Return to office - your situation
Discussion
MOMACC said:
The only concern is developing young staff as they're missing out on learning from the experienced staff, listening in on conversations, just asking a question etc.
This is going to be a much bigger issue than I think many people give credit to. Informal interactions are especially for young/junior staff, both for learning and career development, as is learning how the world of work works. The other element that people often overlook is that younger staff members often don’t have good home working spaces.The other element people forget when they talk about the idea that people can work from anywhere is time zones. From experience working with teams in APAC, EU, US, and all combined, anything more than a couple of hours offset becomes a PITA if it’s long term. The guy in a far flung place won’t want to always work UK time (even if that’s where the majority of the team is), the UK employees won’t want to always time shift to accommodate them, and “sharing the pain” just messes everyone around. Sure you can schedule the odd meeting out of normal hours but you lose the ability to just pick up the phone during the working day and resolve issues quickly.
We're in the process of shutting our office and selling off all the furniture and contents. We're pretty much WFH full time now with just a company get-together a few times a year renting office space on an ad-hoc basis.
Somebody mentioned new and young starters and that's a very valid point. Just hearing and watching other peoples interactions can be very useful in developing soft skills and how the working environment ticks. I even like overhearing discussions from other teams to understand what they do and the problems they deal with even if they don't directly affect my own work.
Somebody mentioned new and young starters and that's a very valid point. Just hearing and watching other peoples interactions can be very useful in developing soft skills and how the working environment ticks. I even like overhearing discussions from other teams to understand what they do and the problems they deal with even if they don't directly affect my own work.
Waiting to hear what the official line will be. Most people have been working OK at home. There were a small number who really struggled and they have been back in the office since last summer (head office is probably at 20-25% occupancy due to this but remote branch offices are mostly still empty).
The head honcho is quite big on presenteeism and actually started asking people to come back to the office last May, not for any compelling business reason but “...to return to some sort of normality”. He was told by all those asked that it was against Gov guidelines and too soon. He hasn’t asked again (yet).
For me desk space in the office isn’t an issue as I have my own office and the commute is a 20 min drive so not a big deal either. Likewise, at home I have an office, have no kids and my wife doesn’t work so not an issue either and I have worked at home ad hoc for 20 years or more.
However, I do miss the complete separation of work and not work which has definitely blurred, I find myself not using my home office for much other than work as going in there fells like work now, my wife cops it when I have had a bad day or an annoying call and I do miss actual interaction with people in person. A change of scenery would also be nice...
In short, I am looking to go back to ad hoc WFH or maybe a day a week or so but otherwise will be quite OK going back to the office. Will be interesting to see what the policy actually is though as a lot of people in the business have no interest in going back but, as I said, the boss is one for presenteeism....
The head honcho is quite big on presenteeism and actually started asking people to come back to the office last May, not for any compelling business reason but “...to return to some sort of normality”. He was told by all those asked that it was against Gov guidelines and too soon. He hasn’t asked again (yet).
For me desk space in the office isn’t an issue as I have my own office and the commute is a 20 min drive so not a big deal either. Likewise, at home I have an office, have no kids and my wife doesn’t work so not an issue either and I have worked at home ad hoc for 20 years or more.
However, I do miss the complete separation of work and not work which has definitely blurred, I find myself not using my home office for much other than work as going in there fells like work now, my wife cops it when I have had a bad day or an annoying call and I do miss actual interaction with people in person. A change of scenery would also be nice...
In short, I am looking to go back to ad hoc WFH or maybe a day a week or so but otherwise will be quite OK going back to the office. Will be interesting to see what the policy actually is though as a lot of people in the business have no interest in going back but, as I said, the boss is one for presenteeism....
I’ve been going to the office 1 or 2 days a week since the first lockdown.
We have a couple of teams that have worked in the office all the way through the pandemic,
They have taken over an entire floor of the building, so that the can be socially distanced.
To facilitate this an email went out saying everyone else should work from home, but if they needed to be in the office they would have to obtain management consent and give 3 hours notice for approval.
It’s worked very well, for some.
For others, it has placed them under considerable mental stress.
At the beginning of the pandemic all our customer service staff were sent home with their desktop computers. They have now all been issued with laptops, I suspect to enable a hybrid working model.
As an aside, I got a Computer disposal firm in last month to get rid of old kit, and the bloke who came said 90% of their jobs at the moment were offices being closed due to home working.
We’ve been looking at closing some offices, downsizing space. Home working is here to stay.
We have a couple of teams that have worked in the office all the way through the pandemic,
They have taken over an entire floor of the building, so that the can be socially distanced.
To facilitate this an email went out saying everyone else should work from home, but if they needed to be in the office they would have to obtain management consent and give 3 hours notice for approval.
It’s worked very well, for some.
For others, it has placed them under considerable mental stress.
At the beginning of the pandemic all our customer service staff were sent home with their desktop computers. They have now all been issued with laptops, I suspect to enable a hybrid working model.
As an aside, I got a Computer disposal firm in last month to get rid of old kit, and the bloke who came said 90% of their jobs at the moment were offices being closed due to home working.
We’ve been looking at closing some offices, downsizing space. Home working is here to stay.
No absolute decision yet for the one family member who doesn't normally wfh, rumour mill has it will be a hybrid version which will really p
s off the local director who is absolutely dyed in the wool institutional presenteeism advocate. However it seems the hybrid version will go ahead as it cures a serious pressure on parking spaces and helps the mission to stop staff travelling to work in their cars.
Who knows where will actually end up, haven't got the patience to type out some of the utterly brain dead arrangements that have been imposed over the last year or so. At times it truly beggared belief.
s off the local director who is absolutely dyed in the wool institutional presenteeism advocate. However it seems the hybrid version will go ahead as it cures a serious pressure on parking spaces and helps the mission to stop staff travelling to work in their cars.Who knows where will actually end up, haven't got the patience to type out some of the utterly brain dead arrangements that have been imposed over the last year or so. At times it truly beggared belief.
We are having a meeting today to discuss increasing office presence.
I only work 3 days a week and currently plan to be in for 1 or 2 of those days. It doesn't bother me at all as I only live 5 minutes away.
Some of my colleagues live a 2 hour commute away and were hoping for near enough full time working from home with attendance in person only being required for specific events.
I only work 3 days a week and currently plan to be in for 1 or 2 of those days. It doesn't bother me at all as I only live 5 minutes away.
Some of my colleagues live a 2 hour commute away and were hoping for near enough full time working from home with attendance in person only being required for specific events.
Halmyre said:
My employer has embraced the WFH culture, but how long that will last I don't know. They've had a purge on 'personal' desk space, so if I ever want (aye, right) or need to go into the office it'll be on a hot desk basis. If I never see the place again I won't be shedding tears.
I remember when hot desking started appearing in a couple of the places I was working in around 10 years ago and everyone was absolutely up in arms. People get really possessive and territorial over their desk space.I don’t mind it to be honest. I’m a consultant so whatever fits in my bag is my entire ‘office’ anyway
As you can imagine, I go in a few different offices, and purely from an aesthetics point of view as a visitor to that office, hot desk offices are so much more visually appealing. You just have rows of neat, clean, tidy, desks and monitors. Rather than desks and monitors absolutely covered in tat, stickers, piles of paperwork, photographs stuck everywhere, fridge magnets from Benidorm, pictures of Garfield with ‘I hate Mondays’ on them, and so on.
That’s before we even get to the piles of rubbish that people keep under their desks, or beside their desks.
Some of the best offices I have seen (in my humble opinion) have a hot desk/clean desk policy, but have a discreet bank of lockers in a separate area, so that staff can keep spare shoes, spare coats, bags, and whatever other personal items they might like to leave at work for various reasons.
I'm starting a new job that will be office based. It's in manufacturing so it's useful to be on site, to see how things are coming along. I'm looking forward to it. A little 25 min commute of me-time, chance to get to know my co-workers and I don't have to give up a room in my house to my employer.
If it would be possible to do the odd day at home every week or so, I'd not mind. But I wouldn't want to be full-time WFH again.
If it would be possible to do the odd day at home every week or so, I'd not mind. But I wouldn't want to be full-time WFH again.
I don't think it's a one size fits all, in examples like manufacturing, there is an obvious case to be made for being on or close to the shop floor. Creative stuff is likely to work better face to face as is learning/workshop/collaborative design type sessions. This morning I've already dealt with customers in Greece and South Africa and this afternoon I'm involved in a project kick off with a customer in Italy.
As nice as it would be to take a trip to those places the cost in time and transport plus the delays introduced make this much more efficient. I've done a week of face to face meetings in a day.
As nice as it would be to take a trip to those places the cost in time and transport plus the delays introduced make this much more efficient. I've done a week of face to face meetings in a day.
I worked in the creative industry for over 20 years as an agency graphic designer then creative director. The number of times I experienced spontaneous creative and collaborative ideation sessions during that time was precisely ermmmm zero.
The creative process is a lot like chronic constipation. It's a difficult process that fills you with dread and you don't really want people there to witness the pain you will need to endure to get it out.
Its only senior managers that seem to think spontaneous world changing ideas are being scribbled on the walls of offices every day.
The creative process is a lot like chronic constipation. It's a difficult process that fills you with dread and you don't really want people there to witness the pain you will need to endure to get it out.
Its only senior managers that seem to think spontaneous world changing ideas are being scribbled on the walls of offices every day.
I popped into the office the other day.
Points
Commute & logging in off packing away etc actually totalled 2.5 hours (I specifically timed it to see).
Then one of the two people I’d arranged to meet face to face one of his kids was sick so he had to stay at home.
Then a plethora of Zooms in the office - as it turned out the meeting rooms were occupied so I was in the open office trying to have a zoom meeting with others in the office on calls etc. Frankly made it impossible - I’m not sure how hybrid working can work with teams who are remote and attempting to align schedules it’s going to be much harder than people think IMHO.
Another thing being in the office having “chats” ad hoc meetings etc come back to laptop seeing rafts of emails and actual chases for responses to emails sent in a relatively short time. People expecting instant response are going to have to change their expectations. Likewise had a call just as I’d left the office urgently need this piece of work- sorry I’m on the motorway it’s a good hour before I get home and tonight I’m not going straight home I’m away with one of the kids at Rugby training.
I did flag had I been at home over the wasted travel in it wouldn’t be an issue.
Points
Commute & logging in off packing away etc actually totalled 2.5 hours (I specifically timed it to see).
Then one of the two people I’d arranged to meet face to face one of his kids was sick so he had to stay at home.
Then a plethora of Zooms in the office - as it turned out the meeting rooms were occupied so I was in the open office trying to have a zoom meeting with others in the office on calls etc. Frankly made it impossible - I’m not sure how hybrid working can work with teams who are remote and attempting to align schedules it’s going to be much harder than people think IMHO.
Another thing being in the office having “chats” ad hoc meetings etc come back to laptop seeing rafts of emails and actual chases for responses to emails sent in a relatively short time. People expecting instant response are going to have to change their expectations. Likewise had a call just as I’d left the office urgently need this piece of work- sorry I’m on the motorway it’s a good hour before I get home and tonight I’m not going straight home I’m away with one of the kids at Rugby training.
I did flag had I been at home over the wasted travel in it wouldn’t be an issue.
Waiting to hear waht the official line will be. My concern is, if they haven't already made a decision it's becuase they want people in 4 or 5 days a week.
After 17 years of a 2.5 hour door-to-ddor commute I think I've done my time, to the point that if they insist on 4 days a week I'll reluctantly dust off the CV.
After 17 years of a 2.5 hour door-to-ddor commute I think I've done my time, to the point that if they insist on 4 days a week I'll reluctantly dust off the CV.
I'd long asked myself why I often commuted to an office (1.25 hrs) to sit at a workstation all day on calls or just working. Have been far more productive at home but I would be happy to go in if needed - although can only imagine that will be for UK team face to face meetings.
A point made by our senior management around the future was that we can't just have people coming in on days other than Mondays and Fridays as there won't be enough desk space.
A point made by our senior management around the future was that we can't just have people coming in on days other than Mondays and Fridays as there won't be enough desk space.
Out of curiosity, how do people feel about public transport (train / tube) commutes without having had a jab / after 1 jab?
Literally just had word that we are expected to be in the office 2 times a week from 21 June, moving up to 3 days a week (time unspecified) and there is no longer term view yet - they are "working through the details"
Literally just had word that we are expected to be in the office 2 times a week from 21 June, moving up to 3 days a week (time unspecified) and there is no longer term view yet - they are "working through the details"
Senior Management is fully bought in to the 'test, test, test!!' Govt narrative right now, with exhortations that we must all comply to get back to 'normal'.
They are saying it will be masks in the office apart from when sitting at your desk, and no sitting near to that person to speak to them...
So far I have not met a single person I am working with since starting the role. I have been into the office once, to collect some IT kit, and it was a ghost ship - like late-afternoon-on-a-sunny-Friday-in-July quiet.
If Govt declare Vaccine Passports are to become required for entry into all public spaces (I expect the project end date will be just before June 21st, I imagine - no other reason why we've not unlocked already, given the near-zero prevalence, other than to drag things out and remove risk of people getting used to normal life without them) or that a negative test is the only other viable 'permission slip' (see: trial events already taking place) then I won't be going into the office ever, other than to meet someone at a cafe with outdoor seating.
The other option would be for people to start having meetings at each other's houses - why not take it in turns to spend the same amount on petrol but save on parking costs and enjoy a nice social chat at the same time?
TL;DR - I don't foresee a return to the office for several months, and if they enforce 'guilty until proven innocent' testing, I won't be going in unless I am at risk of losing my job.
They are saying it will be masks in the office apart from when sitting at your desk, and no sitting near to that person to speak to them...
So far I have not met a single person I am working with since starting the role. I have been into the office once, to collect some IT kit, and it was a ghost ship - like late-afternoon-on-a-sunny-Friday-in-July quiet.
If Govt declare Vaccine Passports are to become required for entry into all public spaces (I expect the project end date will be just before June 21st, I imagine - no other reason why we've not unlocked already, given the near-zero prevalence, other than to drag things out and remove risk of people getting used to normal life without them) or that a negative test is the only other viable 'permission slip' (see: trial events already taking place) then I won't be going into the office ever, other than to meet someone at a cafe with outdoor seating.
The other option would be for people to start having meetings at each other's houses - why not take it in turns to spend the same amount on petrol but save on parking costs and enjoy a nice social chat at the same time?
TL;DR - I don't foresee a return to the office for several months, and if they enforce 'guilty until proven innocent' testing, I won't be going in unless I am at risk of losing my job.
crofty1984 said:
... and I don't have to give up a room in my house to my employer.
That got me thinking.I don't have the luxury of a spare room so initially the dining room was given up as my work space. That proved tricky with the kids home schooling so I set up in a corner of the bedroom. Built a desk I can fold away on Friday and store out of sight. It's working well.
For me it's a small sacrifice compared to 2hrs per day, 40hrs per month, that's almost 2 full days (more if they have faults, which are a regular occurrence) sat (more likely standing with someone else breathing right in my face) on trains. Not to mention the money I have to pay for the privilege.
The commute money could probably go to a bigger house. Or better yet a bigger garage with space for another car and a small office.
nunpuncher said:
crofty1984 said:
... and I don't have to give up a room in my house to my employer.
That got me thinking.I don't have the luxury of a spare room so initially the dining room was given up as my work space. That proved tricky with the kids home schooling so I set up in a corner of the bedroom. Built a desk I can fold away on Friday and store out of sight. It's working well.
For me it's a small sacrifice compared to 2hrs per day, 40hrs per month, that's almost 2 full days (more if they have faults, which are a regular occurrence) sat (more likely standing with someone else breathing right in my face) on trains. Not to mention the money I have to pay for the privilege.
The commute money could probably go to a bigger house. Or better yet a bigger garage with space for another car and a small office.
I commute into London which costs £4000 per year so the change to my monthly income for last 12 months is noticeable.
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