Discussion
Does anybody with a small business use Sage?
I currently run my business ( 2 employees, Vatable, 200 invoices a year, all cheques in payment,no cash involved, payroll with minor PAYE using HMRC CD)on Excel and deliver the Excel files to my accountant each year.
Does Sage make it any easier/cheaper?
Sage is pretty good - if you are pretty hot on double entry book-keeping.
Qucikbooks is probably better for the "lay" person.
However, I always think that true double entry accruals based accountancy and book-keeping packages always work best when the user has at least some basic understanding of the principles of double entry book-keeping (i.e what "debits", "credits", "journals" and all those other escoteric accountancy terms really mean).
Qucikbooks is probably better for the "lay" person.
However, I always think that true double entry accruals based accountancy and book-keeping packages always work best when the user has at least some basic understanding of the principles of double entry book-keeping (i.e what "debits", "credits", "journals" and all those other escoteric accountancy terms really mean).
At the moment I just keep an Excel list of invoices (date, amounts net/gross, VAT) date paid and the VAT quarter accounted in) cheques (date, purpose, payeee amount) and then a monthly sheet of expenses, with sections for employee costs, cleaning and maintainance, admin, travel/subsitence, vehicles and capital expenditure which calculates the VAT I have to reclaim.
Works quite well but I feel the need to be 'technical' in the hope it will reduce my accountants bills.
Works quite well but I feel the need to be 'technical' in the hope it will reduce my accountants bills.
Ha Ha 
Not actually being funny, but accountants are very unlikely to reduce their fees because you have presented them with an apparently nicely balanced set of accounts.
They will still have to do their normal "review and correction" work plus the "extras" that you would expect from them. Providing them with decent Excel workings will probablt be almost as good.
Not actually being funny, but accountants are very unlikely to reduce their fees because you have presented them with an apparently nicely balanced set of accounts.
They will still have to do their normal "review and correction" work plus the "extras" that you would expect from them. Providing them with decent Excel workings will probablt be almost as good.
Broccers said:
Sage Line 50 is good enough for us. Not the most user friendly kit tho but being designed by a business forms company (dataform) hardly surprising.
That's where Eric Mc's comment about double entry book-keeping knowledge comes in. A basic understanding of debits and credits helps ENORMOUSLY when you post things to the wrong place and bugger it up.
I would say, given your size, that it is not worth switching to Sage.
There is the possibility of making some saving on your accountancy bill, but if you maintain neat spreadsheet records not much of one.
If I were you I would stick with the spreadsheets and if you do buy an accountancy package make sure you do some training in it otherwise things can go very wrong.
There is the possibility of making some saving on your accountancy bill, but if you maintain neat spreadsheet records not much of one.
If I were you I would stick with the spreadsheets and if you do buy an accountancy package make sure you do some training in it otherwise things can go very wrong.
Eric Mc said:
Ha Ha
Not actually being funny, but accountants are very unlikely to reduce their fees because you have presented them with an apparently nicely balanced set of accounts.
They will still have to do their normal "review and correction" work plus the "extras" that you would expect from them. Providing them with decent Excel workings will probablt be almost as good.
I thought not.
Plotloss said:
Another vote for Quickbooks.
Everywhere that I've worked that uses Sage has a Sage trained specialist punching the keys.
Not at all neccesary with Quickbooks.
QuickBooks is for fine for small business; but as an accountant and an auditor, I prefer Sage. Medium sized businesses and upwards are also better off using it.
Quite possibly but the question here has been framed for small businesses.
Sage is a good product but has an element of complexity that comes with its capability. It could just be too capable for small business.
Which is also why one wouldnt recommened something like Hoskyns for example.
Sage is a good product but has an element of complexity that comes with its capability. It could just be too capable for small business.
Which is also why one wouldnt recommened something like Hoskyns for example.
Jaglover said:
Medium sized businesses and upwards are also better off using it.
I would hope a company with a 6 - 22 million turnover would be choosing a Business system based on more criteria than how good their accountant thinks it is. Sage is great for some businesses but absoloutley dire for others.
plasticpig said:
Medium sized businesses and upwards are also better off using it.
I would hope a company with a 6 - 22 million turnover would be choosing a Business system based on more criteria than how good their accountant thinks it is. Sage is great for some businesses but absoloutley dire for others.
I would define medium sized as starting a bit lower than 6 Million T/o (I was not using the formal Ltd company rules)
I have one client who Sage is unsuitable for due to the fact that the stock control system on Sage is not sufficient for their needs (as a wholesaler).
As for the basis on which you should choose your accounting system & software, a good accountant will tailor their recommendation to your business, not only on what is best for them.
Accountant's charge on a time basis, if it takes us a day more to prepare the accounts that's an extra £500 at least for the client to pay. Which makes the saving of choosing Dosh say over Sage suddenly less attractive.
Jaglover said:
Accountant's charge on a time basis, if it takes us a day more to prepare the accounts that's an extra £500 at least for the client to pay. Which makes the saving of choosing Dosh say over Sage suddenly less attractive.
I will declare a vested intrest here in that my company develops and sells integrated business solutions to the SME sector including accounts module's.
In my experience the actual accounts module is very low on the list of priorities for most businesses and there are very few savings to be had. There are far more savings in business software assisting in the sreamlining of businesses processes. A day more to prepare the accounts is nothing if a business can reduce the number of staff they employ and maintain the same effectiveness or indeed increase their effectivness.
plasticpig said:
Accountant's charge on a time basis, if it takes us a day more to prepare the accounts that's an extra £500 at least for the client to pay. Which makes the saving of choosing Dosh say over Sage suddenly less attractive.
I will declare a vested intrest here in that my company develops and sells integrated business solutions to the SME sector including accounts module's.
In my experience the actual accounts module is very low on the list of priorities for most businesses and there are very few savings to be had. There are far more savings in business software assisting in the sreamlining of businesses processes. A day more to prepare the accounts is nothing if a business can reduce the number of staff they employ and maintain the same effectiveness or indeed increase their effectivness.
Met my accountant today who is offering me a software package free, as they have a licence for 50 copies and for some 'simplier' business accounts it will make their life easier when drawing up the accounts. No reduction in fees! It does the VAT etc I am told. They have suggested I give it a try and if I don't get on with it then we will revert to my Excel version.
Successful day all told. They reduced my corporation tax by £1500 from my own calculations, sorted out a VAT problem and highlighted a sigfnificant sum in the directors loan account I can take out. They put me right on a few areas where I was a bit close to the wind and played devils advocate in one area where the HMRC are giving other cient some stick. Who said accountants were boring?
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