Discussion
Matt's subsequent post reveals more of the situation. So I think some pragmatism is called for. Clearly the company are very keen for Matt to work for them so he currently has a lot of negotiation leverage I would assume. Clearly Matt has some reservations about the company:
1) He doesn't want to be pigeon holed;
2) A suspicion that they won't offer other types of work;
3) He worked for the worst part of the company and he wants to move away from that;
With his current negotiation position (which looks good) I think Matt should meet the employer and tell them he'd love to work for them providing they can give him some assurances regarding his concerns. He should then request that these are added to the agreement. If the employer refuses then clearly Matt's concerns are justified. If the employer does agree then Matt's concerns have been allayed.
Like everything in life, a friendly and honest chat (cards face up) should resolve the issue in my opinion.
1) He doesn't want to be pigeon holed;
2) A suspicion that they won't offer other types of work;
3) He worked for the worst part of the company and he wants to move away from that;
With his current negotiation position (which looks good) I think Matt should meet the employer and tell them he'd love to work for them providing they can give him some assurances regarding his concerns. He should then request that these are added to the agreement. If the employer refuses then clearly Matt's concerns are justified. If the employer does agree then Matt's concerns have been allayed.
Like everything in life, a friendly and honest chat (cards face up) should resolve the issue in my opinion.
srebbe64 said:
Matt's subsequent post reveals more of the situation. So I think some pragmatism is called for. Clearly the company are very keen for Matt to work for them so he currently has a lot of negotiation leverage I would assume. Clearly Matt has some reservations about the company:
1) He doesn't want to be pigeon holed;
2) A suspicion that they won't offer other types of work;
3) He worked for the worst part of the company and he wants to move away from that;
With his current negotiation position (which looks good) I think Matt should meet the employer and tell them he'd love to work for them providing they can give him some assurances regarding his concerns. He should then request that these are added to the agreement. If the employer refuses then clearly Matt's concerns are justified. If the employer does agree then Matt's concerns have been allayed.
Like everything in life, a friendly and honest chat (cards face up) should resolve the issue in my opinion.
Rest assured Matt that the company will stick to any agreements you make with them.1) He doesn't want to be pigeon holed;
2) A suspicion that they won't offer other types of work;
3) He worked for the worst part of the company and he wants to move away from that;
With his current negotiation position (which looks good) I think Matt should meet the employer and tell them he'd love to work for them providing they can give him some assurances regarding his concerns. He should then request that these are added to the agreement. If the employer refuses then clearly Matt's concerns are justified. If the employer does agree then Matt's concerns have been allayed.
Like everything in life, a friendly and honest chat (cards face up) should resolve the issue in my opinion.
Until it suits them.
srebbe64 said:
Whatever!
ok thengive me your steer on this then
a couple of months ago I was interviewed 5 times for a job and was asked back a sixth time for the directors to rubber stamp the offer - I was dismayed that it took so long to get an offer that I turned it down thinking that the business would be too slow to react to critical decisions
recently I was offered an interview with another business as was told 3 days later I'd got the job - result! the package wasn't what was discussed but seeing as it was reasonably close to what I was looking for and the progression this job provides in my career more than made up for the shortfall
then the contract landed on my door mat this morning which isn't for the job I've been interviewed for - although the package is the same it's based on a 12 month review after which if I hit my targets I get promoted to the job I interviewed for
I've got a feeling I'm being slyly shafted to fill a hole with the prospect of promotion being a carrot to make me sign - has anyone actually been offered a contract with promotion to the post after 12 months and actually achieved it as I doubt there will be a vacancy after a year...
JustinP1 said:
Mattt said:
Sorry, didn't make it clear, it is a graduate position, and it is a year until I graduate. I worked for them on my industrial placement, and had a nightmare of a time, but told that it isn't the case everywhere - and colleagues have testified to this.
If that is the case, then it should be your own experience as to whether that is the best way forward.In either case, if you accept the job whether it is in a month or a years time then you are entering into a legally binding contract. That is should you decide to 'burn' them, they can seek damages in the same way you could should they decide to do the same to you!
My thoughts are although in effect they probably wont be sueing you - unless they are offering you some kind of sponsorship prior to employment, that I wouldnt string them along. If nothing else you will really be 'burning' a potential industy experience reference, which for a new graduate is the best thing going for you!
To get a job offer a year in advance is a great thing, and should take a lot of pressure off you later. I would take it. Should you dislike it whilst you are there you can take this up with them to see if things can change and if not you can always hand your notice in as a normal employee.
Take it, and go there. Do eighteen months and if you don't like it move.
DO NOT ACCEPT IT THEN NOT GO. BAD FORM. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
Plotloss said:
srebbe64 said:
Olf said:
srebbe64 said:
Whatever!
There are two types of people posting on this subject. Optimists and realists. I am firmly in the second camp. 
srebbe64 said:
Olf said:
srebbe64 said:
Olf said:
srebbe64 said:
Whatever!
There are two types of people posting on this subject. Optimists and realists. I am firmly in the second camp. sleep envy said:
srebbe64 said:
Whatever!
ok thengive me your steer on this then
a couple of months ago I was interviewed 5 times for a job and was asked back a sixth time for the directors to rubber stamp the offer - I was dismayed that it took so long to get an offer that I turned it down thinking that the business would be too slow to react to critical decisions
recently I was offered an interview with another business as was told 3 days later I'd got the job - result! the package wasn't what was discussed but seeing as it was reasonably close to what I was looking for and the progression this job provides in my career more than made up for the shortfall
then the contract landed on my door mat this morning which isn't for the job I've been interviewed for - although the package is the same it's based on a 12 month review after which if I hit my targets I get promoted to the job I interviewed for
I've got a feeling I'm being slyly shafted to fill a hole with the prospect of promotion being a carrot to make me sign - has anyone actually been offered a contract with promotion to the post after 12 months and actually achieved it as I doubt there will be a vacancy after a year...
sleep envy said:
sleep envy said:
srebbe64 said:
Whatever!
ok thengive me your steer on this then
a couple of months ago I was interviewed 5 times for a job and was asked back a sixth time for the directors to rubber stamp the offer - I was dismayed that it took so long to get an offer that I turned it down thinking that the business would be too slow to react to critical decisions
recently I was offered an interview with another business as was told 3 days later I'd got the job - result! the package wasn't what was discussed but seeing as it was reasonably close to what I was looking for and the progression this job provides in my career more than made up for the shortfall
then the contract landed on my door mat this morning which isn't for the job I've been interviewed for - although the package is the same it's based on a 12 month review after which if I hit my targets I get promoted to the job I interviewed for
I've got a feeling I'm being slyly shafted to fill a hole with the prospect of promotion being a carrot to make me sign - has anyone actually been offered a contract with promotion to the post after 12 months and actually achieved it as I doubt there will be a vacancy after a year...
I once had employee steal from me, therefore it's obvious that all employees steal from all employers all of the time. Thinking about it, I once had a crash in a green car therefore all green cars are obviously dangerous.
Or, perhaps I should be more intelligent and look at each issue on its merits. Matt does say that he feels the company is good and other employees have confirmed this. He also has some concerns and I suggested talking honestly to the company about this. Maybe my advice is wrong, in which case Matt is at liberty to do what he feels is best.
Olf said:
Justin,
If a company wishes to dispense of an employees services within the first 2 years of service for reasons of non-performance, business pressures or any other legal reason, what rights does the employee have to seek compensation or fight the severance?
The employee is protected by contract and employment law.If a company wishes to dispense of an employees services within the first 2 years of service for reasons of non-performance, business pressures or any other legal reason, what rights does the employee have to seek compensation or fight the severance?
Edited by Olf on Thursday 30th August 14:21
Contract law is a simple concept. The employee works for the employer to an agreed standard and the employee gets the ageed pay.
If the employee does not perform in their job then technically they are in breach of contract. However, whether they are there 2 years or not the employer still must fulfil a legally satisfactory procedure to help to rectify this or their own arrangements, whichever is more stringent.
Should the employee after the correct warnings and procedures still not perform to the agreed standard, or indeed have any other conduct issues which *legally* means that they are not fulfilling their contract then they can be dismissed.
However, if the employee is not given the correct warnings, and options to appeal etc, then they have the right to claim unfair dismissal. Case law actually support this not from day one of employement, but actually from the moment that employment is agreed. The 'legal culture' surrounding this is that there are even 'no win- no fee' companies taking cases on. In a legal sense and also a practical sense the law is stacked heavily toward the employee in almost every case.
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