Cancelling order with a window company
Discussion
In October I ordered a patio door and paid £169 deposit.
In January we decided we no longer wanted the work done.
Fitment Is scheduled for March.
Whan I contacted the compant I was told I had a 7 day window to cancel the order when I first placed the order in October.
I have been told that I cannot cancel my order.
This sounds like an unfair contract, but I guess because I agreed to T and C when I ordered I'm like a kipper.
Help?!
In January we decided we no longer wanted the work done.
Fitment Is scheduled for March.
Whan I contacted the compant I was told I had a 7 day window to cancel the order when I first placed the order in October.
I have been told that I cannot cancel my order.
This sounds like an unfair contract, but I guess because I agreed to T and C when I ordered I'm like a kipper.
Help?!
exactly, the deposit should cover all admin costs etc up to the point in making it. I would have thought that if they havent made it yet then you shouldnt have a problem although these type of companies moan like hell if ou want to cancel within the 7 days anyway! Even if they have made it, if it is a standard size etc then dont see why they cant just sell it to someone else. Really depends on the wording of the contract, although if you cant cancel why wouldn't you have had to pay all of it up front..
It isn't an unfair contract just because the company wants you to keep your side of it.
If you agreed the goods, price and delivery, signed up and paid the deposit, the company is not being unreasonable to expect you to complete the contract by paying for the goods when they are delivered and/or fitted in accordance with the terms of the deal.
Whether they decide that it is worth insisting on completion, or to come to an arrangement with you about cancellation, is down to their judgement on the matter as they see it.
Just because you have changed your mind, doesn't mean the contract is unfair.
If you agreed the goods, price and delivery, signed up and paid the deposit, the company is not being unreasonable to expect you to complete the contract by paying for the goods when they are delivered and/or fitted in accordance with the terms of the deal.
Whether they decide that it is worth insisting on completion, or to come to an arrangement with you about cancellation, is down to their judgement on the matter as they see it.
Just because you have changed your mind, doesn't mean the contract is unfair.
Paul Drawmer said:
It isn't an unfair contract just because the company wants you to keep your side of it.
If you agreed the goods, price and delivery, signed up and paid the deposit, the company is not being unreasonable to expect you to complete the contract by paying for the goods when they are delivered and/or fitted in accordance with the terms of the deal.
Whether they decide that it is worth insisting on completion, or to come to an arrangement with you about cancellation, is down to their judgement on the matter as they see it.
Just because you have changed your mind, doesn't mean the contract is unfair.
If you agreed the goods, price and delivery, signed up and paid the deposit, the company is not being unreasonable to expect you to complete the contract by paying for the goods when they are delivered and/or fitted in accordance with the terms of the deal.
Whether they decide that it is worth insisting on completion, or to come to an arrangement with you about cancellation, is down to their judgement on the matter as they see it.
Just because you have changed your mind, doesn't mean the contract is unfair.
Maybe worth offering them another£50-£100 to release you from the terms of the contract and put it down to experience...
Presumably they have been up to your house and measured up etc, which has cost them their time etc...
MitchT said:
I would have thought that the whole point of requiring a desposit was to increase the likelihood of you seeing the order through. If they could legally force you to complete then surely they wouldn't need to ask for a deposit to put people off backing out.
The window company are well within their rights to enforce the contract. If you pull out you are breaching that conract, your deposit will simply be used to finance (short term) the County Court Summons that will be dropping through your door.
If you do not inform them within the "cooling off period" usually 14 days that you have changed your mind you are basically stuffed.
jamesuk28 said:
MitchT said:
I would have thought that the whole point of requiring a desposit was to increase the likelihood of you seeing the order through. If they could legally force you to complete then surely they wouldn't need to ask for a deposit to put people off backing out.
The window company are well within their rights to enforce the contract. If you pull out you are breaching that conract, your deposit will simply be used to finance (short term) the County Court Summons that will be dropping through your door.
If you do not inform them within the "cooling off period" usually 14 days that you have changed your mind you are basically stuffed.
Agreed.
The legal situation is this. You have a contract for them to fit the door. If they breached the contract you would be entitled to sue for damages. If you breached the contract then they would be entitled to sue for damages. Simple as that.
In contract law if a contract is breached the other party is entitled to have the financial cost of the breach recompensed.
Whether the deposit is £100 or £1000 this is technically irrelevant except that in practice as the company is in posession of your money this means that they would not have to go to the trouble to sue you for it...
Similarly it of course ensured that only serious orders are placed and covers costs should the order be cancelled. It also of course is a financial 'hook' for you to stay in the deal as the assumption is that you would lose your deposit. Of course that is the whole point of the deposit itself.
So in practical terms you are stuffed. You could try to sue them for the amounts paid, and would win, but it would be a hollow victory as they would counterclaim for the true cost of the breach. If it is a 'standard fit' door, and they hadnt ordered it yet, or even if they bought the stock and still have it, the true cost is likely to be small. However if they have asked an external company to custom make the door, and they are contractually liable to pay for it then it may even be that their true loss is greater than the deposit.
What will most likely happen is they wont give the money back, and then the ball will be in your court for the next step!
Legally I think most of the points have been covered and basically you do not have a leg to stand on.
If I were you I would have a talk to them and find out if they have made the door. If they have, then unfortunately there is no such thing as a "standard size" and they will probably pursue you for costs incurred.
More often than not they will not be making the doors themselves, so will have incurred costs greater than the £169 deposit. If this is the case then you can either bite the bullet, and have it fitted, do a deal to pay them off, or buy the door on a supply only basis and see if you can sell it on Ebay.
Alternatively if the door has not yet been made then you could offer them a nominal sum to settle or just walk away. I suspect that most companies will be happy that their costs have been covered by the deposit and you would hear no more.
Either way they will be much happier to do some sort of deal than pursue it through the courts.
If I were you I would have a talk to them and find out if they have made the door. If they have, then unfortunately there is no such thing as a "standard size" and they will probably pursue you for costs incurred.
More often than not they will not be making the doors themselves, so will have incurred costs greater than the £169 deposit. If this is the case then you can either bite the bullet, and have it fitted, do a deal to pay them off, or buy the door on a supply only basis and see if you can sell it on Ebay.
Alternatively if the door has not yet been made then you could offer them a nominal sum to settle or just walk away. I suspect that most companies will be happy that their costs have been covered by the deposit and you would hear no more.
Either way they will be much happier to do some sort of deal than pursue it through the courts.
SKR said:
Legally I think most of the points have been covered and basically you do not have a leg to stand on.
If I were you I would have a talk to them and find out if they have made the door. If they have, then unfortunately there is no such thing as a "standard size" and they will probably pursue you for costs incurred.
More often than not they will not be making the doors themselves, so will have incurred costs greater than the £169 deposit. If this is the case then you can either bite the bullet, and have it fitted, do a deal to pay them off, or buy the door on a supply only basis and see if you can sell it on Ebay.
Alternatively if the door has not yet been made then you could offer them a nominal sum to settle or just walk away. I suspect that most companies will be happy that their costs have been covered by the deposit and you would hear no more.
Either way they will be much happier to do some sort of deal than pursue it through the courts.
If I were you I would have a talk to them and find out if they have made the door. If they have, then unfortunately there is no such thing as a "standard size" and they will probably pursue you for costs incurred.
More often than not they will not be making the doors themselves, so will have incurred costs greater than the £169 deposit. If this is the case then you can either bite the bullet, and have it fitted, do a deal to pay them off, or buy the door on a supply only basis and see if you can sell it on Ebay.
Alternatively if the door has not yet been made then you could offer them a nominal sum to settle or just walk away. I suspect that most companies will be happy that their costs have been covered by the deposit and you would hear no more.
Either way they will be much happier to do some sort of deal than pursue it through the courts.
I agree. Thats a good way forward.
I believe that in such a situation if it got that far I would argue (for either side) that the deposit was based on good faith that it was an estimate of 'liquidated' damages, and that is why it was set at that figure. i.e. the company set the deposit at £169 to cover their costs. In court I think this would be a pertinent point.
I would say that the chances of the company giving the money back are next to none. I would suggest that if there is something else they could offer to in effect move the order to may be a better scenario than writing the money off.
Failing that I would ask if the door had been made yet. If it has not, then you would be in a good position to ask for a good proportion of the money back (legally) but whether you would get it is another matter. If it has been made, then escaping while paying 'just' the deposit would be the aim.
Let get away from the idea of 'door' it infers a front domestic door.
It is a French Patio door unit which will be made to measure.
I am not trying to get the deposit back just hoping to stop any further loss.
This is why I beleive it is reasonable to end the contract here ort at least negotiate a release fee. I have another £1500 to pay for the completed fitment.
I just want to end the process and not have to lose another grand or so.
I accept that I may have to pay a release fee.
I will get a copy of my contract and post it
Thanks for your words
It is a French Patio door unit which will be made to measure.
I am not trying to get the deposit back just hoping to stop any further loss.
This is why I beleive it is reasonable to end the contract here ort at least negotiate a release fee. I have another £1500 to pay for the completed fitment.
I just want to end the process and not have to lose another grand or so.
I accept that I may have to pay a release fee.
I will get a copy of my contract and post it
Thanks for your words
if the door is made to measure and already made and u want to cancel within a few weeks of installation, tends to suggest it is already made. most companies like to have it made before they need to fit, just in case there are any problems., if you found a cheaper deal, you might end up having to pay for both of them
out of interest, why did u want to cancel ?
out of interest, why did u want to cancel ?
It's highly unlikely that the company would be able to persuade a court to order specific performance i.e. to make you allow them to complete the contract.
Instead, their remedy would be a claim in damages. The measure of the loss is not the total value of the contract but the profit element that they would have made had they been able to complete it. I have no idea what profit margin they work to but even if we assume it's, say, 25%, that still only amounts to a few hundred quid.
I'd guess they don't want to have to go to the time and hassle of issuing county court proceedings any more than you want to have to defend them. Tell them you'll forfeit your deposit and let them decide whether to take it further. If they won't let it drop, offer them a bit more to settle it on commercial terms.
Instead, their remedy would be a claim in damages. The measure of the loss is not the total value of the contract but the profit element that they would have made had they been able to complete it. I have no idea what profit margin they work to but even if we assume it's, say, 25%, that still only amounts to a few hundred quid.
I'd guess they don't want to have to go to the time and hassle of issuing county court proceedings any more than you want to have to defend them. Tell them you'll forfeit your deposit and let them decide whether to take it further. If they won't let it drop, offer them a bit more to settle it on commercial terms.
Lurking Lawyer said:
It's highly unlikely that the company would be able to persuade a court to order specific performance i.e. to make you allow them to complete the contract.
Instead, their remedy would be a claim in damages. The measure of the loss is not the total value of the contract but the profit element that they would have made had they been able to complete it. I have no idea what profit margin they work to but even if we assume it's, say, 25%, that still only amounts to a few hundred quid.
I'd guess they don't want to have to go to the time and hassle of issuing county court proceedings any more than you want to have to defend them. Tell them you'll forfeit your deposit and let them decide whether to take it further. If they won't let it drop, offer them a bit more to settle it on commercial terms.
Instead, their remedy would be a claim in damages. The measure of the loss is not the total value of the contract but the profit element that they would have made had they been able to complete it. I have no idea what profit margin they work to but even if we assume it's, say, 25%, that still only amounts to a few hundred quid.
I'd guess they don't want to have to go to the time and hassle of issuing county court proceedings any more than you want to have to defend them. Tell them you'll forfeit your deposit and let them decide whether to take it further. If they won't let it drop, offer them a bit more to settle it on commercial terms.
????? Its not only the profit element, its the cost of manufacture too. The margin (profit) may be very small compared to the cost of the product.Furthermore with a tailor made product such as this the Claimant may not be able to sell the door on. His claim would be cost of product plus profit. If that is not the total value of the contract what is?
Issuing a county court claim has never been easier or more straightforward. The claimant will win any claim IMHO.
jamesuk28 said:
????? Its not only the profit element, its the cost of manufacture too. The margin (profit) may be very small compared to the cost of the product.Furthermore with a tailor made product such as this the Claimant may not be able to sell the door on. His claim would be cost of product plus profit. If that is not the total value of the contract what is?
True - but only upto a point.
It depends on whether the company can prove that it has already started to manufacture the doors/windows to fulfil the OP's order. If it hasn't, it doesn't have any costs of manufacture. Given that a party alleging breach of contract is under a duty to mitigate its own loss, it would not be able to recover those costs of manufacturing if it then proceeded to incur them after the OP had indicated his intention to no longer be bound by the contract.
Admittedly, I typed my answer after skimming through the OP's post and on the assumption that the company would not have manufactured the units yet. if they have already started work then, yes, I would accept that costs incurred to the point of cancellation should be recoverable, if the company can't use them to fulfil another order.
madleee said:
Let get away from the idea of 'door' it infers a front domestic door.
It is a French Patio door unit which will be made to measure.
It is a French Patio door unit which will be made to measure.
For the purposes of this thread it has to be easier to call it a "door" rather than the "made to measure French patio door unit"
Anyway there is no such thing as a "French patio door", it is either a patio door or set of French doors. Perhaps if you spent a little more time concentrating on the wording you would not be in this situation.
madlee said:
Thanks for your words
No problem.
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