff you want to be doing as well.
any scope for getting a 4 post in there as well or too tight for space?
I'm already planning to move to somewhere bigger in 2020/21 - luckily my landlord has some much bigger units and hasn't had an issue relinquishing tenants of their lease when they want to upgrade.
Badda said:
Excellent thread.
To the OP, I'd be cautious targeting Porsche owners as your end game. Unless I've missed something, you're not a previous Porsche mechanic and have only worked on a couple of cars - owners tend to like a little more provenance than that and you'd probably need a wealth of experience of all the models, over the last 30 years, to be able to truly specialise.
I have basically rebuilt a 986, including re-engineering many aspects. I have worked on multiple 997. I have worked on sports cars extensively including from the position of engineer developing them. I'm very comfortable with water cooled Porsches and my level of knowledge already. To the OP, I'd be cautious targeting Porsche owners as your end game. Unless I've missed something, you're not a previous Porsche mechanic and have only worked on a couple of cars - owners tend to like a little more provenance than that and you'd probably need a wealth of experience of all the models, over the last 30 years, to be able to truly specialise.
I apply an engineering (rather than technician) mindset to my work. This is one of my points of difference and a certain type of customer appreciates that.
I have a customer who swore by a very well known specialist down south. After letting me spend a little time on the car they now won't take it anywhere else.
With the greatest of respect - If anyone takes issue with that, they can go elsewhere - it's their loss.
I'm certainly not going to target the air cooled market.
Like I said before I'm targeting TVR and Porsche owners for now...and I'm not going to be a one man band forever.
It's going to likely be a gradual take up of Porsche owners for the reason you mentioned.
Edited by crosseyedlion on Friday 2nd August 18:51
Sorry things have got silly busy lately! First day off in a month tomorrow.
It's going well though. Booked until November -
although putting a second ramp in and building an office next month. I'll put more interesting photos up for that build.
Said goodbye to the van today, I've grown attached to it but it's totally redundant. Was an excellent buy for the next owner at £860. Vastly helps my cashflow too!
Also. I've found someone to help part time (ex-porsche) so I don't have to turn away some of the more urgent work customers are approaching with.
Regarding trying a business part time first. I may be wrong. And I appreciate the risks where small for me, but if you're going to start a business. Do it full time from the start.
Yes set it up whilst at work, but once it's trading you should be full time. You won't have the opportunity to give it it's best shot, so if it fails you'll always wonder "what if". Also you'll have constant issues with the business having to take a back seat and being unable to make the most of sales opportunities, networking and time that business hours operate in conventionally. I for one wouldn't be keen on hiring a business that seems to be 'dabbling'.
Just do it. Put your heart and soul into it. If you're going to fail, fail fast, learn and move on. If it works out you'll never look back.
It's going well though. Booked until November -
although putting a second ramp in and building an office next month. I'll put more interesting photos up for that build.
Said goodbye to the van today, I've grown attached to it but it's totally redundant. Was an excellent buy for the next owner at £860. Vastly helps my cashflow too!
Also. I've found someone to help part time (ex-porsche) so I don't have to turn away some of the more urgent work customers are approaching with.
Regarding trying a business part time first. I may be wrong. And I appreciate the risks where small for me, but if you're going to start a business. Do it full time from the start.
Yes set it up whilst at work, but once it's trading you should be full time. You won't have the opportunity to give it it's best shot, so if it fails you'll always wonder "what if". Also you'll have constant issues with the business having to take a back seat and being unable to make the most of sales opportunities, networking and time that business hours operate in conventionally. I for one wouldn't be keen on hiring a business that seems to be 'dabbling'.
Just do it. Put your heart and soul into it. If you're going to fail, fail fast, learn and move on. If it works out you'll never look back.
deebs said:
Brilliant thread and contributions. Really inspiring. I'm thinking of taking the plunge to go for it myself and need a small very cheap van, something similar to the OPs. Any recommendations or ones to avoid at the up to 1-1.5k mark? What's high mileage or considered old in this kind vehicle?
Size wise I'm after ford transit connect swb/VW caddy /vauxhall combo, not a full transit
1. Just do it. Size wise I'm after ford transit connect swb/VW caddy /vauxhall combo, not a full transit
2. Do not underestimate the importance of cashflow. Money in the bank/access to credit is critical. This is separate to your living costs, just to operate (especially in automotive) Do not spend it all starting up.
3. Transit connects are a bargain and very very cheap, nice enough to use every day. Go for a 2006-2007 - which means the mild facelift, more refined tdci engine but before they went to the troublesome 'wet belt'. Mine was on 140k and gave very little bother, wore it's mile well and parts where cheap.
4. Get good at social media, photography (it's worth investing in a cheap DSLR camera) and one of the website builders such as Wix. Customers find you via social media and word of mouth, but then check your website - so it doesn't need a lot of content, just to convey the right image.
5. Avoid investing in anything apart from the above and absolutely essential tools for the job. Plan ahead for each job and buy tools as you need them. Remember what I said about keeping the money in the bank....you'll need it!
6. Full time from day one. Give it the best chance of success, if it's going to fail there needs to be no 'what if's'. If you fail. Fail fast. Learn, regroup and try again when you're back on your feet. Give yourself a time limit to decide go/no-go (6 months was mine).
7. Have your target customer very very well defined and tailor everything you do and how you market to that. You can change this along the way if you find the direction changing.
9. Stay as small as possible for as long as you can bare. Then wait a little longer. It's better to be busy and small than hunting for work and worried about cashflow. It also gives you the time to curate your customers to the type of people you want to work with.
10. Do it.
If anyone wants something with 0 skill thats scalable and simple. It's scrap metal collecting and waste clearance. The licence is about £200 iirc.
You can employ anyone to grow it.
Customer expectations are low so it's simple to surpass them.
It's proving useful having a lwb sprinter at the moment, I'm half tempted to keep hold of it and set up another business doing just that.
You can employ anyone to grow it.
Customer expectations are low so it's simple to surpass them.
It's proving useful having a lwb sprinter at the moment, I'm half tempted to keep hold of it and set up another business doing just that.
Coleman262 said:
Where in the south east are you heading? I’m in East Sussex and industrial stuff is big ££ or anything that isn’t doesn’t want anything to do with the motor trade, struggling to find anything for myself
Oxfordshire, Berkshire, Surrey, Sussex. Big money and availability is a nightmare. Not so worried about the additional cost as I know I can get the work in and 75% of my customers travel up from around the m25.
No premesis found as of yet.
But back to work for me. Time to get the workshop in order, make some efficiency improvements and keep making big steps towards a related but much more challenging startup in 2020!
Don't worry, this business isn't getting closed. I'll still need it to put food on the table for a good while yet!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone!
(and if just do it if you're thinking of going self employed. I'm happy to advise in private if anyone needs it)
But back to work for me. Time to get the workshop in order, make some efficiency improvements and keep making big steps towards a related but much more challenging startup in 2020!
Don't worry, this business isn't getting closed. I'll still need it to put food on the table for a good while yet!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone!
(and if just do it if you're thinking of going self employed. I'm happy to advise in private if anyone needs it)
dsgrnmcm said:
Brilliant thread!
Any further updates OP, did you complete the move?
Thanks! I've been waiting to see what happens to give you an update. However in summary, I found somewhere ideal near Horsham, got to the point of signing the lease - but backed out. We have bought a house in Surrey and are half moved in now, I have to finish up in Sheffield (probably about a months more work) but I still can't wait for the move. Any further updates OP, did you complete the move?
The last 6 months have been a nightmare and the hardest I've ever had to work, just to keep my head above water (including my dog nearly dying, me narrowly avoiding hospital due to covid).
Here's why...(i've tried to organise it as there are a lot of factors)
Issues with the present setup:
Since taking on the workshop, I have been almost 100% doing body off chassis rebuilds on TVRs.
Whilst I love the cars this was never the intention. Its near impossible to find staff to grow the business and TVR's are an extremely difficult business proposition - the number of random difficulties in disassembly/assembly or faults that have no relation to the work carried out is always difficult to manage. Keeping vehicles to schedule is a nightmare and tons of hours go into them that you simply cant bill for.
I've always worked on the mantra 'choose your customers, not your business' - due to the roaring success of the TVR work I was quickly swamped. TVR owners are a broad church. Most of them are really very decent and nice, but there are a tiny minority that you could never imagine driving anything else. There are VERY few of these, but its a very close nit community and they all talk to each other.
I made the mistake on unwittingly taking on one of these customers who found a long list of issues after delivery, some simply fabricated. Smelling foul play I contacted businesses they previously had used, none of them would deal with them again. So I suggested an independent inspection, and they rejected this (twice).
Immediately a number of bookings vaporised. He has since contacted other customers and its generally made the last few months incredibly stressful (or added to it). It seems to be getting worse, as he's now telling outright lies about me on PH - which I can prove are false. However he's been clever in not naming me directly, the community know who did the work. Genuinely a factor in me throwing in the towel with the TVR community - it only takes 1 or 2 weirdos to have a huge effect on your business. Its not a market I want to be in any more. Lifes too short.
So the business needed to change:
I was quite happy with changing the business, and even had around 6 months of bookings in for when I moved to surrey this month (was supposed to) - however, the only suitable workshops where hard to find and an uplift of outgoings to £3-4k a month, this is before paying myself. Going into a period of immense uncertainty.
The bounce back loan scheme seemed ideal for my situation, as turnover is high and the costs of moving would be covered. However, I bank with Tide. Don't bank with Tide. They got approved for the scheme but then didn't offer any BBL's. The doors pretty much shut for all the other banks immediately. As such I never got one. I had managed to save up some funds and could just about do it.
A simpler life:
Working 7 days a week until 12pm (sometimes) isn't really a good long term situation. I want to go back to a low overhead business without so many unknowns and a larger market. I went self employed for more freedom in my time to work on personal projects, the focus has to be on them now (some REAL automotive engineering projects).
In short, going into a massive period of uncertainty whilst having to slightly reinvent the business and pedal significantly harder (4k a month going out for a 10 year lease!) just didn't make sense.
So i'm going to enjoy the security of my savings in the bank, my new home and start a new simpler business - maybe I should reread this thread from the beginning. I'm still going to be involved with cars though and there are some interesting things in the works.
I basically just need a few weeks off at home.
I'm very excited and optimistic for the future, lets see what happens....
Edited by crosseyedlion on Tuesday 25th August 20:35
Gallons Per Mile said:
Shocking behaviour from a certain TVR owner by the sounds of things. 
I'd be furious about that.
Good luck for the future!
There isn't a huge amount I can do unfortunately, as although he made it very clear where he was getting the work done at the time, he hasn't mentioned me or my business since, just 'the restorer' - being a prolific poster on here, he seems to see that as licence to make up or bend the truth to suit his agenda. He does this as he knows if he mentioned me directly, being untrue (I have evidence) he would be liable. I'd be furious about that. Good luck for the future!
But, oh well - life goes on. Theres no point being angry about it for too long. I'm a great believer in karma.
This workshop had provided an income and I've learnt even more to carry forward into whatever it evolves into. I'll keep you all informed.
I'm not actually *that* bothered now. I'm certainly not interested in pursuing legal action, lifes too short. Although if he names me directly I'll absolutely pursue it as there would be no doubt.
I'm also not keen on getting posts removed, enough people have read them and knowing him he'll keep doing it online or in person (he has to other companies). If they're taken down I'll have no opportunity to reply should I absolutely have to and it looks like I have something to hide.
I'd rather just move on tbh. It's only a part of the reason for a change in direction. Not him personally, but the community. I was talking to a parts supplier a couple of months ago and they said they'd lost 7 tvr specialists in the last few years. As much as I adore the cars, and (I believe) do an excellent job. They're not an ideal business proposition
I'm also not keen on getting posts removed, enough people have read them and knowing him he'll keep doing it online or in person (he has to other companies). If they're taken down I'll have no opportunity to reply should I absolutely have to and it looks like I have something to hide.
I'd rather just move on tbh. It's only a part of the reason for a change in direction. Not him personally, but the community. I was talking to a parts supplier a couple of months ago and they said they'd lost 7 tvr specialists in the last few years. As much as I adore the cars, and (I believe) do an excellent job. They're not an ideal business proposition
n3il123 said:
TBH it didn't take a lot to work out who it was and the guy comes across as a prize 
.
Thanks, it was the realisation that whatever course of action I took it would lead to the same outcome that really helped me relax about all this. (Going from his treatment of other businesses, after speaking to them)..I should have trusted my gut instinct from the first phone call booking it in. But I was hungry for the work.
Always trust your gut, even over your brain (lesson learnt).
It was a useful experience in customer relations.
Moving on.
I need a business I can do 2/3 days a week whilst I play with cars the rest of the time. I already have a lwb sprinter.
Considering some sort of posh courier (being relatively well spoken has been the most valuable qualification I've ever had in life), waste/garden clearance or getting set up to do covered vehicle transportation.
I'm doing my b+e licence soon and have a v10 touareg if I want it - I'd have to jump through some hoops for an operator's licence though.
Short term the budget is about 10k, keeping aside a cash buffer. As said before, Needs to bring in a minimum of £100 a day, ideally £200. My outgoings are small, and my real focus is on some other vehicle projects the rest of the week.
Any other ideas?
n3il123 said:
Something like moving nice cars around? There is a guy that Shmee uses to cart his cars around has a big pickup and a covered trailer?
I'm in a similar position, looking for something to keep some cash coming in until the IT market sorts itself out (or hopefully as a full time replacement).
That's my preference, although any 4x4 or pickup over 2040kg empty isn't classed as a dual purpose vehicle technically (lots operate illegally). And I don't fancy spending 8 hours a day in some lightweight pickup pulling 3.5t of trailer. So it means I need an operator's licence.I'm in a similar position, looking for something to keep some cash coming in until the IT market sorts itself out (or hopefully as a full time replacement).
Which itself has some annoying barriers to get. So I'm not diving into it yet.
It turns out you can earn almost as much driving a sprinter around, if you have the right sort of work. No hoops to jump through...
My knowledge and experience is mostly in automotive, however the fun bit isn't having a business with cars, its having a business (for me) - I'm getting my car fix elsewhere anyway.
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