Making tax digital

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

The main issue we had is the sandbox API is stateless.

You might have to explain that in normal English.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

plasticpig said:

The main issue we had is the sandbox API is stateless.

You might have to explain that in normal English.

sandbox = A test environment where you are testing against made up data.
stateless = When you submit a return it doesn't actually update anything.

[Eric Mc]

"Sandbox" kind of makes sense. "Stateless" seems a rather silly term in this context. "Test return" would be better.

[akirk]

plasticpig said:

akirk said:

It has been an interesting experience...


in reality - neat simple software with really good support from the relevant team - an approach more akin to a modern tech company, not HMRC - so to be applauded... I appreciate that there is a valid debate around whether it should happen or not (I think that it is inevitable that all accounting will go fully digital at some point) - but the actual implementation has been good as far as we can see...

The main issue we had is the sandbox API is stateless. Not a major problem when you are doing a single submission for a single company. It's very difficult to test an agent with a multiple submission scenario. We ended up writing our own API simulation which filled in some of the missing bits.

makes sense - as you say, easy for us... I think the whole thing has been quite rushed, so I have just been impressed by how good it is considering that it is HMRC, better written and better documented than many commercial APIs we have used...

[sbk1972]

Hi all,

So Ive received an email from HMRC about confirming which software I will be using etc etc. Ive left it long enough hoping others will trail blaze the way forward.

So, what software have you guys gone for ? I have 2 businesses, so will need to have a software where I can use it for 2 return processes.

[LeighW]

sbk1972 said:

Hi all,

So Ive received an email from HMRC about confirming which software I will be using etc etc. Ive left it long enough hoping others will trail blaze the way forward.

So, what software have you guys gone for ? I have 2 businesses, so will need to have a software where I can use it for 2 return processes.

Do the two businesses have separate VAT registrations? What software do you currently use?

[Eric Mc]

sbk1972 said:

Hi all,

So Ive received an email from HMRC about confirming which software I will be using etc etc. Ive left it long enough hoping others will trail blaze the way forward.

So, what software have you guys gone for ? I have 2 businesses, so will need to have a software where I can use it for 2 return processes.

Ask them why they need to know?

[snuffy]

I've not received any sure email from HMRC.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

Ask them why they need to know?

They will know as soon as a submission has been made what software is being used so it seems an odd question to ask. I haven't seen such a question and I have been involved with quite a few sign ups with different clients.

[sbk1972]

Hi all,

Thanks for replying. Im an IT contractor, plus I am partners in another non IT business. So I have 2 different HRMC numbers etc etc.

I haven't yet downloaded any software. I was using my own spreadsheets to work out VAT, then logging into the HMRC portal and manually entering the data into the 9 boxes.

Originally I was looking for free software, but I dont mind paying 20/30quid if needs by. I would imagine some of you must of now submitted VAT returns using this new method, so am keen to understand what S/W you used.


The letter I received, or email, was from Advice.HMRC. I have cut / pasted it below.


Dear customer,

Hundreds of thousands of businesses have now signed up to Making Tax Digital.

We noticed that as of yesterday you are not one of them.

From now onwards, VAT registered businesses like yours, with an annual taxable turnover above the VAT threshold of £85,000 must:

keep digital records for all VAT transactions
use software to submit VAT returns to us digitally via Making Tax Digital.
Get your business ready so that your next return can be submitted through the new system.

Do you have a plan for this change?

To get your business ready you should:

Now – choose Making Tax Digital compatible software or check your current software is ready
In the next few days – pick a date and set aside time to sign up on GOV.UK – set a reminder and save this email so that you have the links to hand
In the next few weeks – authorise your software for Making Tax Digital. Ask your supplier if you do not know how.
Use the step by step guide to join Making Tax Digital or register to join a webinar covering the requirements and fundamentals of Making Tax Digital. You can also watch a video to hear how a family butcher that’s been in business since 1515 transitioned to Making Tax Digital or an accountant helping their clients’ transition to the new system.

If you use an accountant or agent you should speak to them about signing up to Making Tax Digital.

Clare Sheehan 2
Clare Sheehan

Deputy Director – Making Tax Digital for Business

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For more information and support from HMRC please visit our help and support pages.

[Eric Mc]

Some of my clients received that message too. It's just a reminder. It has no legal power of enforcement.

[plasticpig]

If you are using spreadsheets then you are looking for bridging software to take your box 1 to 9 figures from spreadsheet and submit them to HMRC. There are three different types of solutions to this.

1. Cloud based:

You upload your spreadsheet with the Box 1 to 9 figures and then the server submits the figures to HMRC. These mostly have an annual or monthly fee.

2. Excel based.

You identify your Box 1 to 9 figures in an Excel spreadsheet and submits the figures to HMRC from Excel. Some solutions go via the software providers server and some submit the figures directly to HMRC. Again these mainly have a monthly or annual fee.

3. Desktop Software.

You import your spread sheet in to the software and identify the Box 1 to 9 figures and the software submits them to HMRC. Again they are usually licensed based on an annual fee.

Most of the solutions for submitting multiple VRN's have pricing from £40 to £100 per year.

[snuffy]

My VAT period is Apr-June so my next return I will be using the Excel bridging software I've bought a while ago. I shall post up when I've done it to hopefully say it worked !

[sbk1972]

Thanks plasticpig.

All 3 look interesting, which one is more long term ? I know that vat is going digital so are these 3 just for the next year or so ?

What are the recommended software names ? Which one did you go for ?

[plasticpig]

sbk1972 said:

Thanks plasticpig.

All 3 look interesting, which one is more long term ? I know that vat is going digital so are these 3 just for the next year or so ?

What are the recommended software names ? Which one did you go for ?

I am involved in developing accounting software and bridging software so we use are own solution. Bridging software will be around for a long time. Quite a few of my companies clients using our accounting software are actually using our bridging software and not posting VAT directly from the accounting software.

There are many reasons for this but as an example the company is in a VAT group and not all companies in the VAT group use our accounting software so they need to use spreadsheets to sum up the VAT from the different companies. Another is that a parent company mandate an exchange rate which is different to the HMRC one so the VAT return has to be revalued using the HMRC exchange rate before being submitted.

[LeighW]

sbk1972 said:

Thanks plasticpig.

All 3 look interesting, which one is more long term ? I know that vat is going digital so are these 3 just for the next year or so ?

What are the recommended software names ? Which one did you go for ?

There was some confusion initially that people thought bridging software would only be allowed temporarily, but HMRC say that isn't the case. We are using Absolute VAT Filer, £40 per year for up to ten licences. It all seems to work ok and is straight forward to use, but we are yet to submit a return.

[sbk1972]

Bridging it is then :-)

Absolute VAT Filer, £40 Will this allow me to submit 2 returns / 2 different logins ? Is there a particular bridging software which is leading ?

Ive just been told about quickfile.co.uk. This is free. Personally I dont mind paying 30/40quid for a better solutions.

[LeighW]

sbk1972 said:

Bridging it is then :-)

Absolute VAT Filer, £40 Will this allow me to submit 2 returns / 2 different logins ? Is there a particular bridging software which is leading ?

Ive just been told about quickfile.co.uk. This is free. Personally I dont mind paying 30/40quid for a better solutions.

Details are on the website HERE, including a 'how to' video. I can't comment on other software, this was one of the first ones I saw. It suited my needs I so haven't looked elsewhere, I'm sure there are plenty that work equally well though.

[Eric Mc]

Initially, HMRC strongly hinted that "bridging" was purely a short term measure before full-on digital reporting would be required. They have backed off on this now after representations from business bodies.

In the long run HMRC wants 100% access to 100% of the business records of 100% of businesses in the UK. They will get there eventually - but not for a while yet.

[plasticpig]

LeighW said:

There was some confusion initially that people thought bridging software would only be allowed temporarily, but HMRC say that isn't the case. We are using Absolute VAT Filer, £40 per year for up to ten licences. It all seems to work ok and is straight forward to use, but we are yet to submit a return.

The confusion comes from HMRC saying that for the first year they would accept figures cut and pasted from one piece of software to bridging software rather than a digital link.

The other thing which is going to cause a lot of confusion is Box 5 (Net VAT due). This figure is often calculated as a negative if VAT is being reclaimed. It is always a positive figure as it's actually the deduction of the smaller figure from the larger figure from Box 3 and Box 4 and was calculated automatically for you on the old online system.