Low start up business ideas
Discussion
jep said:
Are you sure you need an O-licence for this? I was under the impression that a RangeRover/Discovery/Land Cruiser etc was absolutely not considered a DPV and even though the GTM was over 3.5T an O-licence was not needed. I believe you do need a tacho though.
There is a lot of confusing info from the Dvsa, to the letter of the law it does as the unladen weight is over 2040kg. I'm awaiting clarification from them but I've been waiting a while. Little update guys.
Well. What a year.
I have moved to Surrey but haven't taken on another unit just yet. Along with working on the new house I am working part time on a fleet of 80s and 90s mercedes - which covers my outgoings and should keep me going through till spring.
I still need to figure out a long term plan, You could say im back to square one. Although I'm more experienced now and enjoying the reduction in stress for the time being. In addition to Covid related business challenges, a motorcycle t-boned me at a fair pace whilst parking (all parties agree not my fault) and I've had a bad shoulder and more significantly quite severe tinitus ever since (a month ago now) - leading to being unable to sleep and headaches. All this whilst trying to wrap things up in the old unit (400 mile round trip 2/3 times a week). Oh I also nearly cut my thumb off dismantling my old office, 2 weeks on I've just about got proper use of it back.
I can't really complain, I have most of my health, a lovely home, a nice enough car, a supportive partner and an amazing dog. I'll adapt and figure things out. I've also managed to recoup almost all my investment into the property and instantly gained another tenant to take over my lease - so the risk hasn't really bitten me, thankfully.
I haven't completely stopped but things are in a state of flux.
With all this in mind and the new 2020 business environment...any thoughts as to start up opportunities?
Locked up for the last time last night...
Well. What a year.
I have moved to Surrey but haven't taken on another unit just yet. Along with working on the new house I am working part time on a fleet of 80s and 90s mercedes - which covers my outgoings and should keep me going through till spring.
I still need to figure out a long term plan, You could say im back to square one. Although I'm more experienced now and enjoying the reduction in stress for the time being. In addition to Covid related business challenges, a motorcycle t-boned me at a fair pace whilst parking (all parties agree not my fault) and I've had a bad shoulder and more significantly quite severe tinitus ever since (a month ago now) - leading to being unable to sleep and headaches. All this whilst trying to wrap things up in the old unit (400 mile round trip 2/3 times a week). Oh I also nearly cut my thumb off dismantling my old office, 2 weeks on I've just about got proper use of it back.
I can't really complain, I have most of my health, a lovely home, a nice enough car, a supportive partner and an amazing dog. I'll adapt and figure things out. I've also managed to recoup almost all my investment into the property and instantly gained another tenant to take over my lease - so the risk hasn't really bitten me, thankfully.
I haven't completely stopped but things are in a state of flux.
With all this in mind and the new 2020 business environment...any thoughts as to start up opportunities?
Locked up for the last time last night...
bobbysmithy said:
crosseyedlion said:
If anyone wants something with 0 skill thats scalable and simple. It's scrap metal collecting and waste clearance. The licence is about £200 iirc.
You can employ anyone to grow it.
Customer expectations are low so it's simple to surpass them.
It's proving useful having a lwb sprinter at the moment, I'm half tempted to keep hold of it and set up another business doing just that.
Do you still think this is a good scalable simple business now?You can employ anyone to grow it.
Customer expectations are low so it's simple to surpass them.
It's proving useful having a lwb sprinter at the moment, I'm half tempted to keep hold of it and set up another business doing just that.
Just read through all of the pages. Well done to you and best of luck. I am sure it will work for you, keep going.
Edited by bobbysmithy on Saturday 21st November 20:11
I'm shying away for the moment due to trying to find a less physical option.
Presently re-reading this trying to talk me out of looking for a new unit down in Surrey - I still get enquiries, miss the cars and miss being self employed (I have a very comfortable, decent job in Data/Project Management now - And I'm good at it...I think)
Wonder if I'm just being misty eyed/rose tinted glasses...but there's so much of that life I miss. I also thought it was physically ruining me, but it turns out I have some sort of syndrome which means I have more pain (If I don't exercise enough) being desk based.
I've pursued Data and AI since (Including studying at Oxford...not a full degree though) worked in it ever since - and would like to offer training to small/medium businesses- It feels like where the money is flowing, and its interesting to me. But ultimately messing with cars is my happy place. Any Advice?
Wonder if I'm just being misty eyed/rose tinted glasses...but there's so much of that life I miss. I also thought it was physically ruining me, but it turns out I have some sort of syndrome which means I have more pain (If I don't exercise enough) being desk based.
I've pursued Data and AI since (Including studying at Oxford...not a full degree though) worked in it ever since - and would like to offer training to small/medium businesses- It feels like where the money is flowing, and its interesting to me. But ultimately messing with cars is my happy place. Any Advice?
crosseyedlion said:
Thanks! I've been waiting to see what happens to give you an update. However in summary, I found somewhere ideal near Horsham, got to the point of signing the lease - but backed out. We have bought a house in Surrey and are half moved in now, I have to finish up in Sheffield (probably about a months more work) but I still can't wait for the move.
The last 6 months have been a nightmare and the hardest I've ever had to work, just to keep my head above water (including my dog nearly dying, me narrowly avoiding hospital due to covid).
Here's why...(i've tried to organise it as there are a lot of factors)
Issues with the present setup:
Since taking on the workshop, I have been almost 100% doing body off chassis rebuilds on TVRs.
Whilst I love the cars this was never the intention. Its near impossible to find staff to grow the business and TVR's are an extremely difficult business proposition - the number of random difficulties in disassembly/assembly or faults that have no relation to the work carried out is always difficult to manage. Keeping vehicles to schedule is a nightmare and tons of hours go into them that you simply cant bill for.
I've always worked on the mantra 'choose your customers, not your business' - due to the roaring success of the TVR work I was quickly swamped. TVR owners are a broad church. Most of them are really very decent and nice, but there are a tiny minority that you could never imagine driving anything else. There are VERY few of these, but its a very close nit community and they all talk to each other.
I made the mistake on unwittingly taking on one of these customers who found a long list of issues after delivery, some simply fabricated. Smelling foul play I contacted businesses they previously had used, none of them would deal with them again. So I suggested an independent inspection, and they rejected this (twice).
Immediately a number of bookings vaporised. He has since contacted other customers and its generally made the last few months incredibly stressful (or added to it). It seems to be getting worse, as he's now telling outright lies about me on PH - which I can prove are false. However he's been clever in not naming me directly, the community know who did the work. Genuinely a factor in me throwing in the towel with the TVR community - it only takes 1 or 2 weirdos to have a huge effect on your business. Its not a market I want to be in any more. Lifes too short.
So the business needed to change:
I was quite happy with changing the business, and even had around 6 months of bookings in for when I moved to surrey this month (was supposed to) - however, the only suitable workshops where hard to find and an uplift of outgoings to £3-4k a month, this is before paying myself. Going into a period of immense uncertainty.
The bounce back loan scheme seemed ideal for my situation, as turnover is high and the costs of moving would be covered. However, I bank with Tide. Don't bank with Tide. They got approved for the scheme but then didn't offer any BBL's. The doors pretty much shut for all the other banks immediately. As such I never got one. I had managed to save up some funds and could just about do it.
A simpler life:
Working 7 days a week until 12pm (sometimes) isn't really a good long term situation. I want to go back to a low overhead business without so many unknowns and a larger market. I went self employed for more freedom in my time to work on personal projects, the focus has to be on them now (some REAL automotive engineering projects).
In short, going into a massive period of uncertainty whilst having to slightly reinvent the business and pedal significantly harder (4k a month going out for a 10 year lease!) just didn't make sense.
So i'm going to enjoy the security of my savings in the bank, my new home and start a new simpler business - maybe I should reread this thread from the beginning. I'm still going to be involved with cars though and there are some interesting things in the works.
I basically just need a few weeks off at home.
I'm very excited and optimistic for the future, lets see what happens....
The last 6 months have been a nightmare and the hardest I've ever had to work, just to keep my head above water (including my dog nearly dying, me narrowly avoiding hospital due to covid).
Here's why...(i've tried to organise it as there are a lot of factors)
Issues with the present setup:
Since taking on the workshop, I have been almost 100% doing body off chassis rebuilds on TVRs.
Whilst I love the cars this was never the intention. Its near impossible to find staff to grow the business and TVR's are an extremely difficult business proposition - the number of random difficulties in disassembly/assembly or faults that have no relation to the work carried out is always difficult to manage. Keeping vehicles to schedule is a nightmare and tons of hours go into them that you simply cant bill for.
I've always worked on the mantra 'choose your customers, not your business' - due to the roaring success of the TVR work I was quickly swamped. TVR owners are a broad church. Most of them are really very decent and nice, but there are a tiny minority that you could never imagine driving anything else. There are VERY few of these, but its a very close nit community and they all talk to each other.
I made the mistake on unwittingly taking on one of these customers who found a long list of issues after delivery, some simply fabricated. Smelling foul play I contacted businesses they previously had used, none of them would deal with them again. So I suggested an independent inspection, and they rejected this (twice).
Immediately a number of bookings vaporised. He has since contacted other customers and its generally made the last few months incredibly stressful (or added to it). It seems to be getting worse, as he's now telling outright lies about me on PH - which I can prove are false. However he's been clever in not naming me directly, the community know who did the work. Genuinely a factor in me throwing in the towel with the TVR community - it only takes 1 or 2 weirdos to have a huge effect on your business. Its not a market I want to be in any more. Lifes too short.
So the business needed to change:
I was quite happy with changing the business, and even had around 6 months of bookings in for when I moved to surrey this month (was supposed to) - however, the only suitable workshops where hard to find and an uplift of outgoings to £3-4k a month, this is before paying myself. Going into a period of immense uncertainty.
The bounce back loan scheme seemed ideal for my situation, as turnover is high and the costs of moving would be covered. However, I bank with Tide. Don't bank with Tide. They got approved for the scheme but then didn't offer any BBL's. The doors pretty much shut for all the other banks immediately. As such I never got one. I had managed to save up some funds and could just about do it.
A simpler life:
Working 7 days a week until 12pm (sometimes) isn't really a good long term situation. I want to go back to a low overhead business without so many unknowns and a larger market. I went self employed for more freedom in my time to work on personal projects, the focus has to be on them now (some REAL automotive engineering projects).
In short, going into a massive period of uncertainty whilst having to slightly reinvent the business and pedal significantly harder (4k a month going out for a 10 year lease!) just didn't make sense.
So i'm going to enjoy the security of my savings in the bank, my new home and start a new simpler business - maybe I should reread this thread from the beginning. I'm still going to be involved with cars though and there are some interesting things in the works.
I basically just need a few weeks off at home.
I'm very excited and optimistic for the future, lets see what happens....
Edited by crosseyedlion on Tuesday 25th August 20:35
Just re-read this. Whilst looking at my own experience now the dust has settled. Its absolutely bang on, I agree.
voicey said:
Congratulations. As somebody who has been through a similar journey I would like to offer the following thoughts off the top of my head....
1. This is not an easy business to do on your own. Everyone is going to want a piece of you which is great but time spent on stuff like talking to clients or picking up cars generally can't be billed. Either get help or develop a strategy to manage your time away from revenue generation. I started by doing the latter and explicitly told my clients that they were free to call me on my mobile any time 24/7 but I will only answer if I could. They were asked to leave a message or text if I didn't answer and I would follow up with them as soon as possible. Generally I didn't answer the phone whilst working but did glance at the messages. If one looked urgent then I'd be able to stop work and address the matter. Everything else waited until I was home.
2. I suspect you may be paying too much for insurance (based on the photo of your workshop). I don't know your location but I'm not paying that much more for £2m of stock cover plus £500k of personal cars over 4 locations (also includes insurance on the buildings we own and employees and family road risk cover). Insurance is the biggest fixed overhead that is variable (unlike rates) so it is worth trying to get the best cover at the best price. I realise that getting cover in the first year of trading is difficult but you should look to drive the cost down in the future (IMO).
3. In my opinion it makes sense to specialise. I work closely with a workshop up the road from me that is attached to a v.large used car sales lot. The mechanics there are constantly pulling their hair out trying to work out how to do things for the first time. In contrast we are frequently developing special tools and methods for jobs that we perform time and time again. Getting very good (very quickly) is not only good for profitability but if you are able to make a name for yourself in a particular field then clients will be beating a path to your door = low marketing costs and a full diary. We do zero marketing and are currently taking bookings for late September.
4. Don't be afraid to turn work away. In the early days for me this was stuff I hadn't directly done before - try and stay inside your comfort zone for as much as possible. You'll never make any money working for hours you cannot bill. These days I'm more likely to be biffing off prospective clients I get a bad feeling about.
5. Don't get known as a bad payer and cultivate your supply chain. This industry is full of bad payers and arrogant tossers. If you pay your suppliers properly and treat them with respect it will pay dividends. I use the same bodyshop as one of my major competitors - we are allowed to drive cars away and pay on receipt of invoice (sometimes over £10k of work) whereas our compatriots have to pay up front. Usually this allows us enough time to get the car out/invoiced/paid for which means we don't have to fund the gap.
If at any point you'd like a sounding board then please feel free to PM me. I'm about three years ahead of you (business wise) and I had to figure out everything on my own. I'd be more than happy to help in anyway that I can. I also have some (positive) thoughts on specialising in Porsche that I'm not prepared to share in public.
1. This is not an easy business to do on your own. Everyone is going to want a piece of you which is great but time spent on stuff like talking to clients or picking up cars generally can't be billed. Either get help or develop a strategy to manage your time away from revenue generation. I started by doing the latter and explicitly told my clients that they were free to call me on my mobile any time 24/7 but I will only answer if I could. They were asked to leave a message or text if I didn't answer and I would follow up with them as soon as possible. Generally I didn't answer the phone whilst working but did glance at the messages. If one looked urgent then I'd be able to stop work and address the matter. Everything else waited until I was home.
2. I suspect you may be paying too much for insurance (based on the photo of your workshop). I don't know your location but I'm not paying that much more for £2m of stock cover plus £500k of personal cars over 4 locations (also includes insurance on the buildings we own and employees and family road risk cover). Insurance is the biggest fixed overhead that is variable (unlike rates) so it is worth trying to get the best cover at the best price. I realise that getting cover in the first year of trading is difficult but you should look to drive the cost down in the future (IMO).
3. In my opinion it makes sense to specialise. I work closely with a workshop up the road from me that is attached to a v.large used car sales lot. The mechanics there are constantly pulling their hair out trying to work out how to do things for the first time. In contrast we are frequently developing special tools and methods for jobs that we perform time and time again. Getting very good (very quickly) is not only good for profitability but if you are able to make a name for yourself in a particular field then clients will be beating a path to your door = low marketing costs and a full diary. We do zero marketing and are currently taking bookings for late September.
4. Don't be afraid to turn work away. In the early days for me this was stuff I hadn't directly done before - try and stay inside your comfort zone for as much as possible. You'll never make any money working for hours you cannot bill. These days I'm more likely to be biffing off prospective clients I get a bad feeling about.
5. Don't get known as a bad payer and cultivate your supply chain. This industry is full of bad payers and arrogant tossers. If you pay your suppliers properly and treat them with respect it will pay dividends. I use the same bodyshop as one of my major competitors - we are allowed to drive cars away and pay on receipt of invoice (sometimes over £10k of work) whereas our compatriots have to pay up front. Usually this allows us enough time to get the car out/invoiced/paid for which means we don't have to fund the gap.
If at any point you'd like a sounding board then please feel free to PM me. I'm about three years ahead of you (business wise) and I had to figure out everything on my own. I'd be more than happy to help in anyway that I can. I also have some (positive) thoughts on specialising in Porsche that I'm not prepared to share in public.
Raymond Reddington said:
Just read back through this, great thread.
I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Look at the mundane low/little overhead stuff. Things like fire extinguisher commissioning. I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Kingdom35 said:
People talk. They will if disgruntled want to destroy your business, even if its unwarranted. Some very horrible people out there. But also some very very nice people too.
Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
Absolutely true. Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
I'm gently putting some bits out on social media as I'm getting there was a new workshop. Booking some bits in already.
Last night I had a guy commenting on my post telling people to not use ANY TVR specialist workshop, in direct response to someone who was interested in buying one. I politely and diplomatically asked him to pipe down but he got quite irate and I had to block him in the end.
I've never had ANY dealings with the guy. He's happily going in my very short list of customers to avoid.
Luckily the person that he was responding to sent me a private message apologising and may now turn into a customer.
My point is, there are some complete wierdo's out there - developing thick skin and having confidence in yourself is essential. I treated last night almost as entertainment. 4 years ago I think it would have bothered me hugely.
Oh and if it is that type of business, keep an eye on social media. Sniff out those you wouldn't want to deal with. Put them on a list. Avoid. Life's too short.
GiantEnemyCrab said:
Best of luck!
Good size space that!
Thanks, the camera is very wide angle but its a new build (ie. warm and neat) unit with just enough room for 2 ramps, a fabrication area, a tiny clean room and an office. Can store 5 customers cars inside overnight & have 4 parking spaces outside. Good size space that!
We'll see how it goes but Ive got a mountain of work to get done before I even (re) open for business!
Gallons Per Mile said:
Wow! Would you mind sharing the costs of renting/buying that space? How are you going to attract customers as a brand new business? This is something I'd love to do but I'm having a good time being employed along with all the benefits that brings at the moment, so it's a bit of a pipe dream currently.
It's essentially a little...terrifying. I've broken my own advice with this and I'm going part time in my day job (3 days a week there is enough to pay my personal overheads). Aside from that the workshop needs to bing in 2500 a month profit every month to cover the overheads (it was about 1k less in sheffield) - which will be additionally challenging doing 20 hours a week there to start. This is before any salary.
But - the location has a lot going for it and the terms are good - 3 months deposit and I can be out after a year if I want.
Marketing wise I kept the social channels open from before so reengaging my old customer base has been straightforward. I have a job lined up which will take 1.5 months up and I'll be doing my own tvr and selling on. I put a 1 min video up of me standing in the workshop and the level of engagement is amazing, it's led to a couple of enquiries.
Right now the plan is - focus on TVRs (mostly). video content. Buy and fix cars to fill any lulls. Get to know the owners club guys (this is more personal than business, but if they like me enough to book - great).
For starting out I think mine and Aldous' earlier advice fits - not how I'm doing it now. But I've de-risked considerably and have more reserves now.
Gallons Per Mile said:
Thanks for the reply. Best of luck and I hope you make it work! Will you go full time in to your business again if/when it picks up and you have plenty of jobs booked?
When I find I'm consistently fully booked with paid customer work in the hours I have, I'll make the leap. However the current situation may be ideal In perpetuity if it brings the income it shouldGassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff