Return to office - your situation

[Welshbeef]

Jaguar99 said:

I know it’s Company policy rather than anything else but the hope is that if the Gov knocks masks on the head the Company will follow suit

Public transport (train tube bus and flights) I’d say are going to be mask requiring for some time to come.

The prospect of tube and train all packed getting into London is about as appealing as a kick in the balls.

[Doofus]

Welshbeef said:

The prospect of tube and train all packed getting into London is about as appealing as a kick in the balls.

'Twas ever thus.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

Jaguar99 said:

I know it’s Company policy rather than anything else but the hope is that if the Gov knocks masks on the head the Company will follow suit

Public transport (train tube bus and flights) I’d say are going to be mask requiring for some time to come.

The prospect of tube and train all packed getting into London is about as appealing as a kick in the balls.

I’m going to make a prediction that masks will be scrapped in June along with pretty much the last of the covid prevention measures.

[Countdown]

HappySilver said:

Welshbeef said:

HappySilver said:

I asked out of interest as I have heard that many companies, including some/all of the big 4 accountants, have recently stopped people doing any work from abroad apart from when on a legitimate business trip ie no logging in when on holiday or extended visits to family overseas splitting the time between work and vacation. They seem really worried that people carrying out any work in another jurisdiction will potentially create both the employee and employer tax liabilities. It sounds like a reaction to people heading off to live overseas during lockdown. I suppose it makes sense, we would all probably be a bit miffed if people were living and working in the UK but paying no tax here but it could stuff a lot of people with seconds homes etc (I hear there are a few pissed of partners at the aforementioned companies). It is interesting to hear real world examples of where companies have made this work, I’m glad you have taken proper advice to minimise risk.

Surely a practical solution to this for an employee who say wants to base out of Chamonix for the entire ski season simply needs a VPN & not broadcast the fact to his other work mates.
Fly back for any actually required meetings.

So your solution is to commit tax fraud in the country you are working in ??

The underlying problem is we have a state based tax system, every country wants their cut, but technology operates and we now think on a more global basis.

We’ve had one person relocate to France and one person to Portugal. One is permanently resident overseas so she gets paid gross (apart from NI), the other one has been advised that she would become liable for Portuguese income tax if she stays there for more than 6 months (and we’re deducting UK income tax from her pay as well).

We’ve had a couple of chats with our tax advisors and (afaics) there’s a risk for the Employee but not for the Employer (assuming they are solely UK based)

[Fat hippo]

Countdown said:

HappySilver said:

Welshbeef said:

HappySilver said:

I asked out of interest as I have heard that many companies, including some/all of the big 4 accountants, have recently stopped people doing any work from abroad apart from when on a legitimate business trip ie no logging in when on holiday or extended visits to family overseas splitting the time between work and vacation. They seem really worried that people carrying out any work in another jurisdiction will potentially create both the employee and employer tax liabilities. It sounds like a reaction to people heading off to live overseas during lockdown. I suppose it makes sense, we would all probably be a bit miffed if people were living and working in the UK but paying no tax here but it could stuff a lot of people with seconds homes etc (I hear there are a few pissed of partners at the aforementioned companies). It is interesting to hear real world examples of where companies have made this work, I’m glad you have taken proper advice to minimise risk.

Surely a practical solution to this for an employee who say wants to base out of Chamonix for the entire ski season simply needs a VPN & not broadcast the fact to his other work mates.
Fly back for any actually required meetings.

So your solution is to commit tax fraud in the country you are working in ??

The underlying problem is we have a state based tax system, every country wants their cut, but technology operates and we now think on a more global basis.

We’ve had one person relocate to France and one person to Portugal. One is permanently resident overseas so she gets paid gross (apart from NI), the other one has been advised that she would become liable for Portuguese income tax if she stays there for more than 6 months (and we’re deducting UK income tax from her pay as well).

We’ve had a couple of chats with our tax advisors and (afaics) there’s a risk for the Employee but not for the Employer (assuming they are solely UK based)

Assuming its just the plebs relocating overseas.
If decision making ie central management is done overseas because, say, the board of directors or the majority, were to wfh overseas, then there could be an issue for residence of the company as it could be deemed to be resident in the other country (by that country)

[Fat hippo]

I’m having to go to the park to meet up with the wider team.
At the park it is envisaged there will be activities that will enable us to have ‘fun’.
I’m not an advocate of enforced fun.
Although don’t mind having a chat with some of my colleagues face to face, i’m not desperate to see all the others

[mark seeker]

I used to WIO 3-4 days a week, personally I long for those days.

I miss the separation between the office and home, pre 2020, rarely would anyone put a call in before 8am or after 6pm, this has completely gone, people put calls in whenever they feel like it and take affront if you decline (oddly this isn't always senior management but it can be anyone).

From our team, there is definitely a mix of views, like some on here, some people have moved hours away from the office and have no plans to return, others have struggled and can't wait to be back 5 days a week. Most people I speak to at work want to return 1 or 2 days a week it seems.

The next year or 2 of this experiment will be interesting.

[rustyuk]

Working abroad whilst domiciled in the UK must be a legal nightmare.

Tax and export control laws on data for a start must surely be quite complicated.

What if a laptop gets stolen whilst abroad?

[Countdown]

rustyuk said:

Working abroad whilst domiciled in the UK must be a legal nightmare.

Tax and export control laws on data for a start must surely be quite complicated.

What if a laptop gets stolen whilst abroad?

For us all our data is stored on UK servers, there isn't any data stored on personal devices (as far as I'm aware). Also our IT Dept have the facility to wipe devices remotely (so i am led to believe, IANAITP)

[Deep Thought]

rustyuk said:

Working abroad whilst domiciled in the UK must be a legal nightmare.

Tax and export control laws on data for a start must surely be quite complicated.

What if a laptop gets stolen whilst abroad?

Any company laptop is almost certainly encrypted and password protected. Company data on the laptop would likely be limited to any local files.

Any policy for a company that i've worked for around a stolen / lost laptop is that you report it lost / stolen and they isolate it from any network drives / connections.

The company i work for, any data / systems we would be using would be cloud based anyway.

[loafer123]

Fat hippo said:

I’m having to go to the park to meet up with the wider team.
At the park it is envisaged there will be activities that will enable us to have ‘fun’.
I’m not an advocate of enforced fun.
Although don’t mind having a chat with some of my colleagues face to face, i’m not desperate to see all the others

Stewie Griffin?

[Bobajobbob]

City finance job here. Been working from home since last March with only sporadic ad hoc office visits and we had a record year financially last year. Have been advised that from June we are expected back 3 days and then back to ‘normal’ from sep. In my view that is a pretty short sighted and stupid decision by the inflexible dinosaurs in the exco. To ignore altogether the benefits of more flexible working is idiotic and will have a negative impact on productivity and staff happiness. If I’m forced back 5 days I’ll definitely be looking for a new job with more enlightened management.

At least in my line of work 2/3 days in the office for facetime with colleagues and junior training/socialising etc would be the best compromise in my opinion but with flexibility for those who prefer all in or all out at the discretion of line manager.

My biggest concern about returning to the office, beyond the commute, is the terrible technology that I’ll have to return to. I’ve become accustomed to my great home office tech now.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

That does seem pretty dim of your management. “We have had a record year, things are working really well. So obviously we are going to revert back to how we did things pre record year, which as an added bonus will disappoint our staff”.

[Fat hippo]

loafer123 said:

Fat hippo said:

I’m having to go to the park to meet up with the wider team.
At the park it is envisaged there will be activities that will enable us to have ‘fun’.
I’m not an advocate of enforced fun.
Although don’t mind having a chat with some of my colleagues face to face, i’m not desperate to see all the others

Stewie Griffin?

Peter?

[Sporky]

I want to hear Brian's thoughts on the topic.

[Countdown]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

That does seem pretty dim of your management. “We have had a record year, things are working really well. So obviously we are going to revert back to how we did things pre record year, which as an added bonus will disappoint our staff”.

To be fair the two things aren't necessarily connected. i.e. they might have had a record year but it could have been even better if all staff had been in the Office.

I'm just guessing but Management don't tend to make obviously stupid decisions........I think Goldman Sachs are one of the ones stipulating that everybody goes back to the Office so it may well be that the "office" works for some people.

[Fat hippo]

Countdown said:

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

That does seem pretty dim of your management. “We have had a record year, things are working really well. So obviously we are going to revert back to how we did things pre record year, which as an added bonus will disappoint our staff”.

To be fair the two things aren't necessarily connected. i.e. they might have had a record year but it could have been even better if all staff had been in the Office.

I'm just guessing but Management don't tend to make obviously stupid decisions........I think Goldman Sachs are one of the ones stipulating that everybody goes back to the Office so it may well be that the "office" works for some people.

It will be interesting if they still manage to attract the best staff going forwards. When I graduated in 1999 investment banking was the number one choice but these days its tech or fintech
I reckon pretty soon it will be a very antiquated idea of having to work full time in an office. Not sure the millenials would buy into that

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Countdown said:

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

That does seem pretty dim of your management. “We have had a record year, things are working really well. So obviously we are going to revert back to how we did things pre record year, which as an added bonus will disappoint our staff”.

To be fair the two things aren't necessarily connected. i.e. they might have had a record year but it could have been even better if all staff had been in the Office.

I'm just guessing but Management don't tend to make obviously stupid decisions........I think Goldman Sachs are one of the ones stipulating that everybody goes back to the Office so it may well be that the "office" works for some people.

That’s a fair point.

[Sporky]

Countdown said:

it may well be that the "office" works for some people.

It works for extraverts. Sadly they're both the majority, and, in general, incapable of understanding introverts.

[Electro1980]

Sporky said:

It works for extraverts. Sadly they're both the majority, and, in general, incapable of understanding introverts.

I don’t think they are the majority, they are just loudest and often over represented in senior management.

Incapable of being able to understand others, however, is a widely held trait and most people don’t seem to ah e been able to get past “everyone thinks like me”.