Ticketmaster - a strange way to do business
Discussion
)StevieBee said:
The Moose said:
IMHO, there’s nothing wrong with touting.
Why do you say that?Touting artificially restricts the supply of tickets which inflates their value meaning someone who'd like one is either forced to pay a higher price or not go to the event. I don't see how this is in anyway OK - but willing to hear an alternative view.
My opinion is that it's part of a free, capitalist market...which I believe is right.
The Moose said:
StevieBee said:
The Moose said:
IMHO, there’s nothing wrong with touting.
Why do you say that?Touting artificially restricts the supply of tickets which inflates their value meaning someone who'd like one is either forced to pay a higher price or not go to the event. I don't see how this is in anyway OK - but willing to hear an alternative view.
My opinion is that it's part of a free, capitalist market...which I believe is right.
1) If a theatre is selling a ticket for £30 then people should be able to see the show for £30.
or:
2) A ticket has a market value - what people are willing to pay - so view the theatre price as 'trade' and then retail it for as much as you can. However I don't find it parallel to, say, a car dealer, because the latter adds value (service, warranty) etc. And my ticket is not being delivered in a gold box on a red velvet cushion.
Simpo Two said:
The Moose said:
StevieBee said:
The Moose said:
IMHO, there’s nothing wrong with touting.
Why do you say that?Touting artificially restricts the supply of tickets which inflates their value meaning someone who'd like one is either forced to pay a higher price or not go to the event. I don't see how this is in anyway OK - but willing to hear an alternative view.
My opinion is that it's part of a free, capitalist market...which I believe is right.
1) If a theatre is selling a ticket for £30 then people should be able to see the show for £30.
or:
2) A ticket has a market value - what people are willing to pay - so view the theatre price as 'trade' and then retail it for as much as you can. However I don't find it parallel to, say, a car dealer, because the latter adds value (service, warranty) etc. And my ticket is not being delivered in a gold box on a red velvet cushion.
Well, Ticketmaster asked me for a screenshot showing the bit about RMSD and I sent it.
Just got this reply:
'Unfortunately the seller called and spoke with me and advised that they had not received the original tickets from us to dispatch to you.'
Why not just post the tickets to me and send the reseller his cut?
Just got this reply:
Ticketmaster said:
Many thanks for your reply,
Thank You for that information. The emails have come from our Ticket Exchange Resale department. They are correct by advising originally the tickets were due to be dispatched by the seller by Royal Mail Special Delivery.
Unfortunately the seller called and spoke with me and advised that they had not received the original tickets from us to dispatch to you.
When this happens we raise an internal query to check if we can transfer the original tickets into a new account for you which we did.
When we have transferred the tickets if the event is close we will always duplicate the tickets for venue box office collection on the day of the event to guarantee you can attend.
That is why you now have to collect the tickets on the 27/02/2020 when the doors open at 6:30 pm.
The following is the breakdown of your charges:
Face Value £27.50
Quantity 2
Per Ticket £32.42
Subtotal £64.84
Processing Fee £8.10
VAT £2.04
Discount £0.00
Ticket Cover £0.00
Delivery £2.08
Total Price Paid (GTV) £77.06
You have not paid for Royal Mail Special Delivery so we cannot refund any money back to yourself. The delivery charge of £2.08 will cover the cost of the tickets being sent to the venue for collection.
We do apologise that we cannot offer anything further regarding this and hope you understand.
If you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
Does that make sense?Thank You for that information. The emails have come from our Ticket Exchange Resale department. They are correct by advising originally the tickets were due to be dispatched by the seller by Royal Mail Special Delivery.
Unfortunately the seller called and spoke with me and advised that they had not received the original tickets from us to dispatch to you.
When this happens we raise an internal query to check if we can transfer the original tickets into a new account for you which we did.
When we have transferred the tickets if the event is close we will always duplicate the tickets for venue box office collection on the day of the event to guarantee you can attend.
That is why you now have to collect the tickets on the 27/02/2020 when the doors open at 6:30 pm.
The following is the breakdown of your charges:
Face Value £27.50
Quantity 2
Per Ticket £32.42
Subtotal £64.84
Processing Fee £8.10
VAT £2.04
Discount £0.00
Ticket Cover £0.00
Delivery £2.08
Total Price Paid (GTV) £77.06
You have not paid for Royal Mail Special Delivery so we cannot refund any money back to yourself. The delivery charge of £2.08 will cover the cost of the tickets being sent to the venue for collection.
We do apologise that we cannot offer anything further regarding this and hope you understand.
If you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
'Unfortunately the seller called and spoke with me and advised that they had not received the original tickets from us to dispatch to you.'
Why not just post the tickets to me and send the reseller his cut?
Simpo Two said:
The Moose said:
[Haven't you just answered your own question? The theatre aren't selling the tickets!
www.ticketsolve.com?
Ah, you may have a point. Why can't the theatre sell tickets? Is it too difficult these days?www.ticketsolve.com?
If the theatre uses a 3rd party ticketing service, that service has all the cost & hassles of running the website & ticketing system (not to be underestimated). The theatre receives face value for the tickets. The production takes a cut of the box office (unless there's a buy-out in place).
If the theatre runs its own ticketing, it has to carry all the cost and hassle from its share of the box office, lowering revenues. If the theatre tries to put in a "box office less £3 per ticket" clause in the contract, the act complains they're being stiffed.
Way easier for the venue to offload ticketing and let the punters foot the bill. No real business case for doing anything different. A change of law would be required to eliminate booking fees.
skwdenyer said:
Simpo Two said:
The Moose said:
[Haven't you just answered your own question? The theatre aren't selling the tickets!
www.ticketsolve.com?
Ah, you may have a point. Why can't the theatre sell tickets? Is it too difficult these days?www.ticketsolve.com?
If the theatre uses a 3rd party ticketing service, that service has all the cost & hassles of running the website & ticketing system (not to be underestimated). The theatre receives face value for the tickets. The production takes a cut of the box office (unless there's a buy-out in place).
If the theatre runs its own ticketing, it has to carry all the cost and hassle from its share of the box office, lowering revenues. If the theatre tries to put in a "box office less £3 per ticket" clause in the contract, the act complains they're being stiffed.
Way easier for the venue to offload ticketing and let the punters foot the bill. No real business case for doing anything different. A change of law would be required to eliminate booking fees.
Simpo Two said:
Booking fees are one thing, but the issue I have is people who buy tickets to shows they have no intention of going to, then using Ticketmaster's 'Ticket Exchange' service to resell. Whilst the tickets I got say on the back 'Reselling of tickets is not permitted' - they obviously are.
Many things sell out fast & are re-sold. Limited edition cars being one of them.Intangible goods are a problem. Are they things that may be bought and sold, or rights granted only on a non-transferable basis?
It was long a bone of contention that software licences could not be re-sold (except in Germany) for instance.
This discussion seldom centres on principles but on self-interest; second hand MS Word good (lower prices); second hand gig tickets bad (higher prices) etc.
Of course ticket re-selling pushes up prices. But many types of events & activities are rationed by price - stately homes couldn’t cope with unlimited visitors, roads are priced by taxation, trains are limited by price, etc.
As a promoter, there are benefits to a model that all-but guarantees that budgeted revenues be made & cash generated quickly.
The problem arguably isn’t the touting; it is that the tickets are notionally on sale at “face value” at all. An alternate approach would be to sell *all* tickets wholesale to resellers & then let the market determine the ultimate fair price. The only benefit of allowing punters to compete with wholesale buyers is that the dedicated & determined fan has a chance of a “bargain” but it might be better if that chance were lost in order to remove the perception of gouging?
I don’t like that it happens, FWIW, but as a matter of principle I’m unclear how it should be stopped. What other things are you happy to lose the right to re-sell? Is wholesaling per se something that should be outlawed? Or are concert tickets a special case all by themselves?
skwdenyer said:
I don’t like that it happens, FWIW, but as a matter of principle I’m unclear how it should be stopped. What other things are you happy to lose the right to re-sell? Is wholesaling per se something that should be outlawed? Or are concert tickets a special case all by themselves?
If I can't beat them, then I'm happy to join them. I asked Ticketmaster what returns I could expect on an investment of £1,000 They didn't answer, but said that the original buyers can't sell tickets for more than they paid for them. I have yet to dig out what the real picture is.
Simpo Two said:
skwdenyer said:
I don’t like that it happens, FWIW, but as a matter of principle I’m unclear how it should be stopped. What other things are you happy to lose the right to re-sell? Is wholesaling per se something that should be outlawed? Or are concert tickets a special case all by themselves?
If I can't beat them, then I'm happy to join them. I asked Ticketmaster what returns I could expect on an investment of £1,000 They didn't answer, but said that the original buyers can't sell tickets for more than they paid for them. I have yet to dig out what the real picture is.
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