Gone very quiet
Discussion
Tim Cognito said:
DSLiverpool said:
Amazon client is 100% up with an AOV of £11 and sales hitting £180k / month in Feb !
They sell household and light DIY but don’t actually stock anything.
Maybe not specialising is the answer?
How much business acumen and skill is involved in this would you say? Or are they just importing a load of EANs from their dropshippers into some pricing software and setting it to the "pile em high and sell em cheap" mode?They sell household and light DIY but don’t actually stock anything.
Maybe not specialising is the answer?
r3g said:
This ^. £180k sales but after Amazon have finished taking their cuts, actual realised profit = £2.50.
It’s not bad as anyone who knows Amazon will tell you that its cashflow that kills Amazon businesses- you have to have a decent profit to absorb the cashflow grand national.Dr Interceptor said:
Despite it seeming like it never stopped raining, we had a good April (Swimming Pool Retail).
A rare month where every sales channel (account sales, all three websites, amazon and the B&M shop) were all up on 2023.
It’s lovely to get a full house so to speak - nice one. A rare month where every sales channel (account sales, all three websites, amazon and the B&M shop) were all up on 2023.
Well done Doctor - amazing results. 
As you may remember we are in 'gardening' so are a similar "weather-dependent" business as your good self.
We're unfortunately seeing consumer demand down -30% in our sector.
We sell nationally across whole of UK.
Investment in new product development and wholesale sales have kept our trading figs 'just' -15% down on 2023 during April.
I'm sure things will pick up with a spell of decent weather but it's always a worry when the season starts off so slowly.
Certainly the weakest demand I've seen since we started up 20 years ago.
Fortunately we have no borrowings and our fixed costs are low.
Interest rates staying 'higher for longer' may be a real problem for some.
As you may remember we are in 'gardening' so are a similar "weather-dependent" business as your good self.
We're unfortunately seeing consumer demand down -30% in our sector.
We sell nationally across whole of UK.
Investment in new product development and wholesale sales have kept our trading figs 'just' -15% down on 2023 during April.
I'm sure things will pick up with a spell of decent weather but it's always a worry when the season starts off so slowly.
Certainly the weakest demand I've seen since we started up 20 years ago.
Fortunately we have no borrowings and our fixed costs are low.
Interest rates staying 'higher for longer' may be a real problem for some.
GardeningEcomm said:
Certainly the weakest demand I've seen since we started up 20 years ago.
Fortunately we have no borrowings and our fixed costs are low.
Interest rates staying 'higher for longer' may be a real problem for some.
I think the weather must be a big part of it... a lot of our sales have been Spa/Hot Tub products which generally are an all year round consumable., more so anyway than pool products. Fortunately we have no borrowings and our fixed costs are low.
Interest rates staying 'higher for longer' may be a real problem for some.
I've still got a big pile of summer algicide where people are late opening their pools up, it's just starting to go out where its normally end of March.
Hopefully it all picks up for you when the weather turns better.
I've a going concern in the gardening sector, online e commerce related.
Sales have been ok this year, roughly the same as last.
What makes it difficult to compare is reliance on search engine algorithms for traffic, and there has been a big one rolling out for the last 2 months.
But generally traffic up, sales consistent.
Sales have been ok this year, roughly the same as last.
What makes it difficult to compare is reliance on search engine algorithms for traffic, and there has been a big one rolling out for the last 2 months.
But generally traffic up, sales consistent.
Tonberry said:
I've a going concern in the gardening sector, online e commerce related.
Sales have been ok this year, roughly the same as last.
What makes it difficult to compare is reliance on search engine algorithms for traffic, and there has been a big one rolling out for the last 2 months.
But generally traffic up, sales consistent.
Did you get hit by the update (in terms of organic revenue not traffic)?Sales have been ok this year, roughly the same as last.
What makes it difficult to compare is reliance on search engine algorithms for traffic, and there has been a big one rolling out for the last 2 months.
But generally traffic up, sales consistent.
Google results are in the toilet now imo, first few pages are often a combination of low quality articles, irrelevant US sites, crappy ecommerce sites and bloody quora.
Tim Cognito said:
Did you get hit by the update (in terms of organic revenue not traffic)?
Google results are in the toilet now imo, first few pages are often a combination of low quality articles, irrelevant US sites, crappy ecommerce sites and bloody quora.
And they'll only get worse! Their latest "update" (money grab) supposedly took over two months. If you believe that bullsGoogle results are in the toilet now imo, first few pages are often a combination of low quality articles, irrelevant US sites, crappy ecommerce sites and bloody quora.
t you'll believe anything. Google is 100% about grabbing the money now. wkers.Tim Cognito said:
Did you get hit by the update (in terms of organic revenue not traffic)?
Google results are in the toilet now imo, first few pages are often a combination of low quality articles, irrelevant US sites, crappy ecommerce sites and bloody quora.
I don't seem to have been negatively affected by the update, and some days over the past couple of months have been my best ever for organic traffic.Google results are in the toilet now imo, first few pages are often a combination of low quality articles, irrelevant US sites, crappy ecommerce sites and bloody quora.
There's a lot of noise distorting the data but people are still buying cheap lawn mowers
Interesting chat here and also funnily enough we also sell online garden products, lawn mowers and the like.
It’s only a small percentage of our turnover, but It has not been a great start to the year for the obvious reasons listed above.
However, of more concern is margins and long term viability.
Gross margins are between 12-16 percent on average (need to double check but I believe this is the case)
Pricing feels like a dutch auction.
Normal gross margins in a brick and mortar shop for the same are 18-26 percent.
The thing is, the number of staff required to keep the listings up to date, pick and pack etc is considerable compared to what I had thought, and most of all we have been over spending with various pay per click and page rank things; I’m really quite worried about whether it’s going to stack up going forwards. Feels like a mugs game giving ever more money to google et al.
Like others, we did well during the pandemic, but now I wonder whether to focus on other areas of the business.
It’s only a small percentage of our turnover, but It has not been a great start to the year for the obvious reasons listed above.
However, of more concern is margins and long term viability.
Gross margins are between 12-16 percent on average (need to double check but I believe this is the case)
Pricing feels like a dutch auction.
Normal gross margins in a brick and mortar shop for the same are 18-26 percent.
The thing is, the number of staff required to keep the listings up to date, pick and pack etc is considerable compared to what I had thought, and most of all we have been over spending with various pay per click and page rank things; I’m really quite worried about whether it’s going to stack up going forwards. Feels like a mugs game giving ever more money to google et al.
Like others, we did well during the pandemic, but now I wonder whether to focus on other areas of the business.
urquattroGus said:
Interesting chat here and also funnily enough we also sell online garden products, lawn mowers and the like.
It’s only a small percentage of our turnover, but It has not been a great start to the year for the obvious reasons listed above.
However, of more concern is margins and long term viability.
Gross margins are between 12-16 percent on average (need to double check but I believe this is the case)
Pricing feels like a dutch auction.
Normal gross margins in a brick and mortar shop for the same are 18-26 percent.
The thing is, the number of staff required to keep the listings up to date, pick and pack etc is considerable compared to what I had thought, and most of all we have been over spending with various pay per click and page rank things; I’m really quite worried about whether it’s going to stack up going forwards. Feels like a mugs game giving ever more money to google et al.
Like others, we did well during the pandemic, but now I wonder whether to focus on other areas of the business.
DSLiverpool has some great perspectives on this problem. For my part, what I identified was that pay-per-click, affiliate, etc. were - if you're not careful - like crack cocaine: the first hit is great, subsequent hits not so great, and you end up paying more and more to try to chase the high. When everyone else gets there, too, and starts slashing prices, that's the margin gone.It’s only a small percentage of our turnover, but It has not been a great start to the year for the obvious reasons listed above.
However, of more concern is margins and long term viability.
Gross margins are between 12-16 percent on average (need to double check but I believe this is the case)
Pricing feels like a dutch auction.
Normal gross margins in a brick and mortar shop for the same are 18-26 percent.
The thing is, the number of staff required to keep the listings up to date, pick and pack etc is considerable compared to what I had thought, and most of all we have been over spending with various pay per click and page rank things; I’m really quite worried about whether it’s going to stack up going forwards. Feels like a mugs game giving ever more money to google et al.
Like others, we did well during the pandemic, but now I wonder whether to focus on other areas of the business.
As the old saying, in a gold rush, the only person guaranteed to make money is the person selling shovels. There are an awful lot of ecom shovel-sellers out there, promising great returns and collecting the money.
In some ways, this is all further evidence that the internet hasn't in fact changed business (but simply upsets it every so often). A great brand, with great products, great customer service, and so on still has legs. The problem with the internet is that every shop is on the same high street.
If you're buying to resell, managing your listings yourself (especially if your listing enrichment pipeline is manual), fulfilling yourself, and so on, you're trying hard to optimise a problem you have no hope of doing well at. There will always be somebody else who can sub out their listings to India, fulfil more cheaply, negotiate a better parcel rate, and so on.
As the Zurich ad said a few years ago, "what happens if your business model changes every four hours?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzF4hRD_NYQ - the players in the shifting commodities market are likely to be those with general purpose infrastructure, some limited domain expertise in each area, and a radically-optimised cost base suitable for competing for the tightest of margins.
But if you step away from that race to the bottom, and instead concentrate on the areas you can really add value to your customers, there's still profitable business out there to be had.
Mr Skwdenyer has a far more intelligent analysis than I could ever have.
CRO is step one, if your buckets leaking fix the hole don’t keep adding water.
I see it as if you’re selling anything others can buy to resell you’ll not be the one with the st calculator selling at a loss but someone will be.
You need a hero product to pull people to the site, this varies by sector but in my day I used discontinued Which? Best Buys as I’d be the only one advertising it and the traffic Which? generated was huge. Not sure that’s still a tactic but a mate in appliances still does it effectively.
You need great SEO, the methadone to PPC’s crack.
You need to develop your own brand and not call it your name, make yourself the U.K. distributor for Abel’s garden tools etc.
I find by not being intelligent i look at it far more directly however things still fail for all sorts of reasons.
Current wow projects are cocktail shakers, fertiliser and kitchen accessories all 3 are strong brands for generic products.
CRO is step one, if your buckets leaking fix the hole don’t keep adding water.
I see it as if you’re selling anything others can buy to resell you’ll not be the one with the s
t calculator selling at a loss but someone will be.You need a hero product to pull people to the site, this varies by sector but in my day I used discontinued Which? Best Buys as I’d be the only one advertising it and the traffic Which? generated was huge. Not sure that’s still a tactic but a mate in appliances still does it effectively.
You need great SEO, the methadone to PPC’s crack.
You need to develop your own brand and not call it your name, make yourself the U.K. distributor for Abel’s garden tools etc.
I find by not being intelligent i look at it far more directly however things still fail for all sorts of reasons.
Current wow projects are cocktail shakers, fertiliser and kitchen accessories all 3 are strong brands for generic products.
Puzzles said:
The PPC need to be monitored closely imo. You can quickly spend a chunky amount and if they aren’t repeat customers your margin comma take a hammering.
We used to be at the sort of spend where we'd have a Google ads account manager. The person would change once every month or so, but that actually worked out okay. One or two were extremely insughtful and candid. One manager told me that certain types of spend were going to chew through budget but would see you at the top of the page. In her opinion, on a limited budget, it was far better to be more targeted.In hindsight, now working with an external consultant who specialises in this, I can see exactly what the Google manager meant. Some Google spend is, at best 'top of funnnel stuff' and will get you zero purchases. On a long play, with budget available, it is not always a 'wrong' choice, but even so, the sky is the limit with PPC ads and you really need to manage it, or better yet have someone who knows how to.
In any mature market just look for the most expensive keywords. That generally tells you where the greatest value/intent is.
Used to spend about £250k a month with Google. Even at that level the account managers are just glorified reps targeted on increasing your spend and will trot out any old nonsense to get you to try their latest thing (usually automating whatever you do and useless for low data accounts).
Used to spend about £250k a month with Google. Even at that level the account managers are just glorified reps targeted on increasing your spend and will trot out any old nonsense to get you to try their latest thing (usually automating whatever you do and useless for low data accounts).
Forester1965 said:
In any mature market just look for the most expensive keywords. That generally tells you where the greatest value/intent is.
Used to spend about £250k a month with Google. Even at that level the account managers are just glorified reps targeted on increasing your spend and will trot out any old nonsense to get you to try their latest thing (usually automating whatever you do and useless for low data accounts).
Yes and no. I have had some incredibly bad advice on my accounts, but also - as I posted above - some very decent, fair and honest advice. Now I get none at all, as the threshold for managers shifted in the last year or so.Used to spend about £250k a month with Google. Even at that level the account managers are just glorified reps targeted on increasing your spend and will trot out any old nonsense to get you to try their latest thing (usually automating whatever you do and useless for low data accounts).
My summary though, would say that anyone in a small business, with a limited budget, needs to look closely at real revenue per click and the costs per click.
Out of interest what do you all target as an acceptable roas? As a general rule we've always targeted 10, with figures towards 5 acceptable for products with a higher repeat order rate.
This seems to be a good balance between getting good impression share and maintaining margins, but interested to hear if we are being too conservative!
This seems to be a good balance between getting good impression share and maintaining margins, but interested to hear if we are being too conservative!
The thing with the PPC is I find it hard to gauge how much is too much? Is there a rule of thumb or a percentage of sales to work to. We are going to reduce it down after the spring period. Some of my team have been completely blindsided by reports that say we have increase our sales by thousands of percent, of course my question is have we actually made any money/margin on those sales!
Some of them say we can’t reduce it but I have stamped my feet. Perhaps we started out agile on it and have now go lazy and addicted…
One of our areas of spend was on an agency/ai software to “make our money go further/more targeted”. Starting to feel embarrassed as I type this now…
Some of them say we can’t reduce it but I have stamped my feet. Perhaps we started out agile on it and have now go lazy and addicted…
One of our areas of spend was on an agency/ai software to “make our money go further/more targeted”. Starting to feel embarrassed as I type this now…
Edited by urquattroGus on Wednesday 8th May 09:32
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff