Inheritance tax question
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Can't help on that one.
No worries, not important - can find out at home. Eric Mc said:
It really is a queation of the Revenue moving the goal posts whilst the match is still on. What's more, some of the revised trust legislation is retrospective so they may go back and recover tax previously assumed legitimately avoided in what had been a perferctly legal trust set-up.
Yes, that's what the solicitor involved is concerned about...there's a lot of things changing soon (for instance EPAs -> LPAs...get your EPA done now if you want one is the advice at her place). Was just one of those odd conversations. She couldn't say specifically what was wrong with my plan, other than "it wouldn't work" - which although partly true (I don't think it would), I think it *could* be possibly, just not on such a large scale.
tigger1 said:
thewave said:
Eric Mc said:
The executor or solictor handling the deceased's estate.
Would a 'friendly' solicitor be useful?
They don't exist - seriously, 14 years max' in prison for money laundering, so solicitors are tighter than a ducks ass when it comes to dodgy tax issues.
The original conversation was just something that I was discussing with a solicitor who is looking at the different trusts they can set-up for a client with ~£8M estate, so the annual allowances mean squat. Obviously some spouse allowance etc, but I was trying to be a bit more "creative".
IANAL, obviously. And therefore I wouldn't suggest trying to defraud HMRC in any way....9 inches and all that.
You're damn right friendly solicitors don't exist, I got wiped out by one Monday night playing 6-a-side, vicious sod!
On a serious note, an £8m estate is a whole different kettle of fish, £3k sums here and there are not going to make a dent at all in that, and when they 'pass on' due to the sums involved I would presume it's more likey to come under scrutiny? (Although I don't know). When they have that kind of money, surely they can afford a very good solicitor to sort it.
As a note, reduced charge on 'gifts' within seven years of death are as follows:-
Years before death 0-3 3-4 4-5 5-6 6-7
% of death charge 100 80 60 40 20
(For 2007)
present company excepted of course 
Tiggsy said:
to answer the original question....
can you give money away the lie about it if you die within 7 years - no
if you did would you get away with it - possible
if you were caught - tax evasion
does it happen - all the time i expect
Tiggs (IHT consultant)
can you give money away the lie about it if you die within 7 years - no
if you did would you get away with it - possible
if you were caught - tax evasion
does it happen - all the time i expect
Tiggs (IHT consultant)
Yeah, but it wasn't "giving it away", the idea was that if you were to "legitimateiy" gamble it, but lose - and somebody you knew happened to win...well, which law(s) would be broken?
frazer guest said:
tigger1 said:
Ok, completely hypothetical.
Parent wants to give child large cash gift prior to death.
Would it be a problem, legally, for both parent and child to "collude", in losing and winning a bet (on Betfair say), so that money passes from one to the other?
I know that this is probably illegal, but in reality, is it traceable?
Just the product of a drunk conversation about tax.
Parent wants to give child large cash gift prior to death.
Would it be a problem, legally, for both parent and child to "collude", in losing and winning a bet (on Betfair say), so that money passes from one to the other?
I know that this is probably illegal, but in reality, is it traceable?
Just the product of a drunk conversation about tax.
do you know what, that is a fantastic idea. if i may just tweak it a little?
father, son and mate of son go into a casino. all three go into the cardroom to play cash poker. father loses money to mate of son, mate of son then loses the same amount of money to son. jobs done.
so long as it does not exceed £4999.99 in one 24 hour period, or £9999.99 in a week, it will not get recorded under money laundering laws, although in reality, these laws arnt enforced in cardrooms, just on the gaming tables.
Hmmm....interesting.
Espescially as the limits for gifts is c.7k. per year or something. This way you could "dispose" of 50k in a month, although it may be wise for the "son" in the situation to hold quite a lot of money as cash due to the obvious traceability if 50k moves from one account to another in a month.
frazer guest said:
tigger1 said:
frazer guest said:
tigger1 said:
Ok, completely hypothetical.
Parent wants to give child large cash gift prior to death.
Would it be a problem, legally, for both parent and child to "collude", in losing and winning a bet (on Betfair say), so that money passes from one to the other?
I know that this is probably illegal, but in reality, is it traceable?
Just the product of a drunk conversation about tax.
Parent wants to give child large cash gift prior to death.
Would it be a problem, legally, for both parent and child to "collude", in losing and winning a bet (on Betfair say), so that money passes from one to the other?
I know that this is probably illegal, but in reality, is it traceable?
Just the product of a drunk conversation about tax.
do you know what, that is a fantastic idea. if i may just tweak it a little?
father, son and mate of son go into a casino. all three go into the cardroom to play cash poker. father loses money to mate of son, mate of son then loses the same amount of money to son. jobs done.
so long as it does not exceed £4999.99 in one 24 hour period, or £9999.99 in a week, it will not get recorded under money laundering laws, although in reality, these laws arnt enforced in cardrooms, just on the gaming tables.
Hmmm....interesting.
Espescially as the limits for gifts is c.7k. per year or something. This way you could "dispose" of 50k in a month, although it may be wise for the "son" in the situation to hold quite a lot of money as cash due to the obvious traceability if 50k moves from one account to another in a month.
There is a way around that. before the son leaves the casino, son exchanges cash, (pound notes), for chips, (casino money). son then takes those chips to another casino in the same group, (gala etc), where he asks for a winners cheaqe.
Lads, I think we're onto something.
I'll bet 
anyone who asks for regular winners cheques gets heavily monitored. The money laundering requirements on casinii are tight. And they'll do it for their own purposes. They only pretend to like winners.
A friend has an on-line gambling business and there are all kinds of checks to see who is losing to who.
Simon.
anyone who asks for regular winners cheques gets heavily monitored. The money laundering requirements on casinii are tight. And they'll do it for their own purposes. They only pretend to like winners. A friend has an on-line gambling business and there are all kinds of checks to see who is losing to who.
Simon.
Eric Mc said:
It looks to me that this scheme is based on the premise, not on whether it is legal or not, but rather on the liklehood of being found out.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just to (again!) point out, I'm not intending to do this, nor does anyone I know plan to - its just the result of an over the pub table conversation, a lot like the "if I were to murder somebody, this is how I'd do it" type convo's!
frazer guest said:
tigger1 said:
Eric Mc said:
It looks to me that this scheme is based on the premise, not on whether it is legal or not, but rather on the liklehood of being found out.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just to (again!) point out, I'm not intending to do this, nor does anyone I know plan to - its just the result of an over the pub table conversation, a lot like the "if I were to murder somebody, this is how I'd do it" type convo's!
ok. but if you do, you'd better take someone with you who has inside knowledge of how these places work, the rules and procedures, the money laundering laws etc.
of course that person would expect a small cut.
feel free to PM me through my profile.
If you need an 'international man of mystery' and you dont know how to contact one. Try PH, the home of the underworld...The run onto the moors early in the morning before anyone else is up now has a different slant....
frazer guest said:
tigger1 said:
Eric Mc said:
It looks to me that this scheme is based on the premise, not on whether it is legal or not, but rather on the liklehood of being found out.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just because a crime is clever, complicated and hard to detect doesn't make it legal.
Just to (again!) point out, I'm not intending to do this, nor does anyone I know plan to - its just the result of an over the pub table conversation, a lot like the "if I were to murder somebody, this is how I'd do it" type convo's!
ok. but if you do, you'd better take someone with you who has inside knowledge of how these places work, the rules and procedures, the money laundering laws etc.
of course that person would expect a small cut.
feel free to PM me through my profile.
Hypothetically, you'd be the first to know.
Only problem with the casino method is that if you can only move up to £10k per week, then transferring an amount like £8m would take about 15 years.
So you've got a choice of:
(a)just giving the money away and then hoping you live seven years and thus paying no tax
(b) having to live 15 years in order to pull it off, risking going to prison and being fined enormous amounts if you're caught .. and the same risk hanging over the head of your children for years to come
So you've got a choice of:
(a)just giving the money away and then hoping you live seven years and thus paying no tax
(b) having to live 15 years in order to pull it off, risking going to prison and being fined enormous amounts if you're caught .. and the same risk hanging over the head of your children for years to come
ATG said:
Only problem with the casino method is that if you can only move up to £10k per week, then transferring an amount like £8m would take about 15 years.
So you've got a choice of:
(a)just giving the money away and then hoping you live seven years and thus paying no tax
(b) having to live 15 years in order to pull it off, risking going to prison and being fined enormous amounts if you're caught .. and the same risk hanging over the head of your children for years to come
So you've got a choice of:
(a)just giving the money away and then hoping you live seven years and thus paying no tax
(b) having to live 15 years in order to pull it off, risking going to prison and being fined enormous amounts if you're caught .. and the same risk hanging over the head of your children for years to come
Yes, it'd be no good for £8M, but with that kind of amount I wouldn't care, but say I wished to give £20k each to a few of my children (I have none, yet, all very hypothetical, it really *was8 just pub talk!) - this could be done in a month or so, rather than a period of years.
Didn't say it was a perfect plan!
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