Low start up business ideas
Discussion
Presently re-reading this trying to talk me out of looking for a new unit down in Surrey - I still get enquiries, miss the cars and miss being self employed (I have a very comfortable, decent job in Data/Project Management now - And I'm good at it...I think)
Wonder if I'm just being misty eyed/rose tinted glasses...but there's so much of that life I miss. I also thought it was physically ruining me, but it turns out I have some sort of syndrome which means I have more pain (If I don't exercise enough) being desk based.
I've pursued Data and AI since (Including studying at Oxford...not a full degree though) worked in it ever since - and would like to offer training to small/medium businesses- It feels like where the money is flowing, and its interesting to me. But ultimately messing with cars is my happy place. Any Advice?
Wonder if I'm just being misty eyed/rose tinted glasses...but there's so much of that life I miss. I also thought it was physically ruining me, but it turns out I have some sort of syndrome which means I have more pain (If I don't exercise enough) being desk based.
I've pursued Data and AI since (Including studying at Oxford...not a full degree though) worked in it ever since - and would like to offer training to small/medium businesses- It feels like where the money is flowing, and its interesting to me. But ultimately messing with cars is my happy place. Any Advice?
crosseyedlion said:
Thanks! I've been waiting to see what happens to give you an update. However in summary, I found somewhere ideal near Horsham, got to the point of signing the lease - but backed out. We have bought a house in Surrey and are half moved in now, I have to finish up in Sheffield (probably about a months more work) but I still can't wait for the move.
The last 6 months have been a nightmare and the hardest I've ever had to work, just to keep my head above water (including my dog nearly dying, me narrowly avoiding hospital due to covid).
Here's why...(i've tried to organise it as there are a lot of factors)
Issues with the present setup:
Since taking on the workshop, I have been almost 100% doing body off chassis rebuilds on TVRs.
Whilst I love the cars this was never the intention. Its near impossible to find staff to grow the business and TVR's are an extremely difficult business proposition - the number of random difficulties in disassembly/assembly or faults that have no relation to the work carried out is always difficult to manage. Keeping vehicles to schedule is a nightmare and tons of hours go into them that you simply cant bill for.
I've always worked on the mantra 'choose your customers, not your business' - due to the roaring success of the TVR work I was quickly swamped. TVR owners are a broad church. Most of them are really very decent and nice, but there are a tiny minority that you could never imagine driving anything else. There are VERY few of these, but its a very close nit community and they all talk to each other.
I made the mistake on unwittingly taking on one of these customers who found a long list of issues after delivery, some simply fabricated. Smelling foul play I contacted businesses they previously had used, none of them would deal with them again. So I suggested an independent inspection, and they rejected this (twice).
Immediately a number of bookings vaporised. He has since contacted other customers and its generally made the last few months incredibly stressful (or added to it). It seems to be getting worse, as he's now telling outright lies about me on PH - which I can prove are false. However he's been clever in not naming me directly, the community know who did the work. Genuinely a factor in me throwing in the towel with the TVR community - it only takes 1 or 2 weirdos to have a huge effect on your business. Its not a market I want to be in any more. Lifes too short.
So the business needed to change:
I was quite happy with changing the business, and even had around 6 months of bookings in for when I moved to surrey this month (was supposed to) - however, the only suitable workshops where hard to find and an uplift of outgoings to £3-4k a month, this is before paying myself. Going into a period of immense uncertainty.
The bounce back loan scheme seemed ideal for my situation, as turnover is high and the costs of moving would be covered. However, I bank with Tide. Don't bank with Tide. They got approved for the scheme but then didn't offer any BBL's. The doors pretty much shut for all the other banks immediately. As such I never got one. I had managed to save up some funds and could just about do it.
A simpler life:
Working 7 days a week until 12pm (sometimes) isn't really a good long term situation. I want to go back to a low overhead business without so many unknowns and a larger market. I went self employed for more freedom in my time to work on personal projects, the focus has to be on them now (some REAL automotive engineering projects).
In short, going into a massive period of uncertainty whilst having to slightly reinvent the business and pedal significantly harder (4k a month going out for a 10 year lease!) just didn't make sense.
So i'm going to enjoy the security of my savings in the bank, my new home and start a new simpler business - maybe I should reread this thread from the beginning. I'm still going to be involved with cars though and there are some interesting things in the works.
I basically just need a few weeks off at home.
I'm very excited and optimistic for the future, lets see what happens....
The last 6 months have been a nightmare and the hardest I've ever had to work, just to keep my head above water (including my dog nearly dying, me narrowly avoiding hospital due to covid).
Here's why...(i've tried to organise it as there are a lot of factors)
Issues with the present setup:
Since taking on the workshop, I have been almost 100% doing body off chassis rebuilds on TVRs.
Whilst I love the cars this was never the intention. Its near impossible to find staff to grow the business and TVR's are an extremely difficult business proposition - the number of random difficulties in disassembly/assembly or faults that have no relation to the work carried out is always difficult to manage. Keeping vehicles to schedule is a nightmare and tons of hours go into them that you simply cant bill for.
I've always worked on the mantra 'choose your customers, not your business' - due to the roaring success of the TVR work I was quickly swamped. TVR owners are a broad church. Most of them are really very decent and nice, but there are a tiny minority that you could never imagine driving anything else. There are VERY few of these, but its a very close nit community and they all talk to each other.
I made the mistake on unwittingly taking on one of these customers who found a long list of issues after delivery, some simply fabricated. Smelling foul play I contacted businesses they previously had used, none of them would deal with them again. So I suggested an independent inspection, and they rejected this (twice).
Immediately a number of bookings vaporised. He has since contacted other customers and its generally made the last few months incredibly stressful (or added to it). It seems to be getting worse, as he's now telling outright lies about me on PH - which I can prove are false. However he's been clever in not naming me directly, the community know who did the work. Genuinely a factor in me throwing in the towel with the TVR community - it only takes 1 or 2 weirdos to have a huge effect on your business. Its not a market I want to be in any more. Lifes too short.
So the business needed to change:
I was quite happy with changing the business, and even had around 6 months of bookings in for when I moved to surrey this month (was supposed to) - however, the only suitable workshops where hard to find and an uplift of outgoings to £3-4k a month, this is before paying myself. Going into a period of immense uncertainty.
The bounce back loan scheme seemed ideal for my situation, as turnover is high and the costs of moving would be covered. However, I bank with Tide. Don't bank with Tide. They got approved for the scheme but then didn't offer any BBL's. The doors pretty much shut for all the other banks immediately. As such I never got one. I had managed to save up some funds and could just about do it.
A simpler life:
Working 7 days a week until 12pm (sometimes) isn't really a good long term situation. I want to go back to a low overhead business without so many unknowns and a larger market. I went self employed for more freedom in my time to work on personal projects, the focus has to be on them now (some REAL automotive engineering projects).
In short, going into a massive period of uncertainty whilst having to slightly reinvent the business and pedal significantly harder (4k a month going out for a 10 year lease!) just didn't make sense.
So i'm going to enjoy the security of my savings in the bank, my new home and start a new simpler business - maybe I should reread this thread from the beginning. I'm still going to be involved with cars though and there are some interesting things in the works.
I basically just need a few weeks off at home.
I'm very excited and optimistic for the future, lets see what happens....
Edited by crosseyedlion on Tuesday 25th August 20:35
Just re-read this. Whilst looking at my own experience now the dust has settled. Its absolutely bang on, I agree.
voicey said:
Congratulations. As somebody who has been through a similar journey I would like to offer the following thoughts off the top of my head....
1. This is not an easy business to do on your own. Everyone is going to want a piece of you which is great but time spent on stuff like talking to clients or picking up cars generally can't be billed. Either get help or develop a strategy to manage your time away from revenue generation. I started by doing the latter and explicitly told my clients that they were free to call me on my mobile any time 24/7 but I will only answer if I could. They were asked to leave a message or text if I didn't answer and I would follow up with them as soon as possible. Generally I didn't answer the phone whilst working but did glance at the messages. If one looked urgent then I'd be able to stop work and address the matter. Everything else waited until I was home.
2. I suspect you may be paying too much for insurance (based on the photo of your workshop). I don't know your location but I'm not paying that much more for £2m of stock cover plus £500k of personal cars over 4 locations (also includes insurance on the buildings we own and employees and family road risk cover). Insurance is the biggest fixed overhead that is variable (unlike rates) so it is worth trying to get the best cover at the best price. I realise that getting cover in the first year of trading is difficult but you should look to drive the cost down in the future (IMO).
3. In my opinion it makes sense to specialise. I work closely with a workshop up the road from me that is attached to a v.large used car sales lot. The mechanics there are constantly pulling their hair out trying to work out how to do things for the first time. In contrast we are frequently developing special tools and methods for jobs that we perform time and time again. Getting very good (very quickly) is not only good for profitability but if you are able to make a name for yourself in a particular field then clients will be beating a path to your door = low marketing costs and a full diary. We do zero marketing and are currently taking bookings for late September.
4. Don't be afraid to turn work away. In the early days for me this was stuff I hadn't directly done before - try and stay inside your comfort zone for as much as possible. You'll never make any money working for hours you cannot bill. These days I'm more likely to be biffing off prospective clients I get a bad feeling about.
5. Don't get known as a bad payer and cultivate your supply chain. This industry is full of bad payers and arrogant tossers. If you pay your suppliers properly and treat them with respect it will pay dividends. I use the same bodyshop as one of my major competitors - we are allowed to drive cars away and pay on receipt of invoice (sometimes over £10k of work) whereas our compatriots have to pay up front. Usually this allows us enough time to get the car out/invoiced/paid for which means we don't have to fund the gap.
If at any point you'd like a sounding board then please feel free to PM me. I'm about three years ahead of you (business wise) and I had to figure out everything on my own. I'd be more than happy to help in anyway that I can. I also have some (positive) thoughts on specialising in Porsche that I'm not prepared to share in public.
1. This is not an easy business to do on your own. Everyone is going to want a piece of you which is great but time spent on stuff like talking to clients or picking up cars generally can't be billed. Either get help or develop a strategy to manage your time away from revenue generation. I started by doing the latter and explicitly told my clients that they were free to call me on my mobile any time 24/7 but I will only answer if I could. They were asked to leave a message or text if I didn't answer and I would follow up with them as soon as possible. Generally I didn't answer the phone whilst working but did glance at the messages. If one looked urgent then I'd be able to stop work and address the matter. Everything else waited until I was home.
2. I suspect you may be paying too much for insurance (based on the photo of your workshop). I don't know your location but I'm not paying that much more for £2m of stock cover plus £500k of personal cars over 4 locations (also includes insurance on the buildings we own and employees and family road risk cover). Insurance is the biggest fixed overhead that is variable (unlike rates) so it is worth trying to get the best cover at the best price. I realise that getting cover in the first year of trading is difficult but you should look to drive the cost down in the future (IMO).
3. In my opinion it makes sense to specialise. I work closely with a workshop up the road from me that is attached to a v.large used car sales lot. The mechanics there are constantly pulling their hair out trying to work out how to do things for the first time. In contrast we are frequently developing special tools and methods for jobs that we perform time and time again. Getting very good (very quickly) is not only good for profitability but if you are able to make a name for yourself in a particular field then clients will be beating a path to your door = low marketing costs and a full diary. We do zero marketing and are currently taking bookings for late September.
4. Don't be afraid to turn work away. In the early days for me this was stuff I hadn't directly done before - try and stay inside your comfort zone for as much as possible. You'll never make any money working for hours you cannot bill. These days I'm more likely to be biffing off prospective clients I get a bad feeling about.
5. Don't get known as a bad payer and cultivate your supply chain. This industry is full of bad payers and arrogant tossers. If you pay your suppliers properly and treat them with respect it will pay dividends. I use the same bodyshop as one of my major competitors - we are allowed to drive cars away and pay on receipt of invoice (sometimes over £10k of work) whereas our compatriots have to pay up front. Usually this allows us enough time to get the car out/invoiced/paid for which means we don't have to fund the gap.
If at any point you'd like a sounding board then please feel free to PM me. I'm about three years ahead of you (business wise) and I had to figure out everything on my own. I'd be more than happy to help in anyway that I can. I also have some (positive) thoughts on specialising in Porsche that I'm not prepared to share in public.
DSLiverpool said:
Just started working with an arcade machine hire company, I’m going to sort a franchise type thing out.
A low cost business as it’s just selling preferably long term sites.
Many many years ago I did this with pub quiz machines. I found that all the best locations were in big chains and they had national contracts. Plus it doesn't take long for people to get bored of the same machine and they were big and heavy things to swap about. Some of the newer machines where you could simply swap the software seem much better. A low cost business as it’s just selling preferably long term sites.
Raymond Reddington said:
Just read back through this, great thread.
I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Look at the mundane low/little overhead stuff. Things like fire extinguisher commissioning. I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Raymond Reddington said:
Just read back through this, great thread.
I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
If there's any money in your area get an inexpensive van or even a big estate, then do gardening when the weather is right for it and handyman stuff for the same customers when it isn't. I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
crosseyedlion said:
Raymond Reddington said:
Just read back through this, great thread.
I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Look at the mundane low/little overhead stuff. Things like fire extinguisher commissioning. I'm now working 3 days per week (36hrs) and thinking of something I can start in the other 4 days, which could lead to me jacking in my day job.
Also from my own experience now with 2 side businesses on the go.....take every opportunity, exploit it/run with it but dont ever underestimate how important customer service/the customer experience is. People talk. They will if disgruntled want to destroy your business, even if its unwarranted. Some very horrible people out there. But also some very very nice people too.
Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
Im in the Vinyl industry and refurbishing consumables. The latter is my latest and im running with it to see how far i can go.
Good luck all, great thread so far
Kingdom35 said:
People talk. They will if disgruntled want to destroy your business, even if its unwarranted. Some very horrible people out there. But also some very very nice people too.
Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
Absolutely true. Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
I'm gently putting some bits out on social media as I'm getting there was a new workshop. Booking some bits in already.
Last night I had a guy commenting on my post telling people to not use ANY TVR specialist workshop, in direct response to someone who was interested in buying one. I politely and diplomatically asked him to pipe down but he got quite irate and I had to block him in the end.
I've never had ANY dealings with the guy. He's happily going in my very short list of customers to avoid.
Luckily the person that he was responding to sent me a private message apologising and may now turn into a customer.
My point is, there are some complete wierdo's out there - developing thick skin and having confidence in yourself is essential. I treated last night almost as entertainment. 4 years ago I think it would have bothered me hugely.
Oh and if it is that type of business, keep an eye on social media. Sniff out those you wouldn't want to deal with. Put them on a list. Avoid. Life's too short.
I advise manufacturing companies on CE / UKCA marking. There are remarkably few of us in the country. I usually go to each job once, maybe twice, the rest of the time I work from home. As far as low cost start ups go it very low, you just need to learn stuff. An engineering background would help.
crosseyedlion said:
Kingdom35 said:
People talk. They will if disgruntled want to destroy your business, even if its unwarranted. Some very horrible people out there. But also some very very nice people too.
Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
Absolutely true. Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
I'm gently putting some bits out on social media as I'm getting there was a new workshop. Booking some bits in already.
Last night I had a guy commenting on my post telling people to not use ANY TVR specialist workshop, in direct response to someone who was interested in buying one. I politely and diplomatically asked him to pipe down but he got quite irate and I had to block him in the end.
I've never had ANY dealings with the guy. He's happily going in my very short list of customers to avoid.
Luckily the person that he was responding to sent me a private message apologising and may now turn into a customer.
My point is, there are some complete wierdo's out there - developing thick skin and having confidence in yourself is essential. I treated last night almost as entertainment. 4 years ago I think it would have bothered me hugely.
Oh and if it is that type of business, keep an eye on social media. Sniff out those you wouldn't want to deal with. Put them on a list. Avoid. Life's too short.
Upinflames said:
I advise manufacturing companies on CE / UKCA marking. There are remarkably few of us in the country. I usually go to each job once, maybe twice, the rest of the time I work from home. As far as low cost start ups go it very low, you just need to learn stuff. An engineering background would help.
I would say you're greatly under estimating your skills there.I cant imagine anyone is, for example, going to pay £££s per day for someone who has "learned stuff" from a book / online.
I'm an IT Contractor and whilst in theory what i do is quite simple, its based on an awful lot of experience over the years.
Thats what gets me the day rate, not having read a book or two.
Frimley111R said:
Yep, in my business our customers have been great but we've had two total nutcases. They are inevitable.
Unfortunately it is. Some very very strange and unhinged people out there. Perhaps a new thread titled "Your worse Customer experience as a seller" is a cracking and entertaining thread to start. But i had an encounter on the bay, with (who knows now) an apparent autistic teenager, his father and some choice words. I will never know how true it was but after the abuse and threats, i asked said father who also "said he would come down my area to sort me out". Eventually politely apologize to me once reading his apparent sons messages to me. Worse part is, i went over and above to accommodate his needs, he misinformed me on some measurements and it was then my fault. Brilliant entertainment now but not then.
crosseyedlion said:
Kingdom35 said:
People talk. They will if disgruntled want to destroy your business, even if its unwarranted. Some very horrible people out there. But also some very very nice people too.
Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
Absolutely true. Thick skin is needed, i struggle there sometimes.
I'm gently putting some bits out on social media as I'm getting there was a new workshop. Booking some bits in already.
Last night I had a guy commenting on my post telling people to not use ANY TVR specialist workshop, in direct response to someone who was interested in buying one. I politely and diplomatically asked him to pipe down but he got quite irate and I had to block him in the end.
I've never had ANY dealings with the guy. He's happily going in my very short list of customers to avoid.
Luckily the person that he was responding to sent me a private message apologising and may now turn into a customer.
My point is, there are some complete wierdo's out there - developing thick skin and having confidence in yourself is essential. I treated last night almost as entertainment. 4 years ago I think it would have bothered me hugely.
Oh and if it is that type of business, keep an eye on social media. Sniff out those you wouldn't want to deal with. Put them on a list. Avoid. Life's too short.
It does depend on the platform but keeping everything monitored and as clean as possible can become hard work.
Logically you want the customers that can "see the wood from the trees" and look at situations and also detect "idiot" too.
Feedback on ebay for instance is crazy. Never going to achieve 100%.
crosseyedlion said:
Look at the mundane low/little overhead stuff. Things like fire extinguisher commissioning.
singlecoil said:
If there's any money in your area get an inexpensive van or even a big estate, then do gardening when the weather is right for it and handyman stuff for the same customers when it isn't.
I'm not keen on gardening, it was one of the first things I thought of and then I remembered I'd actually have to spend my time doing whatever it is I make a go of. I'm thinking of perhaps buying a little Fiesta van or similar and offering carpet cleaning, there doesn't seem to be many people offering the service locally and low start up and overheads.
I'd like to do something that's scalable so this could perhaps lead to end of tenancy carpet cleans/or general cleaning, commercial stuff perhaps -
if it did take off a bit and I became busy I'm in the potentially fortunate position of my Mrs being on maternity leave and not wanting to return to her day job, and unemployed mother who I'm sure would jump at some extra cash, so it would allow me to grow slowly without taking anyone on for a while, and maybe still managing to do my day job for a while on Saturday Sunday and Monday.
I'm thinking of keeping it simple, basic work uniform with logo, some equipment which shouldn't cost a bomb, small but presentable sign written van, some nice time-lapse videos on social media like people seem to do with jetwashing.
Not the most exciting idea I guess but it would be nice to be steering my own ship for a change.
Both me and my other half are trained in jobs where it's quite hard/expensive to build a scalable business so I'm always trying to think of things we can make a success of.
A young (early 20s) relation of mine has just finished his first year as a self employed "finishing business". He takes on the DIY jobs that you haven't finished or can't be bothered to do - hanging doors, building flat pack furniture, skirting / architraves, putting up shelves etc. He has work coming out of his ears and is booked up weeks in advance. Although he's trained as a joiner, he's not really taking on anything any competent DIYer couldn't also do. If you have some tools and are mobile it's a reasonably low barrier to entry business.
Been thinking of starting a 1 man "hotel/guesthouse/B&B assistance" service.
I work in hotels and since Brexit, housekeeping and cleaning staff has been a big struggle, especially in touristy cities were you literally can't afford to live on minimum wage.
Thinking during peak times book me out and I'll strip beds, remove rubbish, vacuum rooms and corridors leaving the professional stuff (cleaning and bed making) to trained housekeepers, less tasks for them should increase their productivity (turning rooms around).
The agencies that have employed me are emailing every other day and hotels struggling aswell ooking at Indeed and other job platforms.
No idea if it's a go-er, no idea how I'd get word out their, no idea what insurance i'd need. Just a thought as staff at this hotel are stretched and overworked due to employment numbers.
I work in hotels and since Brexit, housekeeping and cleaning staff has been a big struggle, especially in touristy cities were you literally can't afford to live on minimum wage.
Thinking during peak times book me out and I'll strip beds, remove rubbish, vacuum rooms and corridors leaving the professional stuff (cleaning and bed making) to trained housekeepers, less tasks for them should increase their productivity (turning rooms around).
The agencies that have employed me are emailing every other day and hotels struggling aswell ooking at Indeed and other job platforms.
No idea if it's a go-er, no idea how I'd get word out their, no idea what insurance i'd need. Just a thought as staff at this hotel are stretched and overworked due to employment numbers.
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