Car restorer owes me money
Discussion
Hi All
I have a problem that needs action.
A couple of years ago I imported a car from the US. I made arrangements with the owner of a specialist garage in the Woking area to handle the importation, renovation and eventual registration of the car. I needed this one stop shop service as I live abroad. Anyway over the years the renovation ground to a complete halt as it became obvious, to others, that the garage were not capable of finishing the project. Many promises were made and broken concerning the finishing and registering the car. Lies were made to cover up for the previous lies and eventually even my patience wore thin and when I challenged the owner of the garage, he admitted that he had been telling me lies for the past year. Because I only visit the UK at odd times throughout the year and because my contract for further work abroad had been extended I was perhaps not as pushy as I should have been in insisting that the agreed work be completed. Anyway, I removed the car from the premises, all amicably, because the owner had realised that the work was beyond his capabilities. It was then that I discovered that parts that I had paid for and paid for fitting had been removed from the car. Challenging the owner he agreed to refund me the invoiced amount. Sums were agreed on and the owner signed in agreement about £6,000. The car is now with an engine specialist who states that the modifications made by the original restorers was totally inadequate and so far I have spent thousands of Pounds completing the job.
Many promises were made to refund the money and on one occasion I even received a cheque for the full amount. The cheque subsequently bounced and I took action through the HMCS money claim on line. Judgment was issued on the 28/12/2006 and a warrant Issued on the 29/12/2006 for £5,000 as this is the maximum amount for the first warrant. The Bailiff has contacted the defendant on 2 occasions and a cheque for the full amount was promised on both occasions. No money has been forthcoming. As far as I can ascertain this procedure can go on for years especially if the defendant has no saleable goods that the Bailiff can auction.
Has anybody got any ideas on how I can speed up this process and put an end to this very sorry chapter in my life. I have considered reporting the theft of the parts to the police but what more can they do?
Any advice would be appreciated and if any PH'ers in the legal profession felt that they could help I would be happy to become a client. Please PM.
I have a problem that needs action.
A couple of years ago I imported a car from the US. I made arrangements with the owner of a specialist garage in the Woking area to handle the importation, renovation and eventual registration of the car. I needed this one stop shop service as I live abroad. Anyway over the years the renovation ground to a complete halt as it became obvious, to others, that the garage were not capable of finishing the project. Many promises were made and broken concerning the finishing and registering the car. Lies were made to cover up for the previous lies and eventually even my patience wore thin and when I challenged the owner of the garage, he admitted that he had been telling me lies for the past year. Because I only visit the UK at odd times throughout the year and because my contract for further work abroad had been extended I was perhaps not as pushy as I should have been in insisting that the agreed work be completed. Anyway, I removed the car from the premises, all amicably, because the owner had realised that the work was beyond his capabilities. It was then that I discovered that parts that I had paid for and paid for fitting had been removed from the car. Challenging the owner he agreed to refund me the invoiced amount. Sums were agreed on and the owner signed in agreement about £6,000. The car is now with an engine specialist who states that the modifications made by the original restorers was totally inadequate and so far I have spent thousands of Pounds completing the job.
Many promises were made to refund the money and on one occasion I even received a cheque for the full amount. The cheque subsequently bounced and I took action through the HMCS money claim on line. Judgment was issued on the 28/12/2006 and a warrant Issued on the 29/12/2006 for £5,000 as this is the maximum amount for the first warrant. The Bailiff has contacted the defendant on 2 occasions and a cheque for the full amount was promised on both occasions. No money has been forthcoming. As far as I can ascertain this procedure can go on for years especially if the defendant has no saleable goods that the Bailiff can auction.
Has anybody got any ideas on how I can speed up this process and put an end to this very sorry chapter in my life. I have considered reporting the theft of the parts to the police but what more can they do?
Any advice would be appreciated and if any PH'ers in the legal profession felt that they could help I would be happy to become a client. Please PM.
Edited by jim hobbs on Wednesday 7th March 03:50
Hello, sorry to hear of your situation.
1. If the garage issued a cheque that bounced he may have been trading while insolvent, with the knowledge he could not trade the business back into a solvent position. This, if the case, is a criminal offence.
2. Do you still have the cheque? if so we may be able to freexe the account.
3. As the debt is over £750 we can issue a statutory demand and go for either a winding up order against the LTD company, or file for bankruptcy in the case of a sole trader.
We are currently collecting a debt for a client in a similair situation.
PM me if you need any further advice.
1. If the garage issued a cheque that bounced he may have been trading while insolvent, with the knowledge he could not trade the business back into a solvent position. This, if the case, is a criminal offence.
2. Do you still have the cheque? if so we may be able to freexe the account.
3. As the debt is over £750 we can issue a statutory demand and go for either a winding up order against the LTD company, or file for bankruptcy in the case of a sole trader.
We are currently collecting a debt for a client in a similair situation.
PM me if you need any further advice.
Sole trader or Ltd Company? You can't touch the tools of his trade but he may own a house which you can put a charge on. A stat demand is a cheap alternative and most debtors don't ignore. Service on a ltd company registered office couldn't be simpler. Saves chasing an evasive debtor.
Boosted.
Boosted.
jamesuk28 said:
Bailiffs are a waste of time in my experience. Go for the jugular
I'd clarify that to say court bailiffs are usually a waste of time. Private bailiffs can be quite good. Court bailiffs only work fixed hours and you virtually have to do the job for them. I once gave them a map plus I stipulated the time to call. They went to the wrong address at the wrong time!
I'd do the stat demand thing first, find if he has assetts and then go for bankruptcy if the assetts are unsecured.
Boosted.
Hi boosted ls1 and jamesuk28
Thanks for the interest.
Please excuse my ignorance here, I do not live in the UK nor have I lived there for quite a few years.
Yes I still have the original cheque that bounced.
What do you mean by:
1. A statutory demand.
2. Service on a ltd company registered office?
How would I go about getting one?
Would it be best to use a UK solicitor?
Thanks for the interest.
Please excuse my ignorance here, I do not live in the UK nor have I lived there for quite a few years.
Yes I still have the original cheque that bounced.
What do you mean by:
1. A statutory demand.
2. Service on a ltd company registered office?
How would I go about getting one?
Would it be best to use a UK solicitor?
Jim, It's important to find out who you are dealing with. Is your contract with and your Judgement against an individual or a company?
If an individual, research whether he owns property and go for a Charging Order on it. If a Limited Company then a Bankruptcy Petition is your best bet although you may have to throw some more money at the problem to get anywhere.
As others have said, Bailiffs are a waste of time but Sheriffs are more persistent - Find one local to the debtor and talk it over with them. There are some circumstances where a Sheriff can take 'walking posession' of goods at the premises and for a garage proprietor, with customer's cars all over the place, your man will be bricking it. Of course it is not difficult for the car's real owner to prove ownership but it would be so embarrasing for the debtor that he would pay up.
I'm no expert but this may be some fuel for onward research.
If an individual, research whether he owns property and go for a Charging Order on it. If a Limited Company then a Bankruptcy Petition is your best bet although you may have to throw some more money at the problem to get anywhere.
As others have said, Bailiffs are a waste of time but Sheriffs are more persistent - Find one local to the debtor and talk it over with them. There are some circumstances where a Sheriff can take 'walking posession' of goods at the premises and for a garage proprietor, with customer's cars all over the place, your man will be bricking it. Of course it is not difficult for the car's real owner to prove ownership but it would be so embarrasing for the debtor that he would pay up.
I'm no expert but this may be some fuel for onward research.
52classic said:
Jim, It's important to find out who you are dealing with. Is your contract with and your Judgement against an individual or a company?
If an individual, research whether he owns property and go for a Charging Order on it. If a Limited Company then a Bankruptcy Petition is your best bet although you may have to throw some more money at the problem to get anywhere.
As others have said, Bailiffs are a waste of time but Sheriffs are more persistent - Find one local to the debtor and talk it over with them. There are some circumstances where a Sheriff can take 'walking posession' of goods at the premises and for a garage proprietor, with customer's cars all over the place, your man will be bricking it. Of course it is not difficult for the car's real owner to prove ownership but it would be so embarrasing for the debtor that he would pay up.
I'm no expert but this may be some fuel for onward research.
Without a court order Bailiffs are virtually powerless. If an individual, research whether he owns property and go for a Charging Order on it. If a Limited Company then a Bankruptcy Petition is your best bet although you may have to throw some more money at the problem to get anywhere.
As others have said, Bailiffs are a waste of time but Sheriffs are more persistent - Find one local to the debtor and talk it over with them. There are some circumstances where a Sheriff can take 'walking posession' of goods at the premises and for a garage proprietor, with customer's cars all over the place, your man will be bricking it. Of course it is not difficult for the car's real owner to prove ownership but it would be so embarrasing for the debtor that he would pay up.
I'm no expert but this may be some fuel for onward research.
Charging orders can be a good long term bet. Interest can be accruing until the debtor tries to sell the property. However placing a charging order will cost a few £ for a solicitor to attend the hearing, + all other secured creditors will lodge the usual objections to a further charge being placed over the asset (house)
A land registry search on the debtors property will show what charges are already in place.
A statutory demand is a legal remedy that is served on the debtor by a process server (private investigator) It gives the debtor a max of 28 days to pay the debt. Can be issued where the debt is not disputed and is over £750. A stat demand if not satisfied will lead to either a bankruptcy or winding up petition. Cost to issue the demand around £150 + process server fees. Winding up order will set you back around £1000 including legals.
As far as Statutory demands go, Individual debtor = poss bankruptcy
Company = winding up petition
That said if either have no assets then the above is a waste of time.
If however as I stated in my previous post they issued cheques which bounced they may well have traded while insolvent. The threat of prosecution for this usually focuses the mind into reaching an accetable conclusion.
http://www.geminidebtrecovery.com for details on court fees etc.
Edited by jamesuk28 on Tuesday 13th March 21:36
Edited by jamesuk28 on Sunday 6th April 11:20
^ What he said 
plus find out if the trader trades as an individual, partner or ltd company. Have you any of his stationary? A statutory demand isn't much more then a very worrying letter demanding full payment which also sets out the nature of the debt etc. Good thing about the demand is it's a cheap method and a precurser towards bankruptcy proceedings. Get a demand served and the debtor has to either pay up, agree a settlement or dispute the debt. Either way, you get to see his position. If he does nothing then you can decide whether to issue bankruptcy proceedings. Legal agents can issue them for you and will charge less then a solicitor but do this properly.
If he's an individual then personal service is best but substituted service can be done via his letterbox once some basic enquiries have been done to establish he will receive his mail at that address. If a ltd company, the demand can be placed on the reception desk at the registered office address or even posted through the letterbox.
Boosted.
plus find out if the trader trades as an individual, partner or ltd company. Have you any of his stationary? A statutory demand isn't much more then a very worrying letter demanding full payment which also sets out the nature of the debt etc. Good thing about the demand is it's a cheap method and a precurser towards bankruptcy proceedings. Get a demand served and the debtor has to either pay up, agree a settlement or dispute the debt. Either way, you get to see his position. If he does nothing then you can decide whether to issue bankruptcy proceedings. Legal agents can issue them for you and will charge less then a solicitor but do this properly. If he's an individual then personal service is best but substituted service can be done via his letterbox once some basic enquiries have been done to establish he will receive his mail at that address. If a ltd company, the demand can be placed on the reception desk at the registered office address or even posted through the letterbox.
Boosted.
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