Foxtons Estate Agents

[xxplod]

Any PHers dealt with them? We had them out to value our house. Valued it literally tens of thousands higher than anyone else. Wanted 2.25% commission. Gave it all the spiel about "London buyers.... relocating....yadda...."

We didn't go with them and we've now had several calls, very agressive, demanding to know whether we've had offers, why we didn't go with them etc... Their pitch seems to be, if they achieved the daft price they suggest marketing it at, it's worth paying 2.25%. All this when a house round the corner from us on with Foxtons is priced £50K too high and hasn't sold for months!

[rallycross]

but only a loon would invite Foxtons into their own home

[sleep envy]

xxplod said:

We didn't go with them and we've now had several calls, very agressive, demanding to know whether we've had offers, why we didn't go with them etc... Their pitch seems to be, if they achieved the daft price they suggest marketing it at, it's worth paying 2.25%. All this when a house round the corner from us on with Foxtons is priced £50K too high and hasn't sold for months!

can't speculate on the other house but ask them for details of similar houses that they've sold in your road to see if their valuation is correct

alternatively just say 'chop chop' to them and slam the phone down

[Frik]

Foxtons overvaluing homes and using aggressive sales techniques?

Surely shum mishtake?

[nail_it]

www.nethouseprices.com/

Use this site to find out recent sales & prices.
Then go back to Foxtons & ask them which ones they sold.

[MitchT]

There was a great documentary about them on BBC2. If you'd seen it everything would make sense!

[Zigs]

I just bought through them, have organise some voodoo buddies to get vengence...

[jamesuk28]

MitchT said:

There was a great documentary about them on BBC2. If you'd seen it everything would make sense!

Yeah suprised they are still in business, get a copy of the documentary, I doubt you will instruct them after seeing it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4

Edited by jamesuk28 on Tuesday 6th March 21:36

[sleep envy]

you think they're the only ones up to tricks?

[jamesuk28]

sleep envy said:

you think they're the only ones up to tricks?

No but as one of the biggest we expect better. EA's are all the same in my book. Plus the fact they got caught shafting people.

[audidoody]

Firm of nasty. arrogant, obnoxious wnkrs. Pulled their advertising from my local paper Ham & High a few years back because the rag had the balls to report about the backhanders the staff were giving to traffic wardens not to give them tickets for parking their shitty little green Minis on the pavement outside. Tossers. .

[blanc]

We sold our flat through them when we left London.

They valued it high but charged more commission. They then worked long hours 6 days a week and sold it in 2 weeks.

We were happy although I wouldn't want to be buying through them.

[justinp1]

xxplod said:

Any PHers dealt with them? We had them out to value our house. Valued it literally tens of thousands higher than anyone else. Wanted 2.25% commission. Gave it all the spiel about "London buyers.... relocating....yadda...."

We didn't go with them and we've now had several calls, very agressive, demanding to know whether we've had offers, why we didn't go with them etc... Their pitch seems to be, if they achieved the daft price they suggest marketing it at, it's worth paying 2.25%. All this when a house round the corner from us on with Foxtons is priced £50K too high and hasn't sold for months!

Its important to look at *their* motives here and then match them to yours with a counter offer. I shall explain.

Lets take two estate agents. Agent A comes to your house, and tells you that to get the best price you should tidy some stuff up and spend a couple of grand doing this. After this he wants to market your property at £395,000.

Agent B comes to you house and tells you how many people want to move into the area, how great your house is and how you should be aiming to get £439,000.

Agent A may have been the more honest and realistic one, but Agent B is the one which makes us happy, excited and is going to make us £40,000 richer than we thought we were!


Fast forward three to six months to a year later, interest was poor to start with but is starting to pick up, one of two things can happen:

1) As house prices have risen anyway, the overpriced point of your property is becoming more realistic anyway

2) If you have not had a sniff, they will convince you to drop the price to £395,000


So what is the outcome: You sell your house through Agent B but for pretty much the same price as what Agent A recommended, and what else has happened - in stead of paying Agent A 1.5% of £395,000 we are paying an extra 0.75% on the promise that we would get more cash to cover the costs - an empty one.

But what else has happened? We could have spent the couple of grand tidying up as Agent A said, with the realistic price and the house would have shifted 6 months ago. But now as prices have risen by 5% over that six months the property range we were looking at has increased in cost by £30-£40,000!

All this seems obvious, but it is human nature to see the pound signs in front of our eyes and fall for the sales pitch. And what are the motives for other agents? Well Agent A didnt get the job, but B did - so thats they way it needs to be.

All that has happened is that Agent B has 'snared' you. And if they have to drop their price - they knew it was unrealistic to start with, they were prepared - but in any case their dropping you by tens of thousands only costs them a few hundred quid off their commission of several thousands, worth it to get it sold and get a new propertly in its place.


So, what do you do about it when you are 'sold to' this way? But the ball back in their court, and you will see how honest they are being. And be honest with them. Turn back their deal like this: they can have their high percentage as long as it is sold for at least X before X date. If it is not the percentage lowers as time goes on and as the selling price lowers.

*Then* you will see how honest they have been with their assessments and their motives.

Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 7th March 10:58

[jamesuk28]

Another point. While some may argue that foxtons have the sellers best interests at heart, ie trying to get top dollar for your property, ask yourself this how many buyers when seeing a Foxtons board or details run a mile?

[Psychobert]

Can't comment about this firm, but I have been at the receiving end of what I reckon to be pretty shoddy practice. I've just completed on the purchase of a flat which I rented fromt he vendor directly for a few months in advance of the purchase. There were problems on both sides, but I was in direct contact with the chap and as we kept each other well informed and I covered his costs, (while having a place to live), all was ok,

However, the agents unaware of this rang both of us on more than one occasion to chase things up. Fair enough, but the vendor was told I was interested in looking at other properties and I was told that the vendor was about to start showing other people around. Absolute bo11ocks.

When I got the call to say we'd completed and the (spare) keys were in the office I turned up to pick them up only to be told that they weren't. They said they would chase so I rang back and as they'd not done anything, gave them an earful about the whole thing only for them to put the phone down on me. :rant: Reminds me, I owe them a shitty letter.. Won't do any good, but might make me feel better, (especially as a colleague knows the owner of the firm and it'll go straight to his home address).

[superlightr]

justinp1 said:

Its important to look at *their* motives here and then match them to yours with a counter offer. I shall explain.

Lets take two estate agents. Agent A comes to your house, and tells you that to get the best price you should tidy some stuff up and spend a couple of grand doing this. After this he wants to market your property at £395,000.

Agent B comes to you house and tells you how many people want to move into the area, how great your house is and how you should be aiming to get £439,000.

Agent A may have been the more honest and realistic one, but Agent B is the one which makes us happy, excited and is going to make us £40,000 richer than we thought we were!


Fast forward three to six months to a year later, interest was poor to start with but is starting to pick up, one of two things can happen:

1) As house prices have risen anyway, the overpriced point of your property is becoming more realistic anyway

2) If you have not had a sniff, they will convince you to drop the price to £395,000


So what is the outcome: You sell your house through Agent B but for pretty much the same price as what Agent A recommended, and what else has happened - in stead of paying Agent A 1.5% of £395,000 we are paying an extra 0.75% on the promise that we would get more cash to cover the costs - an empty one.

But what else has happened? We could have spent the couple of grand tidying up as Agent A said, with the realistic price and the house would have shifted 6 months ago. But now as prices have risen by 5% over that six months the property range we were looking at has increased in cost by £30-£40,000!

All this seems obvious, but it is human nature to see the pound signs in front of our eyes and fall for the sales pitch. And what are the motives for other agents? Well Agent A didnt get the job, but B did - so thats they way it needs to be.

All that has happened is that Agent B has 'snared' you. And if they have to drop their price - they knew it was unrealistic to start with, they were prepared - but in any case their dropping you by tens of thousands only costs them a few hundred quid off their commission of several thousands, worth it to get it sold and get a new propertly in its place.


So, what do you do about it when you are 'sold to' this way? But the ball back in their court, and you will see how honest they are being. And be honest with them. Turn back their deal like this: they can have their high percentage as long as it is sold for at least X before X date. If it is not the percentage lowers as time goes on and as the selling price lowers.

*Then* you will see how honest they have been with their assessments and their motives.

Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 7th March 10:58

Very good post. Spot on. The only difference I would sugest would be to give them x weeks at whatever price they said, but also tell them if they havnt sold it that date you will move it to another agent who may well have given a more realistic fugure.

[justinp1]

superlightr said:

justinp1 said:

Its important to look at *their* motives here and then match them to yours with a counter offer. I shall explain.

Lets take two estate agents. Agent A comes to your house, and tells you that to get the best price you should tidy some stuff up and spend a couple of grand doing this. After this he wants to market your property at £395,000.

Agent B comes to you house and tells you how many people want to move into the area, how great your house is and how you should be aiming to get £439,000.

Agent A may have been the more honest and realistic one, but Agent B is the one which makes us happy, excited and is going to make us £40,000 richer than we thought we were!


Fast forward three to six months to a year later, interest was poor to start with but is starting to pick up, one of two things can happen:

1) As house prices have risen anyway, the overpriced point of your property is becoming more realistic anyway

2) If you have not had a sniff, they will convince you to drop the price to £395,000


So what is the outcome: You sell your house through Agent B but for pretty much the same price as what Agent A recommended, and what else has happened - in stead of paying Agent A 1.5% of £395,000 we are paying an extra 0.75% on the promise that we would get more cash to cover the costs - an empty one.

But what else has happened? We could have spent the couple of grand tidying up as Agent A said, with the realistic price and the house would have shifted 6 months ago. But now as prices have risen by 5% over that six months the property range we were looking at has increased in cost by £30-£40,000!

All this seems obvious, but it is human nature to see the pound signs in front of our eyes and fall for the sales pitch. And what are the motives for other agents? Well Agent A didnt get the job, but B did - so thats they way it needs to be.

All that has happened is that Agent B has 'snared' you. And if they have to drop their price - they knew it was unrealistic to start with, they were prepared - but in any case their dropping you by tens of thousands only costs them a few hundred quid off their commission of several thousands, worth it to get it sold and get a new propertly in its place.


So, what do you do about it when you are 'sold to' this way? But the ball back in their court, and you will see how honest they are being. And be honest with them. Turn back their deal like this: they can have their high percentage as long as it is sold for at least X before X date. If it is not the percentage lowers as time goes on and as the selling price lowers.

*Then* you will see how honest they have been with their assessments and their motives.

Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 7th March 10:58

Very good post. Spot on. The only difference I would sugest would be to give them x weeks at whatever price they said, but also tell them if they havnt sold it that date you will move it to another agent who may well have given a more realistic fugure.

The only problem with this is dealing with an 'agressive' company like this is that they will take that comment as a pinch of salt as they will assume (maybe rightly) that at the end of their time, they will be able to string you along for a further period with (probably made up) promises that there is plenty of interest and a couple of people seriously interested. Of course these wont materialise and you will sign up for another 3 months at the same rate.

If you define the ratio of risks and costs for both parties before you start, when you start negotiting you will find out exactly how much the salesman is willing to back up his 'promises' with his own cash.

For example, this would have to be thought out more, but off the cuff - If you set their rate at say 2%, but with a drop of 0.1% for every month until completion, but with a 0.5% bonus if the sale price reaches a certain figure by a certain date, or a 1% bonus to reach a higher figure by this date - you will *then* get a true assessment of realistic value - and also value for their commission!

Then you will be able to read between the lines more as the time taken to sell the house and the final sellng price hits them in their pocket - and like any business will be their prime motivator to get it sold!

[Psychobert]

justinp1 said:

So, what do you do about it when you are 'sold to' this way? But the ball back in their court, and you will see how honest they are being. And be honest with them. Turn back their deal like this: they can have their high percentage as long as it is sold for at least X before X date. If it is not the percentage lowers as time goes on and as the selling price lowers.

*Then* you will see how honest they have been with their assessments and their motives.

Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 7th March 10:58

Is that legally defensible? A while ago I had a property just about to go up for sale when I changed my mind and kept the place for rental. The agent that I'd been talking to about the sale called me up and got very shirty with me, basically saying that I'd owe them money if I sold within 12 months irrespective of who it was through. The guy hadn't got his facts straight as noone told him I'd not signed the contract, but would be interested in some sort of sliding scale in the future if thats legal..

[360stimo]

xxplod said:

Any PHers dealt with them? We had them out to value our house. Valued it literally tens of thousands higher than anyone else. Wanted 2.25% commission. Gave it all the spiel about "London buyers.... relocating....yadda...."

We didn't go with them and we've now had several calls, very agressive, demanding to know whether we've had offers, why we didn't go with them etc... Their pitch seems to be, if they achieved the daft price they suggest marketing it at, it's worth paying 2.25%. All this when a house round the corner from us on with Foxtons is priced £50K too high and hasn't sold for months!

A guy i do a lot of property work with, used to work for Foxtons, for a long time. He told me that if you want to sell your house quickly and get a good price, Foxtons are the ones to use, but NEVER buy through them. Over valuing a house is a tactic they use to get the best price, although it can take time, especially if you have astute buyers around.

Property in London at the moment is stupid. I had foxtons value my house and thought they were mad when i got their quote, only to find that the two other estate agents i invited round gave me the exact same figure.
My neighbour just put a £40k conservatory on the back of his and is now selling. When i saw the asking price i laughed out loud. It was sold yesterday. Its the exact same as my house, but with the new conservatory. His sold for £120k more than they reckon mine is worth.

Guess what im doing before i sell !!!!!!!!!

[justinp1]

Psychobert said:

justinp1 said:

So, what do you do about it when you are 'sold to' this way? But the ball back in their court, and you will see how honest they are being. And be honest with them. Turn back their deal like this: they can have their high percentage as long as it is sold for at least X before X date. If it is not the percentage lowers as time goes on and as the selling price lowers.

*Then* you will see how honest they have been with their assessments and their motives.

Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 7th March 10:58

Is that legally defensible? A while ago I had a property just about to go up for sale when I changed my mind and kept the place for rental. The agent that I'd been talking to about the sale called me up and got very shirty with me, basically saying that I'd owe them money if I sold within 12 months irrespective of who it was through. The guy hadn't got his facts straight as noone told him I'd not signed the contract, but would be interested in some sort of sliding scale in the future if thats legal..

Anything is legal as long it doesnt break a law. (Obvious non-relevant exclusions excepted for the legal types out there...)

If you agree to use the services of an estate agent, you are deemed to be under their standard terms unless of course you are not and can prove otherwise. You can of course decide not to agree to some of their terms, and tell them about it and amend the contract before signing it.

Of course, they may tell you to get packing, but that is their prerogative and would be representative of their true colours. It could be argued that in most cases that although the estate agent gets paid by the vendor, technically they are working for their commission, to get the sale through and thus they are really working on behalf of the buyer - unless the offer is ridiculous you will never hear an agent tell their 'client' to reject on offer!

The industry is such though that the agencies want it all their way, and unless you are willing to shop around for a good deal, and negotiate they will get it. The kind of deal I am talking about probably wont be able to agreed to by one of the 'front-line' agents and probably someone with more authority will need to agree it.

It is interesting though that in business these type of contracts are common - the construction industry for example where fees drop for going over budget or time, but it seems that in 'consumerland' an individual does not have the experience to know what is possible and assumes that they are buying a 'product' with fixed specifications.

Most businesses are willing to negotiate. The rule of thumb is the more cut-throat the industry the more they will be ready for it - estate agency is a perfect example!